setting head stud height?

[freak]

How do you guys go about setting your head stud height? I was told one thread showing past the nut is the rule. Should I set the head on the block with a spacer equal to the gasket thickness and set the height from there?

Also should the nuts and stud tops get painted?

I don't have a points car but I try to do things as close as I can.

[Dave Mellor NJ]

as a general rule,any stud should be half the diameter sticking out beyond the nut for maximum strength.

[Barber31]

All I did when rebuilding mine was use the measurements given in the red book. From deck to top of stud. With the head off put a tape measure right next to the stud and tighten it down till it was the correct height. After that did a test fit of everything and it looked good to me so I went with that. I didn't paint anything. I think the nuts are cad plated with black studs. They still look ok.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by freak

How do you guys go about setting your head stud height? I was told one thread showing past the nut is the rule. Should I set the head on the block with a spacer equal to the gasket thickness and set the height from there?

Also should the nuts and stud tops get painted?

I don't have a points car but I try to do things as close as I can.

Since we don't know how much the head/block has been shaved we cannot give you an exact measurement of stud height above the deck. We do know that the stud was about 1/32" above the stud when assembled.

The spacer idea will get you close.

No, the nuts were cad plated and the studs were plain steel.

[CarlG]

I just use one of these to set the stud height



Good for checking if they are square to the block also.

[James Rogers]

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I use a dial caliper set to 2 3/4" for all except the two front and the ignition (#8) studs. These set at 5" and 2 13/16" and I measure from the deck to the top thread.In most cases, this will set the nuts to have 2 threads above the head surface. No paint on the studs or nuts.

[Mike]

What do you do if you reach the correct height of the stud and the stud is still loose ?

Mike

[Mikeinnj]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Since we don't know how much the head/block has been shaved we cannot give you an exact measurement of stud height above the deck. We do know that the stud was about 1/32" above the stud when assembled.

The spacer idea will get you close.

No, the nuts were cad plated and the studs were plain steel.

1.) Who are "we" ?

2.) You said "We do know that the stud was about 1/32" above the stud when assembled.".....what does that mean ???

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Mikeinnj

1.) Who are "we" ? Do you know how much his head has been shaved? You don't know, I don't know, the readers don't know, so WE don't know.

2.) You said "We do know that the stud was about 1/32" above the stud when assembled.".....what does that mean ???

The stud sticks out 1/32" above the nut.

Maybe this will make it clearer, it's from the restoration and judging manual;

[Mike]

What about my question ?
Mike

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by 1930 coupe

The stud does not have to be tight to work. I put permatex #2 on the threads that go in the block, it will keep the stud from turning when the nuts are torqued and it will stop water leaks if the hole in the block goes into the water jacket.

Ditto

[Mike]

Thank you,
Mike

[machine girl]

Wow loose studs in the block= trouble

[dean from bozeman]

Mike, 1930 Coupe's idea is one way to do it. I also heard that you can use permanent loctite to attach the nuts to the stud. Then you torque down. The space on top of the nut will be the same for all even when you have to retorque the head after some time.

It is amazing how close the 1/32" gap is for all studs/nuts on original engines that haven't been opened.

[machine girl]

Bozeman, how do you retorque the head after that loose stud has rusted up in the block, good concept but think a bad idea?

[dean from bozeman]

I have passed on a technique that I had heard about. Personally I have not tried it.

1930 Coupe - I imagine a bit can be ground off the stud to prevent bottoming out. That's interesting about the torque values being different depending on the coarseness of the thread.

machine girl - Good point. Perhaps frequent tightening and some type of thread treatment could prevent this.

[machine girl]

OK, a stud is solid mounting point.end of story, if not needed just use bolts. also when you torque a loose stud whats turning? just trying to help before you all go the wrong way.

[dean from bozeman]

machine girl, it's all good. That's what this board is (should be) all about: put topics up for discussion; find the good points and bad; learn and move on.

[Mikeinnj]

I'd like to hear comments from some of the engine re-builders on this board about how tight and deep they set the studs in the block before tightening the head nuts

[freak]

There is no tightening of the studs. The depth depends on what you want it to look like when you are done.

[CarlG]

I'm using ARP studs and they have an allen socket in the top of the stud so that you can: 1) insert/remove studs, 2) keep them from turning when applying torque to the nuts.

Came in real handy when I had to remove a stud to fix a leaky one today.

[Marshall57]

A little off topic but what do you chase the threads with? A regular tap or a flat bottom one? (is there such a thing?)
I’m worried that the stud might bottom out if any junk is still in the hole and will leave the stud higher rather than lower...
Has that been a problem?
I am just about to put in new studs and a high compression head.

[freak]

Flat bottom tap. There is such a thing.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Rather than use a bottoming tap, I would cut an X in a bolt and use that to clean the threads.

[Marshall57]

great ideas,, thanks

[freak]

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I messed around for a while today with the studs. I placed the gasket, a couple of studs and set the head on. According to the guide that someone posted, the stud should stick out 1/32". 1/32" is a very small amount and I had to use dial calipers to get it right. Of course one you tighten the nuts the gasket will compress a little and the head will pull down and more than 1/32" will be present. Once I was happy with the studs I pulled the head and measured the deck to stud top. Of the three I tried one was at 2.780 and the others were close to that. That is very close to 2.75 or 2-3/4". Someone also posted that number as well. So what I assume is that they were set at 2-3/4" at the factory and that is where I am going to set mine. The water neck studs bottom out and have much more than 1/32" stud showing but I'm not going to worry about that. #8 I have no clue and I'm not using a clamp so I will bottom that one out as well and use a washer if needed. I'm going to use red loctite, set them at 2-3/4", let the loctite set for a day then torque down the head. Thanks for all the input everyone!!

[RonC]

I would use a thread chaser not a tap. You want to be careful you don't cut the threaded holes oversized

[freak]

If you have the same class tap (typcially 2b) the threads really can't get oversized. A problem can arise of the threads are damaged. If you have damaged threads then more material could be removed. The threads may not be oversized when checked with a thread gage but they could be missing material making the threads weaker. A tap cleans threads very well and used correctly they won't cause damage. The idea of the chaser is that they can form and cut damaged material that makes up a thread back into place. They don't fix cast threads very well but they may clean them ok. I've never used one since I have a tap set but a set of chasers is much cheaper.

[freak]

Originally Posted by 1930 coupe

You might want to look at the Loctite website and read about red versus blue.
Red is permanent, the only way you can get the studs back out is to heat them to 500 degrees. Blue will come out cold and is plenty strong for your application. If you ever need to remove your studs you will be sorry if you use red.

It's not that hard to take apart. On a stud as large as these they will come out without heat. On a small bolt, maybe 1/4-20, that was deep in a hole you would probably break it without heat.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Dog here,
Wull, we got more important things to wurry about, than if ALL our threaded studs stick up jist right, above the NUT! Ol' Gregg, (RIP) even put thet looong stud in the rong hole---BUT, Ol' Bill's got thet covered, he bought 10 CHROME acorn nut covers!! "Why 10? it only has 9, (count them) studs"?----"In case we drop 1 down the bellhousing,DUMMY"!
Ol' Bill sez if he ever has to take the head off, he's gonna' git sum REAL acorn nuts & copper plate them & tell folks it's a Model "T" motor!! Ol' Bill's a RASCAL, but he loves me!! He wanted to take me to the car show today, BUT I couldn't fit in the scooter basket---Buster T.

[Mike]

Bill we are just trying to do the job correctly so we do not have to do it again!!

Mike

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Mike

Bill we are just trying to do the job correctly so we do not have to do it again!!

Mike

He's just having fun with you!

[freak]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

He's just having fun with you!

That's right but that was Bill's dog not Bill.