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04-18-2014, 07:16 PM | #61 | |
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Re: Vapor lock 1 and 2
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04-18-2014, 07:43 PM | #62 |
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Re: Vapor lock 1 and 2
yes
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04-18-2014, 07:45 PM | #63 |
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Re: Vapor lock 1 and 2
old henry's souloution would have resolved gary365's problem with a momentary ON switch when the fuel boils.
i ran a small inline fuel pump full time along with the mechanical for many years in 100 degree days here in south texas and never experianced any vapor lock after its installation. a small in line pump wheather part time or full time seems to me to be a sensable, and easy, souloution to this whole return line, computer fan blowing on the fuel pump, insulating fuel lines, pouring water on teh fuel pump, ect experimentation. sorry to say, but with all the complex effort on this vapor lock problem, although the insulated spacer is a great idea, with a small on line pump (part time or full time) like what old henry has been advocating is a simple and quite effective souloution and simple.. worked quite well for me. we will be living with ethenol as an additive for the forseable future. the inline pump is a simple fix...... just my thought........ don |
04-18-2014, 10:10 PM | #64 |
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Re: Vapor lock 1 and 2
As I said before, as well as the return line may work for preventing vapor lock while running, even idling, I still don't think the return line will keep the mechanical pump from vapor locking after the car has sat in the sun on a hot day with the engine off. It will be interesting to see.
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04-19-2014, 12:30 AM | #65 | |
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Re: Vapor lock 1 and 2
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I already addressed all the questions I think are required. Maybe it's time for you do a little hands on testing or wait for the final results after which I will post my findings. G.M.
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04-19-2014, 07:17 PM | #66 |
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Re: Vapor lock 1 and 2
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04-19-2014, 08:27 PM | #67 |
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Re: Vapor lock 1 and 2
your on the rite trail, the fuel now days you have to look for anything without corn squeezins, back in the 1980s I worked for a Plymouth dealer, and on hot summer days custmers complained about stalling out , me and another old timer new it was vapor lock since these carburators sat over the exhaust manifolds, just like a coffee pot they would perk over, then Chrysler came out with a kit to install with a electric fuel pump and line kit to return hot fuel from the carb back to the tank keeping fresh cool tank fuel in the carb at all times , fixed the problem, I haven't had any stalling problems with my 50, but long crank time on hot soaked motor until I quite using gas with the corn in it, hope this helps
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04-19-2014, 10:22 PM | #68 |
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Re: Vapor lock 1 and 2
What I have been wondering is if I return the maximum fuel to the tank and the fuel tank gets low on a 100 degree day with the high road heat under the tank how hot the fuel in the tank might get? By maximum fuel I mean having just enough fuel to maintain 75 MPH and returning the rest. This would give maximum cooling of the pump but also heat the fuel in the tank more. I may have mentioned this but for a trip on real hot days fill the tank in the morning before leaving with cool gas out of the under ground tank and it should stay cool until the next fuel stop. This would be rare but a lot of us have made long trips on hot days and had problems. G.M.
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04-19-2014, 10:56 PM | #69 | |
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Re: Vapor lock 1 and 2
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(Pump output specs from here: http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112181)
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Prof. Henry (The Roaming Gnome) "It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end.” *Ursula K. Le Guin in The Left Hand of Darkness Last edited by Old Henry; 04-19-2014 at 11:03 PM. |
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04-20-2014, 09:14 AM | #70 | |
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Re: Vapor lock 1 and 2
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04-20-2014, 10:22 AM | #71 |
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Re: Vapor lock 1 and 2
Since the mechanical pump produces over 6 times the volume necessary to sustain 75 mph you can return 5/6 of the fuel by the return line and still have enough flow into the carb. As you said, your return line that's smaller than your supply line will create sufficient pressure and flow without any further restrictions. I figured that all out when I was about to install a return line but then figured out that it won't help with my most common vapor lock problem - starting the engine after sitting hot out in the sun shut off for 10-20 minutes. Oh, it starts OK because all of the fuel hasn't boiled out of the carburetor but since the gas has all boiled out of the pump after going a few feet the engine uses up the gas in the carb, hasn't got any more from the pump, and dies and won't start again. I don't see a return line helping with that problem. It will be interesting to see if it does on yours.
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Prof. Henry (The Roaming Gnome) "It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end.” *Ursula K. Le Guin in The Left Hand of Darkness Last edited by Old Henry; 04-20-2014 at 10:33 AM. |
04-20-2014, 01:16 PM | #72 |
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Re: Vapor lock 1 and 2
It will work, NO doubt about it. And with Bob Shewmans 1/2" vented spacer under the carb there will be little and I suspect NO lose of gas after shut down in the carb. But I don't have to guess about this. I have a fuel sight glass on the carb and will leave it on for a month which shows the fuel level in the carb bowl at all times. So next week I will drive the 39 and do a few other checks on the return line and when I get back cover the radiator and get the temperature up to 200, shut the engine down and won't open the hood until the next day and will see how much fuel is in the carb. Pretty simple and then I know what's going and not be misled by guess's. G.M.
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04-20-2014, 05:01 PM | #73 |
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Re: Vapor lock 1 and 2
What you really need is a "sight glass" for the fuel pump. That's where the vapor lock hits mine. Carb has plenty of gas to start but then dies 'cause the pump only has vapor in it. Maybe it's an altitude thing. Guess I won't know unless you can test yours at 5-10,000 feet where I live and drive. Shucky darn. Guess I'll just have to keep relying on my handy dandy electric fuel pump.
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Prof. Henry (The Roaming Gnome) "It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end.” *Ursula K. Le Guin in The Left Hand of Darkness Last edited by Old Henry; 04-21-2014 at 09:25 AM. |
04-20-2014, 07:31 PM | #74 |
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Re: Vapor lock 1 and 2
You don't need a sight glass on the fuel pump. All you need is a laser pointed thermometer. When the top of the fuel pump gets to 135 degrees your in trouble. My pump will no longer get near 135 with the fuel return line will post the results later this week I expect the pump to remain below 125 degrees with the return line. A pressure gauge in the carb line will also show you when a vapor lock is coming. Fuel pressure drops as the pump gets hotter and when a full vapor lock is starting the gauge drops to a little less than 1 lb and starts jumping from less than lb to about a 1 lb and a half. G.M.
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04-21-2014, 06:34 AM | #75 | |
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Re: Vapor lock 1 and 2
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04-21-2014, 09:52 AM | #76 | |
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Re: Vapor lock 1 and 2
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Prof. Henry (The Roaming Gnome) "It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end.” *Ursula K. Le Guin in The Left Hand of Darkness Last edited by Old Henry; 04-21-2014 at 10:30 AM. |
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04-21-2014, 03:16 PM | #77 | |
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Re: Vapor lock 1 and 2
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I wasn't worrying about my car I knew I would have plenty of gas. I just thought you needed something to do. Thanks for figuring it out. What has always made laugh is these guys with dual carbs putting on 3/8" fuel lines when the gas is going through a .098 hole. There is more than enough gas coming from a stock pump and the 1/4" line to feed 3 carbs. G.M.
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04-21-2014, 04:32 PM | #78 |
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Re: Vapor lock 1 and 2
Yeah, that's like the guys who use 8-10 ga. wire for the speakers in their cars. Talk about overkill!
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04-22-2014, 05:36 PM | #79 |
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Re: Vapor lock 1 and 2
Had some time this morning and put the Airtex fuel valve on the 39. I took off the return line needle valve so the only restriction in the return line is the little over 1 lb fuel check valve and the .130 ID of the line. If larger return tube is used one of the fittings will to have about a .125 orfice.to restrict the amount of fuel returned. So now all I have is a "T" in the carb line, the fuel check valve and the 3/16" OD return line which is steel brake line. I started it up and the fuel pressure at about 350 to 375 RPMs idle is 1.5 lbs.
Speed the engine up to 450 to 475 and fuel pressure go's to 2.5 lbs. This is lower fuel pressure because a good potion of the fuel is being returned to the tank. Without the return the pressure was 3.5. Let the engine warm up to about 160 and checked the temperature of the gas tank which was 77 degrees so we will assume the fuel was 77 degrees. At 160 engine temp I checked the top of the fuel pump, 95 at the top and 126 at the bottom. Checked the fuel bowl on the carb, 85 and the intake manifold below the carb, 158. This is something I forgot about, the cool fuel cooling the carb. Wouldn't get over 175 degrees as it was only 75 outside. I put the fender cover over the radiator and left it run about 20 minutes and got it up to 210 degrees at the bottom of the top radiator tank. Top of fuel pump now read 93 and bottom of pump was 126. carb was 84 at the fuel bowl and 172 on the intake flange. I still have the fuel sight glass on the carb so I can watch the fuel level in the carb. I shut the engine down, closed the hood and tomorrow I will see where the fuel level is in the carb. This looks better than I thought it would. NO MORE VAPOR LOCK. G.M.
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04-23-2014, 09:45 AM | #80 |
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Re: Vapor lock 1 and 2
Went by the shop this morning and after hot shut down with the hood closed all night the fuel in sight glass of the carb fuel bowl showed right on the full line.
No lose of fuel in the carb. Even with a low battery I hit the starter and it fired right up on the first turn. This was a result of cool gas and Shewman's ventilated 1/2" carb spacer. G.M.
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