Steering S. housing ?'s - restore to original, modern seal/bushing, or seal/bearings

[montanafordman]

Hello everyone. As my title suggests I'm going through my steering box and would like to know what you all recommend. Particularly if you have done several of these, or used different setups.

As many of you know when the sector gets worn its notorious for leaking oil since only the tight fit of the bushing to the sector keeps the 600W oil from flowing out. I have heard that the needle bearings can wear the sector since its not hardened but what is your experience? Also do the bearings add any noticeable ease of movement or help with steering? Assuming the steering box is restored to original specs with the bushing can it be counted on to provide years of leak free / trouble free service? Would you ream or hone the bushings to fit if you used them? Also would you suggest machining the housing to accept the modern seal sold by vendors or consider the bearings also?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

[Mark in MT]

Hi Aaron: What I prefer to do is to use the bushings and hone them in line with each other with a pin hone. This will give you a hole apt hat is round and smooth and stay tight for a long time. I also cut a pocket in the outside end of the sector housing to accept an oil seal, this will keep the 600win the gear box along with the lower plate with the tube attached that goes up the shaft.

I am lucky enough to have a lathe, a fixture to hold the housing, and a Sunnen pin hone to do this. This combination has worked well for me several times, including 25000 miles on my own car.

[Ron/IA]

Aaron - Just as '30 Coupe and Mark have; I used the seal with honed bushings when I rebuilt my steering box. In addition, I also used the tube the goes in the end of the steering box, around the light switch shaft, and inside the steering shaft. This prevents oil from leaking into the light switch. (Hope that makes sense.)

(Note - the above mentioned tube; there is a different tube for each of the 7-tooth and 2-tooth steering boxes. Make sure you get the right one.)

[Mitch//pa]

i have been using the needle bearing set up with seal which has been working and holding up good on the boxes i did.
they have gotten a bad rap as the early kits had soft sectors so the needles grooved them. the parts being sold now have held up and are improved..IMO
going the original route cant hurt either

[Purdy Swoft]

I agree with Mitch . I've used the needle bearing and seal setup on my 31 tudor and our roadster with excellent results. I used the needle bearing two tooth housings done by Wiley Higgings and used NORS Bull Dog sectors. I used the new steering shaft with worm gear installed from Brattons on the roadster and a good original on the sedan. I used shortened pitman arms also done by Wiley. I used the lower tube that goes in the lower end of the steering shaft. Unless the lower tubes have improved in the past few years, the tube will need to be welded or soldered at the end or it will leak as bad as ever. Besides the above mods, I used reballed spindle arms from Wiley with teflon buttons in the tie rod and drag link ends. Both of these model A's drive like modern cars with power steering, when moving and both have held up good for 14 and 8 years respectively. I have overhauled other model A steering assemblies in my cars with original style bushings and used a reamer from Bratton with good results. A less expensive way to seal the sector when bushings are used goes like this. Drive the outer bushing in about 3/32 and install an O ring and washer. This setup is offered by Bratton for only seventy cents and works good.

[Kevin in NJ]

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A difficult subject to get objective information to base a sound decision.

The needle bearings run into problems because the long thin bearings can cause dents in the sector shaft. This leads to a loose shaft and broken needles. Two things come into play. How the car is driven and the sector shaft. Obviously, if the car is driven hard there will be more force on the sector shaft increasing the probability of the problem. Then there is the sector shaft. Later Ford did use the needle bearings and they had a harder surface on the sector shaft. So if you do not drive hard or have a sector properly hardened for the bearings you will be fine. A car in a museum will last forever

You also have to consider that many people do not realize their converted steering is having an issue. So how many are really not having problems is not really easy to be sure of. I was told that one person who had a business of rebuilding the sectors stopped doing the conversion because he had mixed results.

We know the properly honed to fit sector shaft with the proper oil does not leak and lasts a very long time. After all we have 80 years to prove this true.

The problem today is the bushings being sold by the parts houses are not the correct size. They do not have a small enough ID to be honed to round and have the .001" fit. If you just shove the bushings in and put the shaft in it will get loose quick and it will leak.

There are several options to stay with bushings. You have to find correct sized bushings or make your own. For the sector you can buy repro or you can find a good used original shaft and have it made round. I know one person had some shafts hard chromed and ground to standard. My brother just took about .002" off mine and I made up need bushings for the smaller diameter.

You can read some more at my webpage:

My steering sector notes

[Ken MA]

I am rebuilding the two tooth steering gear in my 30 Town Sedan restoration project. Sometime in the past a neoprene seal with an od of .155 was fitted to the sector shaft. Suppliers only show seals with 1.625 od. Any one know the pn for a 1.55 seal?

[montanafordman]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I bought the complete sector housing w/ seal and needle bearings from Snyders a couple years ago as a temporary fix for my leaks but kept my original housing. Since I had already heard the talk about the bearings wearing the sector I figured it wouldn't hurt using it on my old one, and when I got around to redoing the steering box maybe I would re-install my original housing with new bushings and maybe a seal. I think I will go that route just to see if I tell much of a difference or not, and I'd like to put the original housing back on simply because its what granddad had on the car and what it came from the factory with in the first place. I might sell my needle bearing housing or stash it away for another project. Thanks again for the feedback.

[Purdy Swoft]

I have to wonder how much experience some of the people that are so against the needle bearing setup and the use of reamers actually have!!!!!!! Worn out original sectors won't work very good for very long with bushings or bearings. Some of the older, quality aftermarket sectors have harder shafts. It is my understanding that the new repro sectors are pretty good. Model A's are very forgiving. I don't use my model A's for primary transportation. I don't plan on putting hundreds of thousands of miles on any of my cars as they are only fun cars. Most don't have a sunnen pin hone. I believe that reamers were used in the day by most service departments in the day. I have a small collection of model A's and bought all of the reamers o0ffered by Bratton in the ninties and have used them with excellent results. I was taught that a reamer cuts as smooth as a knife, while a hone depends on abrasive action. Abrasives leave small grooves with high spots that wear . We hone cylinders so that when the high spots wear in, the rings seat. I've noticed that some that talk strongly against needle bearings and hones, haven't actually had a running model A in years. Opinion is one thing, hands on experience with use and actual repair of a model A is another.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

I have to wonder how much experience some of the people that are so against the needle bearing setup and the use of reamers actually have!!!!!!! Worn out original sectors won't work very good for very long with bushings or bearings. Some of the older, quality aftermarket sectors have harder shafts. It is my understanding that the new repro sectors are pretty good. Model A's are very forgiving. I don't use my model A's for primary transportation. I don't plan on putting hundreds of thousands of miles on any of my cars as they are only fun cars. Most don't have a sunnen pin hone. I believe that reamers were used in the day by most service departments in the day. I have a small collection of model A's and bought all of the reamers o0ffered by Bratton in the ninties and have used them with excellent results. I was taught that a reamer cuts as smooth as a knife, while a hone depends on abrasive action. Abrasives leave small grooves with high spots that wear . We hone cylinders so that when the high spots wear in, the rings seat. I've noticed that some that talk strongly against needle bearings and hones, haven't actually had a running model A in years. Opinion is one thing, hands on experience with use and actual repair of a model A is another.

HERE E purdy drop the gavel
hands on experience ,, real world not here-say or 2nd hand

[Kevin in NJ]

To address Purdy...


Just because all the shops used reamers in the day does not make that the best way. Most guys do not have a hone for their bushings, but few are far from a shop that will fit the bushings for you.

The facts are simple.

Reamers leave high spots that will quickly wear causing the sector to have more play then you ideally want. They will do the job, just not the best job.

A properly set up hone will leave an accurately sized round hole. You will have a tight dry sector that stays tight for a very long time.

As far as your idea that cuts like a knife is better then abrasive you had best go back to the books. The knifes do not cut an even surface. There is a reason why milling bits have various numbers of cutting edges. While they are cutting like a knife they leave behind small bumps. Depending on the type of work you are doing you need to select the correct number of cutting flutes to get a surface that is safe for your use.
Have you ever seen them make a square hole from a round bit? It can be done.

Abrasives have been used for exceptionally fine finish work for centuries. The surface is flushed with cleaner and no significant amount of material is left behind. Keep in mind you are using a fairly hard abrasive to cut a soft material. If the abrasive lost a lot of material you would not be able to maintain an accurate hole as the stones would change too much during the cut. Plus what about the fact the sector is ground to size as well as the dist shaft and the crankshaft?

Cylinders are honed because the cut surface is not good for running the rings. You first cut with a course stone to create angled slopes of 'deep' groves which the oil will stay in. Then you cut to final diameter with a fine stone to create a smooth round surface for the metal to run against. Without the correct 2 stone process and the correct angles of the grooves the cylinder will not be properly lubricated and you will get rapid failure.

As far as needle bearings...

It is not about being for or against. It is about the facts. First off there is no advantage over bushings. It does not make your steering noticeably easier.
Over the years I have read heard about the problems and successes to conclude that some have good results and others have had failures.

There is a clear history of inconsistent results. So there appears to be some risk to the conversion with no real benefits.

In each case you need to pay a machinist to do work on your box. The work must be done properly (sadly it is not easy finding shops that do quality work).

What I have stated above is not my opinion.
It is what I have learned and verified from experts.
It is all information that can be verified independent of me.
I implore you to take the time to verify what I have stated, please do not take what I say at face value. Look it up from reliable sources and verify and make sure I have not made an error. If I have made an error please explain the correction and where I can go to learn and understand more.

The best mechanic is the one who constantly is willing to learn and expand on what he knows even if it means throwing out what he has been told when new more accurate information comes along.

[Purdy Swoft]

Good for you , Kevin ! smiley face

[Bill in NJ]

I was wondering if any body ever installed a grease fitting in the sector housing to grease the bushings ? Pros and cons ??

[Purdy Swoft]

My first model A ,that I've still got had one when I got it. It has seven tooth steering and I believe that it is original. It has another fitting on top of the steering box. It always seemed to help and maybe tighten up some of the slack when I pumped in grease with the grease gun. I think that is what most use to do. I've seen two tooth sector housing with fittings, some with none and others that they must have had second thoughts and brazed up the hole. Some will say that heavy grease is bad for the steering gear. When I last visited the steering box , I replaced and reamed the sector bushings and replaced other bearings and small parts. The seven tooth column only has two adjustments. after adjustments were made I ended up with only about two inches of backlash. The heavy grease must not have caused as much wear as some would think. After owning this old strip down since 1960 , I didn't worry about the two inches of slack. We only drive it off road. My grand daughter asked Deb if grand daddy could remove some of the slack. I got a new steering shaft with worm and a new sector for Christmas I'll probably soon be removing the steering for a rebuild.