The Ford Barn

RKS.PA · 05-07-2023, 02:35 PM

I'm slowing working my way...and learning....through the 1956 Thunderbird my wife and I bought back in October 2022.

I'm fairly well acquainted with pre and post war flatheads, but this one is brand new to me.

This car tends to run cool....173* at the radiator with an infrared thermometer and I'm trying to get my original temp. gauge to register accurately. So, I thought I'd check to see what kind of thermostat was in the car. Turns out it was a 160* and I'm putting in a 180* to see how that changes things.

In the process, I cleaned up the housing that attaches to the intake manifold and replaced the gasket. Everything went back together until I tightened the two 5/16 bolts that holds the housing on the manifold.

Unfortunately, I should have read the instructions on torquing them to 12 to 15 ft. lbs. found in the Shop Manual. Of course, trying to get everything leak proof, I overdid it and cracked the housing. Yet another lesson learned!! (and $60 later for a new housing and gasket!!)

paul2748 · 05-07-2023, 07:04 PM

Tough lesson to learn.

Regarding thermostat housings, I always put studs in the intake rather than using bolts where possible.. Easier to get the housing on and it saves the threads on an aluminum intake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKS.PA

I'm slowing working my way...and learning....through the 1956 Thunderbird my wife and I bought back in October 2022.

I'm fairly well acquainted with pre and post war flatheads, but this one is brand new to me.

This car tends to run cool....173* at the radiator with an infrared thermometer and I'm trying to get my original temp. gauge to register accurately. So, I thought I'd check to see what kind of thermostat was in the car. Turns out it was a 160* and I'm putting in a 180* to see how that changes things.

In the process, I cleaned up the housing that attaches to the intake manifold and replaced the gasket. Everything went back together until I tightened the two 5/16 bolts that holds the housing on the manifold.

Unfortunately, I should have read the instructions on torquing them to 12 to 15 ft. lbs. found in the Shop Manual. Of course, trying to get everything leak proof, I overdid it and cracked the housing. Yet another lesson learned!! (and $60 later for a new housing and gasket!!)

Patrick brophy · 05-08-2023, 08:10 AM

You are one of the lucky ones.The 1955,56 and 57 Thunderbirds are prone to over heating, especially and slow speeds, such as parades and similar activities.
Most of the posts here are about requests of how to cool them down.

RKS.PA · 05-08-2023, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul2748

Tough lesson to learn.

Regarding thermostat housings, I always put studs in the intake rather than using bolts where possible.. Easier to get the housing on and it saves the threads on an aluminum intake.

Paul, that's a great idea!! I'm going that route while I wait for the new housing.

Not only will it save the intake threads, but it also makes it easier to mount the gasket and keep it in the right place!!

Thanks very much,

Regards....Dick.

dmsfrr · 05-08-2023, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKS.PA

... I'm trying to get my original temp. gauge to register accurately. ...

Fyi, the original temperature sensor in the head and the gauge in the dash for '56 are one-year-only parts. They were originally spec'd to function correctly on full 12v.
New reproduction sensors may or may not electrically match up with an original dash gauge.

If the sensor you have is failing, finding a good original one may be a decent idea.

Testing the gauge you have is a simple procedure...
https://www.ctci.org/gilsgarage/chec...l-temp-gauges/

New replacement gauge & sensor pairs are available, but they're made 'off-shore' and may not be any more accurate than what you have.

RKS.PA · 05-08-2023, 11:20 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

Fyi, the original temperature sensor in the head and the gauge in the dash for '56 are one-year-only parts. They were originally spec'd to function correctly on full 12v.
New reproduction sensors may or may not electrically match up with an original dash gauge.

If the sensor you have is failing, finding a good original one may be a decent idea.

Testing the gauge you have is a simple procedure...
https://www.ctci.org/gilsgarage/chec...l-temp-gauges/

New replacement gauge & sensor pairs are available, but they're made 'off-shore' and may not be any more accurate than what you have.

Thanks, dmsfrr, for your explanation and I found out that the sensor is unique for '56 only. I got the one that CASCO carries for the '56...part # 10884B. (It's about twice the cost of the "conventional" ones!) I am interested in knowing why and how Ford made this one unique. I think my original gauge is working properly, but I'll test it to be sure, using the link you provided.

Regards...

Dick.

dmsfrr · 05-08-2023, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKS.PA

... I am interested in knowing why and how Ford made this one unique. ...

'55 was the last year for 6 volt electrical systems, the gauges & sensors were made with electrical spec's for that.

57's were 12 volt vehicles but used a small voltage regulator just for the gauges. It reduces their voltage to somewhere around 6-ish volts, if memory serves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

... King-Seeley used both types in the late 50s. They also kept the voltage low after the change to 12-volts. In 56 they tried 12-volts but it just wasn't as reliable as the lower 5 to 6-volts so they added the constant voltage regulators to drop the voltage. ...

RKS.PA · 05-08-2023, 02:46 PM

Ah, there's the answer....not as reliable as the lower 6 volt gauges!! Can understand why Ford tried the 12 volt gauges in '56, coincidently with the switch to 12 volt electrics. Also explains why the sending unit is so expensive....not the demand and a special manufacturing process.

Thanks!!

Flathead Fever · 05-08-2023, 06:08 PM

I was a phone company fleet mechanic for 30-years. If the thermostat slips out of the groove it will get caught under the housing on one side and create a small gap on that side and the housing will crack when you tighten it down. It's very common for this to happen when your first learning. I always used a contact gasket sealer like Gasgacinch, I put it on the gasket and the part with the recess for the thermostat and let them both dry until it's just a little sticky. When they are stuck together the gasket will not move, and it keeps that thermostat in place. Sometimes it's the intake that has the recess for the thermostat and sometimes it's the thermostat housing. If you use a silicone gasket sealer on both sides of a gasket the gasket will want to squeeze out of place with the silicone, especially on water pumps. I use the Gasgacinch on one side of the gasket so it cannot move and then just a tiny bit of silicone like a 1/8" bead on the opposite side. Be careful when you are scraping the gasket surfaces not to deeply scratch the parts which can cause a leak. Make sure the thermostat sensing bulb is pointed toward the intake. You might want to test it in some hot water first to make sure it opens all of the way. A lot of new thermostats are defective, always test them before you install them.

Sometimes when you first start an engine after replacing a thermostat air is trapped in the block behind the thermostat and it will not open. Most thermostats have a little air bleed hole that lets air out so the block can fill up but some do not. On the ones that do not I try and fill the block with coolant first by pulling a heater hose or coolant sensor, something that will let the air out of the top of the engine so the coolant can fill it up from the bottom hose.

Grab the upper hose and you will fill that's it's cold. When the thermostat opens you will feel the hose get hot.

Once it does open it will purge any air out, but you will need to top off the coolant. It's better to top off stuff when the coolant is up to operating temperature, but you need to be careful not to be burned. If you fill everything to the top when it's cold. when it heats up and expands its going to puke some out. That is normal. That's what I know about thermostats after replacing hundreds of them.

dmsfrr · 05-08-2023, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flathead Fever

... If the thermostat slips out of the groove it will get caught under the housing on one side and create a small gap on that side and the housing will crack when you tighten it down. It's very common for this to happen ...

The first time I put a thermostat in my '55 it kept slipping down. I used a soft piece of wire on the thermostat pulled thru the neck to hold it in place.
For some reason I didn't want to use too much sealer, unlike the previous owner.

RKS.PA · 05-08-2023, 07:02 PM

Well, that one beats mine, but I scraped quite a bit of RTV off the mating surfaces until I found the old gasket underneath.

I like what used to be called "Indian Head Shellac" with a picture of the Chief on the bottle, but now shows up on the shelf as, "Permatex Gasket Shellac Compound". (Can't be having any socially unseemly references visible to the public at large!!) It dries nice and tacky and holds the gasket in place pretty well.

Went to Ace hardware today and bought some 5/16 x 18 threaded rod to make my studs for the thermostat housing. Seems the housings are back ordered at CASCO, but I found one at C&G Ford parts. Should be here Wednesday so looking forward to having the old girl back together!!

Thanks to all for helping this Y Block newbie!!

Dick.

chain drive · 05-08-2023, 07:12 PM

flathead fever has the right answer

paul2748 · 05-08-2023, 07:32 PM

I did the same thing only with a rubber band

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

The first time I put a thermostat in my '55 it kept slipping down. I used a soft piece of wire on the thermostat pulled thru the neck to hold it in place.
For some reason I didn't want to use too much sealer, unlike the previous owner.

paul2748 · 05-08-2023, 07:36 PM

Most good hardware stores sell studs in almost any length. With all thread, be careful you don't screw it in too far, possibly cracking the intake. Ready made studs usually have a unthreaded portion that would prevent this (if the length is right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKS.PA

Well, that one beats mine, but I scraped quite a bit of RTV off the mating surfaces until I found the old gasket underneath.

I like what used to be called "Indian Head Shellac" with a picture of the Chief on the bottle, but now shows up on the shelf as, "Permatex Gasket Shellac Compound". (Can't be having any socially unseemly references visible to the public at large!!) It dries nice and tacky and holds the gasket in place pretty well.

Went to Ace hardware today and bought some 5/16 x 18 threaded rod to make my studs for the thermostat housing. Seems the housings are back ordered at CASCO, but I found one at C&G Ford parts. Should be here Wednesday so looking forward to having the old girl back together!!

Thanks to all for helping this Y Block newbie!!

Dick.

RKS.PA · 05-09-2023, 09:52 AM

Flathead Fever, chaindrive, and paul,

That's great information!!!, especially on how to hold the thermostat in place and the caution on not letting it slip out of the recess.

Thank you!

RKS.PA · 05-09-2023, 02:08 PM

Paul, I thought about this with the allthread and put it in finger tight. But, after my earlier experience, I think I'm going back to Ace Hardware and get the auto studs I saw there yesterday. (I know them as carb studs with different threads on each end.) I don't think I could survive cracking the intake manifold!!

Trip to Ace canceled! Found two studs in my carburetor parts box!!!

KULTULZ · 05-09-2023, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul2748

I did the same thing only with a rubber band

Rubber band tied/held to a pencil on the inlet. Once mounted, pull the rubber band,

RKS.PA · 05-17-2023, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Rubber band tied/held to a pencil on the inlet. Once mounted, pull the rubber band,

Yup, used the pencil and rubber band to hold the stat in place. Worked like a charm!! Thank you for the idea!!

cos · 05-17-2023, 07:58 PM

Hello TB club has a lot of info on all of this. Years ago someone mention (If I remember correctly) a 55 temp gauge and sender will work in a 56TB 12 volt system. As mentioned above 56 TB gauge are rare, TB only. Iam not sure but different senders have numbers stamped on them, Iam thinking they are the temp when gauge is hot side of gauge? One fellow TBer took top off his sending unit (55/56) and filed points.

05-07-2023, 02:35 PM	#1
RKS.PA Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Marana, AZ Posts: 1,194	Replacing the Thermostat in my '56 312ci. I'm slowing working my way...and learning....through the 1956 Thunderbird my wife and I bought back in October 2022. I'm fairly well acquainted with pre and post war flatheads, but this one is brand new to me. This car tends to run cool....173* at the radiator with an infrared thermometer and I'm trying to get my original temp. gauge to register accurately. So, I thought I'd check to see what kind of thermostat was in the car. Turns out it was a 160* and I'm putting in a 180* to see how that changes things. In the process, I cleaned up the housing that attaches to the intake manifold and replaced the gasket. Everything went back together until I tightened the two 5/16 bolts that holds the housing on the manifold. Unfortunately, I should have read the instructions on torquing them to 12 to 15 ft. lbs. found in the Shop Manual. Of course, trying to get everything leak proof, I overdid it and cracked the housing. Yet another lesson learned!! (and $60 later for a new housing and gasket!!)

05-08-2023, 08:10 AM	#3
Patrick brophy Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Alabama Posts: 169	Re: Replacing the Thermostat in my '56 312ci. You are one of the lucky ones.The 1955,56 and 57 Thunderbirds are prone to over heating, especially and slow speeds, such as parades and similar activities. Most of the posts here are about requests of how to cool them down.

05-08-2023, 02:46 PM	#8
RKS.PA Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Marana, AZ Posts: 1,194	Re: Replacing the Thermostat in my '56 312ci. Ah, there's the answer....not as reliable as the lower 6 volt gauges!! Can understand why Ford tried the 12 volt gauges in '56, coincidently with the switch to 12 volt electrics. Also explains why the sending unit is so expensive....not the demand and a special manufacturing process. Thanks!!

05-08-2023, 06:08 PM	#9
Flathead Fever Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Yucaipa, CA Posts: 1,095	Re: Replacing the Thermostat in my '56 312ci. I was a phone company fleet mechanic for 30-years. If the thermostat slips out of the groove it will get caught under the housing on one side and create a small gap on that side and the housing will crack when you tighten it down. It's very common for this to happen when your first learning. I always used a contact gasket sealer like Gasgacinch, I put it on the gasket and the part with the recess for the thermostat and let them both dry until it's just a little sticky. When they are stuck together the gasket will not move, and it keeps that thermostat in place. Sometimes it's the intake that has the recess for the thermostat and sometimes it's the thermostat housing. If you use a silicone gasket sealer on both sides of a gasket the gasket will want to squeeze out of place with the silicone, especially on water pumps. I use the Gasgacinch on one side of the gasket so it cannot move and then just a tiny bit of silicone like a 1/8" bead on the opposite side. Be careful when you are scraping the gasket surfaces not to deeply scratch the parts which can cause a leak. Make sure the thermostat sensing bulb is pointed toward the intake. You might want to test it in some hot water first to make sure it opens all of the way. A lot of new thermostats are defective, always test them before you install them. Sometimes when you first start an engine after replacing a thermostat air is trapped in the block behind the thermostat and it will not open. Most thermostats have a little air bleed hole that lets air out so the block can fill up but some do not. On the ones that do not I try and fill the block with coolant first by pulling a heater hose or coolant sensor, something that will let the air out of the top of the engine so the coolant can fill it up from the bottom hose. Grab the upper hose and you will fill that's it's cold. When the thermostat opens you will feel the hose get hot. Once it does open it will purge any air out, but you will need to top off the coolant. It's better to top off stuff when the coolant is up to operating temperature, but you need to be careful not to be burned. If you fill everything to the top when it's cold. when it heats up and expands its going to puke some out. That is normal. That's what I know about thermostats after replacing hundreds of them. Last edited by Flathead Fever; 05-08-2023 at 06:18 PM.

05-08-2023, 07:02 PM	#11
RKS.PA Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Marana, AZ Posts: 1,194	Re: Replacing the Thermostat in my '56 312ci. Well, that one beats mine, but I scraped quite a bit of RTV off the mating surfaces until I found the old gasket underneath. I like what used to be called "Indian Head Shellac" with a picture of the Chief on the bottle, but now shows up on the shelf as, "Permatex Gasket Shellac Compound". (Can't be having any socially unseemly references visible to the public at large!!) It dries nice and tacky and holds the gasket in place pretty well. Went to Ace hardware today and bought some 5/16 x 18 threaded rod to make my studs for the thermostat housing. Seems the housings are back ordered at CASCO, but I found one at C&G Ford parts. Should be here Wednesday so looking forward to having the old girl back together!! Thanks to all for helping this Y Block newbie!! Dick.

05-08-2023, 07:12 PM	#12
chain drive Member Join Date: Oct 2020 Posts: 73	Re: Replacing the Thermostat in my '56 312ci. flathead fever has the right answer

05-09-2023, 09:52 AM	#15
RKS.PA Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Marana, AZ Posts: 1,194	Re: Replacing the Thermostat in my '56 312ci. Flathead Fever, chaindrive, and paul, That's great information!!!, especially on how to hold the thermostat in place and the caution on not letting it slip out of the recess. Thank you!

05-09-2023, 02:08 PM	#16
RKS.PA Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Marana, AZ Posts: 1,194	Re: Replacing the Thermostat in my '56 312ci. Paul, I thought about this with the allthread and put it in finger tight. But, after my earlier experience, I think I'm going back to Ace Hardware and get the auto studs I saw there yesterday. (I know them as carb studs with different threads on each end.) I don't think I could survive cracking the intake manifold!! Trip to Ace canceled! Found two studs in my carburetor parts box!!! Last edited by RKS.PA; 05-09-2023 at 03:43 PM.

05-17-2023, 07:58 PM	#19
cos Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2022 Posts: 16	Re: Replacing the Thermostat in my '56 312ci. Hello TB club has a lot of info on all of this. Years ago someone mention (If I remember correctly) a 55 temp gauge and sender will work in a 56TB 12 volt system. As mentioned above 56 TB gauge are rare, TB only. Iam not sure but different senders have numbers stamped on them, Iam thinking they are the temp when gauge is hot side of gauge? One fellow TBer took top off his sending unit (55/56) and filed points.