Stolen Model A Fords ****CRAIGS list****

[160B]

They were part of his estate, which is being protested by one of the family.
The cars were NOT stolen.


Saw this on craigs list

1929 Model A Ford Roadster Pickup, 1930 Model A Ford Cabriolet, 1930 Model A Ford 5 window coupe Hot Rod, 1984 tandem axle open car trailer ALL STOLEN FROM A LOCKED SHOP IN TRAIL, OREGON. I have reason to believe one or more could be in the Seattle area, possibly Silverdale, WA. If you see any of these vehicles, please call me.

Do Not Buy any of these vehicles as you Will be buying stolen car. Thanks 503-314-0652

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/4425181731.html

[christian]

You call the cops ?

[christian]

Oh, my mistake, thought this was someone trying to sell them.......

[28ACoupe]

Oh man! That sucks!

[P.S.]

All 3 cars AND a trailer? Hmmm... I would query friends and relatives first.

[53F100Jeffie]

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That sucks, hope you get them back.

[bobpo1]

Best of luck in getting them back. I have NO USE for a Thief. They are the scum of the Earth. Someone works all their life to get things they've always wanted and then only to have some Low Life Sub-Culture Less-Than-Human sneak and take it makes my blood boil.

Hope they're caught.

[160B]

They were part of his estate, which is being protested by one of the family.
The cars were NOT stolen.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by P.S.

All 3 cars AND a trailer? Hmmm... I would query friends and relatives first.

Now that the original post has been edited, you hit it on the head!

[P.S.]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Now that the original post has been edited, you hit it on the head!

Thank you!



I have to confess.... I may be an engineer by day, but I volunteer for the sheriff's dept. on days off and know a thing or two about investigations.

[700rpm]

Is the person contesting the will the person who placed the CL ad?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Estate feuds is where siblings shows their true colors. I'm going through the same thing right now where my oldest brother tried to make my mom's will his will.

This has been a costly learning lesson, and I need to learn how to protect what I own and see that all my property and Model A's go to the people I want, and make sure some greedy brother can't hire a lawyer and steal them.

[Gunmetal blue2]

How would like to be told that you are not in the will, but not get to see the will. On disablity so can't pay for a lawer to get the information.

[1wonton]

Testamentary wills are public record, there is no legal reason why you can't see the document.

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by Gunmetal blue2

How would like to be told that you are not in the will, but not get to see the will. On disablity so can't pay for a lawer to get the information.

Who told you that you couldn't see the will? An attorney, or someone with a vested interest in the terms of the will? 1wonton is right, but if you really need legal advice and money is a problem, you should have a legal aid society that can help. Absent that, call your local bar; there are attorneys that will do pro bono work as part of their practice, and the bar can direct you to one.

[nstegall]

Tom,

To pretect your assets, you set up an asset protection trust and transfer title over to the trust. The trust will own it. You can name who you want the asset to go to by naming them benificuary. No sibling, ex-wife and their crooked lawyer can touch it.

Do not have your name on the trust. Name someone as trustee for you. You will control the trust.

Trust that helps.

Neil

[Tom Wesenberg]

Neil, Thanks. I'll have to look into a trust, as I don't know much about them. I've said before that in high school kids should be taught more real world problems and solutions than what is now taught, and this should include investments, death, wills, and trusts. I don't recall being taught anything about these.

[Fred K-OR]

Yes living trusts are a good idea and they are not that hard to set up.

[Papa's CCPU]

Sad, unfortunate, and avoidable from what I've come to understand.

However, I'm no legal expert, and may be way off, (and if so, I need to revisit what I've put in place for my kids and grand kids), but....
Isn't a Living Trust the way to ensure it all gets dealt with according to ones wishes after your are gone?

I assisted my parents with theirs, after learning how my wife's grandparents put a clause in their living trust that if anyone disputes anything, they forfeit anything they would have received and only get $1..... (Tom - think this eliminates having to deal with siblings true colors)

Sure seemed like it was the best thing to do, parents created a living trust, I did the same....

Anyone know if this is a valid solution?
Not that it will help this guy out of this current situation, or yours Tom, but if this is
the right way to so like you stated,

"I need to learn how to protect what I own and see that all my property and Model A's go to the people I want, and make sure some greedy brother can't hire a lawyer and steal them"

[bobpo1]

160B,

Thanks for the update.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Neil, Thanks. I'll have to look into a trust, as I don't know much about them. I've said before that in high school kids should be taught more real world problems and solutions than what is now taught, and this should include investments, death, wills, and trusts. I don't recall being taught anything about these.

Tom,

Definitely look into a trust. I am in California but assume that the laws in your state are similar. If you die without a will or trust everything will go through a court process with the help of a lawyer ($$$). The state has rules about how your assets will be distributed. For estates less than $100,000 (this includes the total value of your house, not just your equity in it) a will does not go through the court process thus saving money. For trusts the estate does not go through the court (assuming no one contests it). If you have a trust it virtually eliminates the lawyer’s involvement (except in a consulting mode) saving your beneficiaries a lot of time and money. When you die with a trust the trustee can walk into your bank the next day and have complete authority over all of your assets to write checks and pay bills. In addition to the trust document I have a non-binding document that suggests who will handle the sale of my vehicles should my family decide to do so. This person is a trusted friend and we have an agreement to handle the sales of the others cars and parts when one of us dies. Both wives were present when we made this agreement. This document also states that there is an extra set of keys for everything in my safety deposit box and where it is located. It gives the location and approximate value of all of my assets. Good luck and wishing you a long life.

Charlie Stephens

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Gunmetal blue2

How would like to be told that you are not in the will, but not get to see the will. On disablity so can't pay for a lawer to get the information.

I am in California and wills are generally recorded with the county recorder. You might make a few phone calls to the local county recorder. Trusts are not required to be recorded. I believe there is a requirement for the trustee to distribute the trust to all potential beneficiaries. Maybe you could get a freebee from an estate planning attorney that would hope to become involved if you just asked about the requirement to distribute the trust or will (if there is one).

Charlie Stephens

[BudP]

Many times church congregations have an attorney or two who do "pro bono" work for a church member at the request of the minister or priest. They do not advertise they do this but your minister or priest may know an attorney who can at least give you knowledgeable advice about a will and a trust. In most jurisdictions trusts do not have to be made public. And, properly written, they can be modified with little or no formality, especially if the trust is drawn up to permit that.

[nstegall]

Tom,

Do not go to a lawyer for a trust of any kind. They will talk you out of it. They will tell you a will is best. They can't make any money on a trust when you pass, but with a will they can take everything and screw you around in ways you never heard of.

A living will or trust is only valid while you are alive. An asset protection trust can not be touched as it is a seperate entity. You can have as many trust as you need. One trust for you house. One trust for the land your house sit on. One trust for each car, etc. Upon your passing it can not be contested. You can name anyone to received any benefits for it by naming as a benificuary. You must distance yourself far from it. Do not call it by your name nor have you name nor anyone name one it. In the trust declaration you give it a name as you would a corporation. You can leave a will to family for the little things and usually they will fight over that too. Hope that helps to make things a little clearer. Neil

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by papa's28

Anyone know if this is a valid solution?

Everything in the estate is now in the name of the trust. The grantor, the person that started the trust, can do with the assets of the trust as he/she sees fit. Any income goes to the trust and again the grantor controls the assets.

Upon the death of the grantor, the trust goes to the trustee and the beneficiaries and it avoids probate.

That is the simple way it works. It also has additional benefits that are best discussed with a professional such as a disability trustee. To confuse things even more there are irrevocable trusts as well as revocable trusts.

[TerryH]

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That is simply not true that attorneys will try to talk you out of a trust. I live in Calif. and most of our friends have trusts (including us), and we all had competent attorneys draw up all the documents, including end of life care, etc. I am not a super fan of attorneys in general, but there are many very reliable and reputable ones to work with. Usually you can get a referral from a friend or family member who has used them before.

[Charlie Stephens]

You just need to find an estate planning lawyer that specializes in preparing trusts. Every estate planning lawyer I have talked with told me why a trust was the only way to go with a "pour over" will to cover anything that might have been missed when the trust was prepared.

Charlie Stephens

Originally Posted by nstegall

Tom,

Do not go to a lawyer for a trust of any kind. They will talk you out of it. They will tell you a will is best. They can't make any money on a trust when you pass, but with a will they can take everything and screw you around in ways you never heard of.

A living will or trust is only valid while you are alive. An asset protection trust can not be touched as it is a seperate entity. You can have as many trust as you need. One trust for you house. One trust for the land your house sit on. One trust for each car, etc. Upon your passing it can not be contested. You can name anyone to received any benefits for it by naming as a benificuary. You must distance yourself far from it. Do not call it by your name nor have you name nor anyone name one it. In the trust declaration you give it a name as you would a corporation. You can leave a will to family for the little things and usually they will fight over that too. Hope that helps to make things a little clearer. Neil

[QGolden]

I have been the administrator of a trust for the past two years for an Elderly friend who has passed. Placing EVERYTHING in the name of the trust will protect your wishes, laws vary by state so an estate lawyer is required to set it up. An Estate Planning Lawyer will not try to talk you out of it, that area of law is their specialty. If you try to do it yourself and are unfamiliar with your states laws, it can all be undone with a single petition, then you have no protection.

Wills will protect who gets what, unless your final time is spent in a long term care facility and the Bills mount. If you do not have a revenue stream to pay the bills then items in your Will are assets that will have to be sold first to pay your debts, this often before you are gone. A trust will protect yours things from the bill collectors while you are alive as they are no longer yours, they belong to the trust, not you. But there are some very specific rules to follow. And you likely need to do this some time BEFORE you become a long term care patient. Be sure to select an administrator of your trust who is honest and persistent, the one I administer has been going for two years now, with no immediate end in site. Be sure the administrator attends at least one meeting with you and the Attorney, they need to know each other. The Lawyers get their share, I may administer the trust, but there is still a law firm involved, I pay their bills out of the trust as well. It is easy to me to see how your final assets can get whittled down if things take a while.

The very best thing to do in my experience is to give it all away while you are still alive. Houses can be deeded with life tenancy provisions, cars can be registered or titled to others ( understand the insurance ramifications if you continue to drive them) bank accounts can be joint with survivorship. Sit with a lawyer. Understand what happens if you go before your spouse.

[Pinstripe]

Hey, Excellent discussion on a topic that I need to get going on.Keep talking- I'd like to hear more on this.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Pinstripe

Hey, Excellent discussion on a topic that I need to get going on.Keep talking- I'd like to hear more on this.

I agree and this is one time I'm glad the topic got a little sidelined. It's a good wakeup call after what I've gone through the past 4 1/2 years with my oldest brother.

I would like to be able to give my stuff away to certain people or museums, but I also need to be prepared in case I died suddenly from an accident or heart attack, and then wouldn't or couldn't have time to pass it out.

[Charlie Stephens]

Be extremely careful about transferring property as an estate planning tool. This is not a do it yourself task, consult a lawyer. If not done properly (and I am not sure there is a proper way to do it) you might end up with a court forcing the sale of the property to settle the other persons debts. Also the person, assuming they are the beneficiary, will have tax ramifications. If you inherit a piece of property the value of the property for capital gains taxes is the value at the time of death. If transferred before the value is the value the property was originally purchased for. I am not a lawyer just a person that has watched what can happen if it is not handled properly.

Charlie Stephens

[BudP]

Estate planning should not be a DYI project. You will always be in control but do a little reading on the differences between a will and a trust. Then consult with an attorney who specializes in elder law. Charlie Stephens' experience and advice comports with mine. I have administered three wills and am trustee on two existing trusts. Sometimes a revocable trust with a "pour-over" will be in the best interests of the person with meaningful items in his/her estate. Your estate need not be very large. But if it has things in it that mean a lot to you, e.g., mom's jewlery, dad's tools, your model A, and you want to give them to a person who would appreciate them and thus remember you and be grateful, then do it in writing! And, if you want it to be private, make a trust (and perhaps a pour-over will).

And, no, I have NEVER known an attorney who specializes in elder law (wills, trusts, nursing home arrangements, elderly torts, etc.) to favor one instrument over the other! If that happens to you, consult with another attorney who specializes in elder law!

Your cost should be between $500 and $1500 regardless of the size of your estate and regardless of its contents (exceptions: an estate filled with stocks will involve some ancillary expenses to determine stock value at your death: real estate can actually be less complex if you are the sole owner).

If you have a spouse, or in today's world a significant other, they should be part of the process of planning. If they refuse to sign any instrument an attorney presents, you are stuck with a will for that which you solely own.

It's not complicated if you take it piece by piece. And, it far less than getting a Model A engine rebuilt just to place it in perspective.

Finally, DON'T WAIT! You do not want to be in the same situation that so many farmers were in 100 years ago. When they died without children on the farm, neighbors and "friends" came by to "take what was their's" before the auction started.

Also, get your burial plot bought, headstone planned, etc. You mean something to someone, now and in the future and if they have to chip-in to bury you, that is what they will remember. You never know who you are really important to: make it a nice memory!

FYI-you can get a headstone engraved with a Model A in it! :-)

[ericr]

back to the original post, before and after its amendment: surely anyone attempting to buy one of the vehicles would expect to receive a legitimate title from the seller, whoever that might have been.....so why put a warning on Craig's List? Like another member said, if something is stolen, call the cops.......not Craig's List nor Dear Abby.

as the amendment prove there are more facts here than meet the eye.