The Ford Barn

Bruce/CT · 11-06-2016, 02:33 PM

Hi,

I am certain that this has been discussed here but before I do it wrong I thought that I'd better ask. I couldn't find the answer in a search.

How do I best neutralize MIG acids before I lead over my work? Is washing with Metal Prep solution the way to go?
Thanks in advance,
Bruce/CT

FlatheadTed · 11-06-2016, 03:02 PM

Do you mean the cleaning acid ,Baking soda ,White vinegar

Bruce/CT · 11-06-2016, 03:19 PM

Hi Flathead Ted,
Yes... what should I use to clean the weld area after welding and before lead filling. Sorry if I was unclear.
Bruce/CT

51 MERC-CT · 11-06-2016, 03:31 PM

Don't worry about neutralizing the residual flux. Grind as much as necessary to get to clean metal followed by rotary wire brushing if necessary. Of course grit blasting is another option.
The acid/tinning process will tell you where you need further cleaning.

mrtexas · 11-06-2016, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce/CT

Hi,

I am certain that this has been discussed here but before I do it wrong I thought that I'd better ask. I couldn't find the answer in a search.

How do I best neutralize MIG acids before I lead over my work? Is washing with Metal Prep solution the way to go?
Thanks in advance,
Bruce/CT

What MIG acids? I thought the wire was steel. You using flux core MIG wire? I don't think that is a very good choice myself if you are.

barnfind · 11-07-2016, 09:16 AM

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Flux core MIG would not be my choice.

Tim Ayers · 11-07-2016, 10:04 AM

Agree. Lose that flux core MIG wire.

deuce_roadster · 11-07-2016, 10:16 AM

As said above, the tinning step will take care of anything impure and won't stick where there are problems. AFTER the lead is applied, thorough cleaning of the tinning flux acid is critical to the paint adhering properly.
I hammer welded about 10" all around my avatar roadster and metal finished it on both sides. I did use a little bit of lead in a few places and was surprised how easy it was.
As with any lead product follow ALL precautions, set up a fan to keep from breathing fumes while working the lead and wear a respirator also when filing/sanding the lead.

rotorwrench · 11-07-2016, 10:39 AM

The MIG process (GMAW) should produce no acids since there is no flux. If you are flux core arc welding then it depends on what type of wire you are using and whether you are using a shield gas with it. There are a lot of different wires available. the main thing is that you get all the slag residue off of the weld. The flux used for tin/leading will generally overpower anything that is on the surface as long as the weld was dressed down and all flux/slag residue was removed.

I miss the old Dutch Boy mercury based flux. Tin/lead body solder worked really well with that stuff but you had to take precautions not to poison yourself during the process. The zinc chloride based stuff isn't as good but it also has to be used with care and it does work. Cleaning the residue of that stuff off is important to good paint adhesion. More so than the welding flux for sure.

Bruce/CT · 11-07-2016, 10:51 AM

Hi Rotowrench,
What do you use to clean off the lead flux?
Thanks, Bruce

deuce_roadster · 11-07-2016, 01:47 PM

I used a scotchbrite pad with a strong base solution to neutralize any acid left over and rinsed with water and dried. Whatever etch you use as normal after finishing the lead work before paint.

Brian · 11-07-2016, 01:55 PM

I use 'Fluxite' flux; this is a paste and non corrosive/toxic.Clean it off with prepsol afterward. Too easy.

rotorwrench · 11-07-2016, 02:25 PM

You can use soap & water on straight zinc chloride since it is basically an oxidizer. An ammonia solution will also neutralize if there are any acids in with the zinc chloride flux. Prep Sol will work on non acidic chlorides but it won't do much for acidic properties. Water will flush away acidic components too but it will need to be mechanically wiped during the process.

36 flathead · 11-08-2016, 11:36 AM

I like a 50-50 mix of ammonia and alcohol . stops the flash rust.

cobbie · 11-08-2016, 12:04 PM

Bruce,
I think the important thing is to neutralize the area after leading, as the tinning flux is what really needs to be neutralized.

11-06-2016, 02:33 PM	#1
Bruce/CT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Middlebury, CT Posts: 780	How to neutralize mig acids before leading Hi, I am certain that this has been discussed here but before I do it wrong I thought that I'd better ask. I couldn't find the answer in a search. How do I best neutralize MIG acids before I lead over my work? Is washing with Metal Prep solution the way to go? Thanks in advance, Bruce/CT __________________ Failure is simply the opportunity to begin again, this time more intelligently.......Henry Ford

11-06-2016, 03:02 PM	#2
FlatheadTed Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auckland Posts: 4,705	Re: How to neutralize mig acids before leading Do you mean the cleaning acid ,Baking soda ,White vinegar __________________ http://www.flatheadted.com Flathead Ted brake Floaters ,

11-06-2016, 03:19 PM	#3
Bruce/CT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Middlebury, CT Posts: 780	Re: How to neutralize mig acids before leading Hi Flathead Ted, Yes... what should I use to clean the weld area after welding and before lead filling. Sorry if I was unclear. Bruce/CT __________________ Failure is simply the opportunity to begin again, this time more intelligently.......Henry Ford

11-06-2016, 03:31 PM	#4
51 MERC-CT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Hartford, Ct Posts: 5,898	Re: How to neutralize mig acids before leading Don't worry about neutralizing the residual flux. Grind as much as necessary to get to clean metal followed by rotary wire brushing if necessary. Of course grit blasting is another option. The acid/tinning process will tell you where you need further cleaning. __________________ DON'T RECALL DOING SOMETHING FOR MYSELF BASED ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LIKES OR DISLIKES Last edited by 51 MERC-CT; 11-06-2016 at 03:37 PM.

11-07-2016, 09:16 AM	#6
barnfind Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 426	Re: How to neutralize mig acids before leading Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Flux core MIG would not be my choice.

11-07-2016, 10:04 AM	#7
Tim Ayers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NJ Posts: 6,178	Re: How to neutralize mig acids before leading Agree. Lose that flux core MIG wire.

11-07-2016, 10:16 AM	#8
deuce_roadster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Shelton, WA Posts: 3,800	Re: How to neutralize mig acids before leading As said above, the tinning step will take care of anything impure and won't stick where there are problems. AFTER the lead is applied, thorough cleaning of the tinning flux acid is critical to the paint adhering properly. I hammer welded about 10" all around my avatar roadster and metal finished it on both sides. I did use a little bit of lead in a few places and was surprised how easy it was. As with any lead product follow ALL precautions, set up a fan to keep from breathing fumes while working the lead and wear a respirator also when filing/sanding the lead.

11-07-2016, 10:39 AM	#9
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,426	Re: How to neutralize mig acids before leading The MIG process (GMAW) should produce no acids since there is no flux. If you are flux core arc welding then it depends on what type of wire you are using and whether you are using a shield gas with it. There are a lot of different wires available. the main thing is that you get all the slag residue off of the weld. The flux used for tin/leading will generally overpower anything that is on the surface as long as the weld was dressed down and all flux/slag residue was removed. I miss the old Dutch Boy mercury based flux. Tin/lead body solder worked really well with that stuff but you had to take precautions not to poison yourself during the process. The zinc chloride based stuff isn't as good but it also has to be used with care and it does work. Cleaning the residue of that stuff off is important to good paint adhesion. More so than the welding flux for sure.

11-07-2016, 10:51 AM	#10
Bruce/CT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Middlebury, CT Posts: 780	Re: How to neutralize mig acids before leading Hi Rotowrench, What do you use to clean off the lead flux? Thanks, Bruce __________________ Failure is simply the opportunity to begin again, this time more intelligently.......Henry Ford

11-07-2016, 01:47 PM	#11
deuce_roadster Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Shelton, WA Posts: 3,800	Re: How to neutralize mig acids before leading I used a scotchbrite pad with a strong base solution to neutralize any acid left over and rinsed with water and dried. Whatever etch you use as normal after finishing the lead work before paint.

11-07-2016, 01:55 PM	#12
Brian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Masterton, New Zealand Posts: 3,832	Re: How to neutralize mig acids before leading I use 'Fluxite' flux; this is a paste and non corrosive/toxic.Clean it off with prepsol afterward. Too easy. __________________ Unfortunately, two half wits don't make a whole wit!

11-07-2016, 02:25 PM	#13
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,426	Re: How to neutralize mig acids before leading You can use soap & water on straight zinc chloride since it is basically an oxidizer. An ammonia solution will also neutralize if there are any acids in with the zinc chloride flux. Prep Sol will work on non acidic chlorides but it won't do much for acidic properties. Water will flush away acidic components too but it will need to be mechanically wiped during the process.

11-08-2016, 11:36 AM	#14
36 flathead Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: pittsburgh pa Posts: 138	Re: How to neutralize mig acids before leading I like a 50-50 mix of ammonia and alcohol . stops the flash rust.

11-08-2016, 12:04 PM	#15
cobbie Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bend, OR Posts: 82	Re: How to neutralize mig acids before leading Bruce, I think the important thing is to neutralize the area after leading, as the tinning flux is what really needs to be neutralized.