Windage tray yes or no

[khschs]

Is a windage tray a worthwhile addition to a modified street engine?

[Ronnieroadster]

Simple answer is yes

[khschs]

I have looked at several designs from simple screens to elaborate designs that incorporate hinged doors etc. I intend to use the car as a street rod and I want it to be the best it can be. There is , however,a practical limit. To that end,I would appreciate some suggestions on designs that are known to function efficiently.
The engine is a 59A with a Merc crank and if it matters, a blower.
Keith

[Alaska Jim]

The simplest and easiest windage tray set-up is to use an oil pan and oil pump pick-up from a 49-51 Mercury. The pan has a windage tray of sorts, although no scrapers, and the oil pump pick-up is hooded and fits down into the "hole" in the pan and basically covers the pick- up opening of the deepest part of the sump. Anything else may have to be custom made, there probably is someone who makes a windage tray for a flathead, but I am not aware of it, I haven't had to build a flathead in several years.

[Jack E/NJ]

No.

[Pete]

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Originally Posted by khschs

Is a windage tray a worthwhile addition to a modified street engine?

Yes. It is very low cost hp.

[1952henry]

I think your answers from Ronnie Roadster and Pete would be bankable.

[Bored&Stroked]

The best way would be to create your own custom one that closely follows the crank/rod profiles and attaches to special main-cap studs/bolts. It would take a bit of work to get it done correctly, but it is "free" horsepower so to speak!

I have a Milodon "diamond scraper" version on a higher horsepower street 383 SBC that I custom built. It puts out 520 HP and consistently builds oil-pressure on the dyno - all the way up to 6400 RPM (my redline with hydraulic rollers). The screen really helps to reduce frothing and keep oil in the pan.

The dyno operator was very impressed with how the oil pressure held up after 20 dyno runs and it was obvious that the oil pump, windage tray, scraper and "kicked out" oil pan were all doing their jobs.

https://www.jegs.com/i/Moroso/710/22912/10002/-1

SBC Example:

https://www.jegs.com/i/Milodon/697/32270/10002/-1

Attached are the dyno stats.

Doc Dec 02, 2018, 09_14.pdf

[scooder]

Windage tray, crank scraper and a kick out, also pan volume increase also helps to lower windage. The longer the stroke the more this stuff helps.
Martin.

[Jack E/NJ]

>>>modified street engine?>>>


Still no. 8^)

[scooder]

"I want it to be the best it can be"
Sorry don't know what "Still no 8^) " means.
Martin.

[Phil Gillespie]

Could you briefly explain about a "windage tray" something I know nothing about.
Appreciate some info.
Phil NZ

[KiWinUS]

Originally Posted by Phil Gillespie

Could you briefly explain about a "windage tray" something I know nothing about.
Appreciate some info.
Phil NZ

A screen or louvered tray between crank rotating assembly and oil in sump.

[khschs]

Thanks for the input. It looks like I will have to fabricate my own. It doesn't look too difficult (famous last words). I do wonder about the clearance between the tray and the crank/rod rotating assembly. Is there an optimal dimension? Or is it not critical?
Keith

[Bored&Stroked]

From everything I've always heard, the closer the better . . . just make sure the assembly is rigid enough to not flex and get caught up in the rotating assembly. You'll notice on the link I posted that the Milodon diamond scraper has reinforcing materials in various places - it does not flex in the least.

[tubman]

Sure, it'll help a bit, but why bother? No sense in being humiliated by a kid with a "fart-can" Honda.

[khschs]

I did notice the design features of the Milodon windage tray and thought I might incorporate something similar. I will hold minimal clearance on the crank and rods and use 14or 16Ga.for reinforcement. I believe that should be ridgid enough to maintain its integrity.
Keith

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by khschs

I have looked at several designs from simple screens to elaborate designs that incorporate hinged doors etc. I intend to use the car as a street rod and I want it to be the best it can be. There is , however,a practical limit. To that end,I would appreciate some suggestions on designs that are known to function efficiently.
The engine is a 59A with a Merc crank and if it matters, a blower.
Keith

But of course before building and installing your windage tray you are going to record all the necessary performance parameters to compare before and after performance. Is that what you are planning on doing?

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by khschs

I did notice the design features of the Milodon windage tray and thought I might incorporate something similar. I will hold minimal clearance on the crank and rods and use 14or 16Ga.for reinforcement. I believe that should be ridgid enough to maintain its integrity.
Keith

I realize your working with a 59A style oil pan. To help with a design for the latter 8ba block Ford actual made an oil pan that includes a complete windage tray assembly it was used on Mercury engines which of course also had the 4 inch stroke crankshafts. If you were able to look at the Mercury oil pan Ford used on the latter 8BA block you will see a perfect example of what to do. The oil pump pickup for this oil pan is an added bonus which you could use on the 59A. The pickup includes metal around the pickup screen area that helps add further windage protection. You could actually use that Mercury pick up with your oil pump and have a good start on what to design around the factory part.

For those who may feel this is a foolish idea take a moment and wonder why Ford would go to all the trouble of designing and including such a foolish idea for a stock flathead. There's actually a simple answer because it actually works. I know on my engines it works heck even the tuners who loose when racing against me know this as well.
Ronnieroadster

[Alaska Jim]

Ronnie is describing the oil pan I recommended. You can use this pan and pick-up as is, and it will be better than most stock pans. If you want it could be easily further modified depending on the level of performance you are trying to build to. in my opinion for an almost stock to very mild street eng. this pan is the best for the amount of money and time you would have to invest.

[34PKUP]

Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster

I realize your working with a 59A style oil pan. To help with a design for the latter 8ba block Ford actual made an oil pan that includes a complete windage tray assembly it was used on Mercury engines which of course also had the 4 inch stroke crankshafts. If you were able to look at the Mercury oil pan Ford used on the latter 8BA block you will see a perfect example of what to do. The oil pump pickup for this oil pan is an added bonus which you could use on the 59A. The pickup includes metal around the pickup screen area that helps add further windage protection. You could actually use that Mercury pick up with your oil pump and have a good start on what to design around the factory part.

For those who may feel this is a foolish idea take a moment and wonder why Ford would go to all the trouble of designing and including such a foolish idea for a stock flathead. There's actually a simple answer because it actually works. I know on my engines it works heck even the tuners who loose when racing against me know this as well.
Ronnieroadster

Well, I guess that even Ford felt it was foolish or why would they eliminate the windage tray in the '52 and '53 Mercury 4 inch stroke flathead?

[Bored&Stroked]

Who knows about what Ford did and didn't do . . . in many cases things were done to save costs. Also, at the lower RPMs that most folks ran their engines - probably didn't make a whole lot of difference.

[khschs]

A little investigating has yielded a few pictures of the 49-53 Merc pan and windage tray. It seems that with some modification the tray portion could be fitted to the 59A pan. Might even be simpler to just fab a new one.
Thanks to everyone who has responded .
Keith

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by 34PKUP

Well, I guess that even Ford felt it was foolish or why would they eliminate the windage tray in the '52 and '53 Mercury 4 inch stroke flathead?

This logic is flawed. Why auto companies do things is beyond anyone's guess. Mostly its done to save money.

[solidaxle]

Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster

I realize your working with a 59A style oil pan. To help with a design for the latter 8ba block Ford actual made an oil pan that includes a complete windage tray assembly it was used on Mercury engines which of course also had the 4 inch stroke crankshafts. If you were able to look at the Mercury oil pan Ford used on the latter 8BA block you will see a perfect example of what to do. The oil pump pickup for this oil pan is an added bonus which you could use on the 59A. The pickup includes metal around the pickup screen area that helps add further windage protection. You could actually use that Mercury pick up with your oil pump and have a good start on what to design around the factory part.

For those who may feel this is a foolish idea take a moment and wonder why Ford would go to all the trouble of designing and including such a foolish idea for a stock flathead. There's actually a simple answer because it actually works. I know on my engines it works heck even the tuners who loose when racing against me know this as well.
Ronnieroadster

Here's what I believe is a "51" pan Ronnie mentions.

[frnkeore]

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I'm late to this.

As for HP, most windage trays will be in the single digits. Many claim no HP increase. I've only run one, back in the 60's, on a 427 and did no A/B test, to see if it increased HP.

Anything you can do, to control the oil will be beneficial, especially in keeping the upper oil, off the crank. Try to route it to the front and rear of the engine. Little things here and there can always help.

Regarding the pictured 49/51 pan, it is not a windage tray, that is a baffle and a fairly well designed one. Great for cornering, stops, starts and steep hills.

It separates the aerated oil from the pan oil but, doesn't to anything to control and condense that oil.

Ford may have added it to see if it reduced warranty claims, found it didn't and removed it from the last two years. My only guess?

[khschs]

I think I have come up with a plan "A" (least used plan in the world).
Fabricate a tray closely resembling that used on the 50s Mercury. I think that it will improve oil control and should be rather simple to fabricate.
It would be helpful,however, if I could get a few dimensions off an original Merc pan. Any help along that line would be appreciated.
Keith

[Ronnieroadster]

Keith I can help with some measurements of the windage tray installed in the Mercury pan and the correct pickup as well send me a PM.
Ronnieroadster

[51 MERC-CT]

Some observations made some time ago on location of tray.