T5 guys TKX

[Tinker]

So I'm not a big T5 transmission swap guy. I'm a fan of the bango as designed and a 3 sp or od, But what does this do for the guys that are looking? Not having to hunt a s10 trans down?


https://americanpowertrain.com/the-a...c-tkx-is-here/

[petehoovie]

[1931 flamingo]

Tremac vs S10 , BIG difference in price............a lot. JMO
Paul in CT

[Bored&Stroked]

It will be a much improved transmission over a T5 NWC box. I've not seen one, but from reading the specs, it is probably more like the modern Magnum tranny, but smaller, lighter duty, etc..

If you've ever shifted a Magnum (which is totally redesigned and not the same as the older TKOs - you feel a really nice smooth engagement, excellent). You have three different shifter locations on the TKX, so with the forward mount, should work pretty well in a Hotrod.

Lastly, you have a whole range of gear ratios - I like the close ratio setup with the .81 overdrive - great setup for one of our cars:

TKX-GearRatios.jpg

[deuce_roadster]

If you drive the old 3 speed box a lot, you will get tired of coming to a stop before shifting into low. If you do it on the move you will eventually ruin the low reverse gear and probably the cluster too.
I have a TKO for my brand X 55 I am building and I will thoroughly enjoy synchronizers in all the gears as well as the OD. I am not thrashing this car like a race car so the 600 ft/lb torque rating is plenty good.

[frnkeore]

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The only thing I don't like about it, is the price of $2800.

[Tinker]

It's not cheap. But it is an interesting transmission that spans a lot of yr uses being somewhat small. The cost of an old t5 trans is just the beginning when converting to open drive.

[V8COOPMAN]

.

This is interesting, so let's do some comparing. The TKO and TKX are both aftermarket transmissions manufactured for hobbyists building cars like "hot rods", "Muscle" cars and healthy street racer types. They are beefy, they can generally survive the torque produced by today's healthy performance engines, and come with enough OD ratio choices that offer acceptable tuning for different "upper speed" requirements, especially when a lumpy, performance cam figures-in to the picture. It's nice to get the RPMs down while tooling-along at higher speeds, but you really don't want your RPMs in 5th gear to go so low with a performance camshaft that you end-up "lugging" the engine at too low of an RPM at normal highway speeds. In other words, that .64 OD ratio MIGHT sound great to get the RPMs down low at say 65-70 mph, but with a performance cam and a lower numerical rear end gear, or larger diameter rear tires, it's possible to get into a situation where you're lugging your engine with that "Gee-Whiz-Lumpety-Lump" camshaft at 1,300 or 1,400 RPMs, and that ain't necessarily good. The older TKO offers a .64, a .68, and an .82 OD ratio for just such occasions.

The new TKX offers a little more diversity with a .68, a .72, and a .81 OD ratio. Since the new TKX and the older TKO can both be had with the same two choices of 'close ratio' gear sets, I would imagine that the slight (1%) difference shown between the .81 and .82 OD ratios is likely a "rounding of numbers" exercise rather than two different (and insignificant) OD ratios.

I own a TKO 600 that I bought new about twelve years ago for $1995, shipped and no tax! This one has the .82 OD and was bought to go behind the lumpy-cammed L76 (365 horse) Corvette engine in my '40 coupe. That car has a '57 Ford 9" with a 3.50 gear, and I just didn't want the revs getting too low at 70 or 75 mph with that cam. And it has a near-perfect 2.87 1st gear.

What I believe we have here in the new TKX is a "re-packaged" TKO, with probably some improved synchronizer pieces, as SOME TKOs have been reported to have problems shifting at over 6,500 RPMs. Tremec claims this new one shifts well up past eight grand. As can be seen by the pictures, the TKX's main and rear cases have been cleaned-up and made more compact when compared with the older TKO. The lumps on top AND the shifter location seem to be lower on the TKX, affording more tunnel room at top of trans. MOST folks ARE NOT going to break either of these transmissions unless 'stupidity' somehow gets into the picture.

So, our poor little T5 tries to remain in the limelight. And it WILL! I've bragged on the T5s for years now. They are such a diverse design. As long as you respect the WC and NWC differences between early ones and late ones, you can swap parts to come-up with all sorts of configurations, as well as different gear ratio sets. ALL main cases are of the same internal dimensions, and they are still easy to find. They are affordable! Pieces are available all over the internet, and assembling them does NOT involve rocket science. And, they can be made to fit most vehicles, and do offer plenty of strength (If YOU'RE CIVILIZED) behind a flathead, or even a little Chevy. All three of these transmissions offer very smooth, solid shifting with a shifter located just a little ways behind the original shifters on Model As thru 1939 Fords. You can build a nice, close-ratio T5 for well less than a grand.
DD






The "TKO" 600




The "TKX"



The Camaro T5/S-10 Tail Shaft Housing






..........

[JSeery]

With just a quick look, it appears that the bellhousing bolt pattern is different, unless it comes in different configurations. Everything I have uses the Ford bolt pattern on the T5, maybe not a big deal, but something to keep in mind.

[38bill]

I don't see anything about multiple shifter locations on the TKX. Did I miss that somewhere?

[Krylon32]

Just watched the promo video by Modern Driveline on the TKX and he implies that there are 3 shifter locations with one of them being a mid shifter similar to the location of the S10 shifter. Judging by the top plate it should be very close?

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by JSeery

With just a quick look, it appears that the bellhousing bolt pattern is different, unless it comes in different configurations. Everything I have uses the Ford bolt pattern on the T5, maybe not a big deal, but something to keep in mind.

The TKX comes in BOTH configurations...Chevy or Ford. I don't think I've ever seen a TKO with other than the standard Chevy pattern, now that I think about it.

[Bored&Stroked]

I agree with most of what V8 Coopman had to say, except I think it isn't all that easy to build a close ratio T5 for under a grand - including the necessary S10 rear section. I don't think I could actually do it (with me doing the work).

Most T5's come with a wide ratio gear set where 1st is practically useless . . . and the standard overdrive ratio is pretty steep (somewhere around .68 to .72 if I remember). I've modified them to put a .82 OD in, but there goes a couple hundred bucks on top of everything else. If you want to buy a close-ratio gear set, it is another $500+ . . . then you have to buy a rebuild kit, new synchros, etc - and do the work. (There goes probably another $150 or so in parts).

My guess is that for an average guy to buy all the stuff to build a close-ratio T5, with a .82 OD, S10 rear housing . . . they're probably going to be well over $1500 - AND, they better know how to rebuild it (and most guys I know are not skilled in transmission rebuilds).

When you start adding it all up (including your time and rebuilding work), buying a new TKX isn't a huge amount of money above that . . .

Okay, just another Flathead Wacko's opinion - which is worth exactly what it cost to read it.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

I agree with most of what V8 Coopman had to say, except I think it isn't all that easy to build a close ratio T5 for under a grand - including the necessary S10 rear section. I don't think I could actually do it (with me doing the work).

Most T5's come with a wide ratio gear set where 1st is practically useless . . . and the standard overdrive ratio is pretty steep (somewhere around .68 to .72 if I remember). I've modified them to put a .82 OD in, but there goes a couple hundred bucks on top of everything else. If you want to buy a close-ratio gear set, it is another $500+ . . . then you have to buy a rebuild kit, new synchros, etc - and do the work. (There goes probably another $150 or so in parts).

My guess is that for an average guy to buy all the stuff to build a close-ratio T5, with a .82 OD, S10 rear housing . . . they're probably going to be well over $1500 - AND, they better know how to rebuild it (and most guys I know are not skilled in transmission rebuilds).

When you start adding it all up (including your time and rebuilding work), buying a new TKX isn't a huge amount of money above that . . .

Okay, just another Flathead Wacko's opinion - which is worth exactly what it cost to read it.

B&S is correct in everything he said above. In fact, if so desired, one can sink obscene amounts of money into a T5. And for any of you folks that don't realize it, B&S involves himself regularly with PRECISION "go-fast" equipment, the likes of which, most mere mortals have no comprehension. So what I'm saying here is that he does things "automotive" in grand style....no quick, BS transmission rebuilds on a makeshift, dirty workbench! Simply put, his normal MO is to re-manufacture to exacting standards, and to modify to extract performance to the nines, and then some! He's kind of a perfectionist, and there ain't a darned thing wrong with that.......PERIOD! So, with that cleared-up, I was essentially speaking of finding (they're still out there at swap meets) a greasy old '83-'87 Camaro V8 NWC T5 for $250-ish, which comes with the close ratio (2.95 1st gear) set. Another $150-ish for a simple bearing and synchronizer rebuild package, another $150-$200 for an S-10 tail shaft housing on eBay, a matching short rail shifter lid for $50 or so, another very generous $100 allowance for incidentals, and anybody with a press and some reasonable transmission savvy has that basic, decent-shifting, reasonably fresh T5 transmission with the forward-position shifter, and a .63 OD ratio that worked just fine in factory Camaros with 3.42 rear ends. Anything even close, ratio wise for a rear end gear is going to be compatible with that trans. And as long as none of the gears or major pieces have been trashed inside your starter trans, refreshing with a rebuild package SHOULD put most transmissions back on the road successfully for the average hobbyist.

Believe me, I understand the advantages of tailoring precise gear ratios when considering the likes of rear end ratio, tire size, camshaft, power bands, and more. That's precisely why my TKO was bought with a .82 OD ratio and the 2.87 1st gear. But the point here is that it is still possible to freshen a close ratio T5 that can put many happy (s)miles on your face for a grand or less.....with a .63 OD ratio! DD





........

[Bored&Stroked]

Oh Hell V8 Coopman . . . I only wish I was a mere fraction of what you spelled out as my 'MO' up above.

If a guy was good at scrounging up all the right parts from cheap sources, they might be able to do it. Maybe when I "scrounge" I find the most expensive sources - then pay them extra for their time. Or, maybe I'm always in a damn hurry (as every project I work on, I seem to be LATE on . . . so then I have to pay a premium).

This has been a good thread . . . and believe me, I want to take my TKO and NOT put it in my 34 Coupe (blown Early Hemi) - and buy a damn TKX!

It is such a better looking transmission than the beast of a trans the TKO is. LOL Also, I bet it has the much improved shifter system that the Magnum has . . . like BUTTER, even at high RPMs!

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Oh Hell V8 Coopman . . . I only wish I was a mere fraction of what you spelled out as my 'MO' up above.

If a guy was good at scrounging up all the right parts from cheap sources, they might be able to do it. Maybe when I "scrounge" I find the most expensive sources - then pay them extra for their time. Or, maybe I'm always in a damn hurry (as every project I work on, I seem to be LATE on . . . so then I have to pay a premium).

This has been a good thread . . . and believe me, I want to take my TKO and NOT put it in my 34 Coupe (blown Early Hemi) - and buy a damn TKX!

It is such a better looking transmission than the beast of a trans the TKO is. LOL Also, I bet it has the much improved shifter system that the Magnum has . . . like BUTTER, even at high RPMs!

I'm sure you're right on EVERY point here. That TKX sure is a boatload better LOOKING than the TKO. Frankly, I never understood why the TKO was so 'busy'-looking with stuff stickin'-out all over. DD

[JSeery]

I was buying T5zs through Ford Motor Sports for under $1,200 with free delivery to the dealer. Purchased a lot of them at that price, then the price jumped up about another K! I think they are down in price a little now, but the cheap ones are no more.

[itslow]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

What I believe we have here in the new TKX is a "re-packaged" TKO, with probably some improved synchronizer pieces, as SOME TKOs have been reported to have problems shifting at over 6,500 RPMs. Tremec claims this new one shifts well up past eight grand. As can be seen by the pictures, the TKX's main and rear cases have been cleaned-up and made more compact when compared with the older TKO. The lumps on top AND the shifter location seem to be lower on the TKX, affording more tunnel room at top of trans.

I would agree. It even shares some of the exact same boss and rib geometry at the bellhousing flange and in the tail shaft housing.

I don't really consider this to be a replacement for the T5. It's a replacement for the TKO500/600 to make it more muscle car friendly.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by itslow

I would agree. It even shares some of the exact same boss and rib geometry at the bellhousing flange and in the tail shaft housing.

I don't really consider this to be a replacement for the T5. It's a replacement for the TKO500/600 to make it more muscle car friendly.

Absolutely concur! T5 is a whole different class of animal, yet just fine for flatheads and small Chevys......if driven sanely. DD

[38bill]

Good thing is that maybe it will free up more of the old T5's for our flatheads.

[Krylon32]

We have a fairly good supply of S10 T5 cores with the electric speedo sender but the supply of good mechanical speedo trans cores has just about dried up.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Krylon32

We have a fairly good supply of S10 T5 cores with the electric speedo sender but the supply of mechanical speedo trans cores has just about dried up.

They're not as plentiful as they used to be, but they're still out there. A lot easier to find than a "GOOD" flathead block, for sure! DD

[jrvariel48]

I'm digging this up a year later.
Does anyone know if the T5 and TKX are the same size? I'm wondering if this would fit in a 35 coupe. I have a T5 in there now.

[tubman]

I'd like to know also; it seems that this question was not answered (at least not unequivocally) in the original thread.

[Krylon32]

Addressing my post of a year ago our core supply of S10 T5's has diminished. We are still taking orders but I don't know for how long. I am starting a new FH powered deuce roadster and if I could get a TKX with the right length input shaft and bearing retainer I would use one. I did inquire about the front shifter and they said if it became available it would add about 300 to the cost.

[V8COOPMAN]

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Originally Posted by Krylon32

Addressing my post of a year ago our core supply of S10 T5's has diminished. We are still taking orders but I don't know for how long. I am starting a new FH powered deuce roadster and if I could get a TKX with the right length input shaft and bearing retainer I would use one. I did inquire about the front shifter and they said if it became available it would add about 300 to the cost.

Gary ....I realize that your T5 experience is probably mostly geared toward YOUR proprietary adapter. Somehow, I have the idea that your T5 adapters were based on some form of FORD T5, rather than being based on the GM variants. When you get around to the input shaft lengths found in the close-ratio Camaro/Firebird V8 T5s with the 26-spline input shaft, they are generally shorter than the Ford shafts, and as such seem better fitted to bolting-up to a flathead using the one-piece cast adapters that accommodate the GM (Muncie) transmission case pattern. I'd look into the specs on a Chevy-type TKX, as it must surely be built to bolt-up to all of the go-fast Chevys out there, just like the GM T5s are. DD

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by jrvariel48

I'm digging this up a year later.
Does anyone know if the T5 and TKX are the same size? I'm wondering if this would fit in a 35 coupe. I have a T5 in there now.

I guess it would depend on what you did to your center crossmember to accommodate the T5. '35 & '40 frames are same general shape/size throughout, and I had a TKO 600 bolted into my '40 coupe. The TKX looks to be much cleaned-up, compared to the TKO. I would imagine a TKX would POSSIBLY go a little bit easier than a TKO. I can tell you that the TKO is larger than a T5, for sure. DD

[jrvariel48]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

I guess it would depend on what you did to your center crossmember to accommodate the T5. '35 & '40 frames are same general shape/size throughout, and I had a TKO 600 bolted into my '40 coupe. The TKX looks to be much cleaned-up, compared to the TKO. I would imagine a TKX would POSSIBLY go a little bit easier than a TKO. I can tell you that the TKO is larger than a T5, for sure. DD

Hey V8, I used Weedetr's crossmember. Here's the link.

https://www.weedetrstreetrod.com/eco...5-40-ford.html

I'm more concerned with shifter location and overall length.
Thanks, Joe

[robib]

What does it cost to buy and rebuild a Toploader or buy one that has been rebuilt?

[Krylon32]

I don't know about a top loader but we get 1430.00 for a rebuilt S10 T5. That price includes a 1 year guarantee and shipping to any of the lower 48.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by jrvariel48

Hey V8, I used Weedetr's crossmember. Here's the link.

I'm more concerned with shifter location and overall length.
Thanks, Joe

Hey Joe ....The picture below is NOT my TKO/'40, but belongs to a Ford Barn member...can't remember name. I looked for this picture for three hours! But the setup is virtually the same as mine, and the replacement cross member is very much just like yours. I remember that I had to trim a slot in the top portion of mine too, to clear the rear-most shifter location boss. It'll go! And your blown flatty ain't gonna break that TKO. Dick D

[jrvariel48]

Well I see Speedway sells the TKX. I "assume" the input shaft measurements are good for the flywheel and pilot bushing. Now to find out if the tailshaft mount is the same distance from the front of the trans as the T5.
Anyone install a TKX?
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Treme...n-,107160.html

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by jrvariel48

Well I see Speedway sells the TKX. I "assume" the input shaft measurements are good for the flywheel and pilot bushing. Now to find out if the tailshaft mount is the same distance from the front of the trans as the T5.
Anyone install a TKX?
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Treme...n-,107160.html

Joe ....I can't remember for sure which rear gear that you went with, but DO NOT overlook other optional gear ratios offered in the TKX line-up. For instance: This part number is the GM fitment with 2.87:1 1st gear and 0.81:1 5th gear overdrive and 26 spline input shaft. This ratio is more like a smooth progression to a 5th gear, rather than a shift to an overdrive, although it is a true O/D. What rear end ratio did you change to?

That sure is a bunch of money from Speedway. Seems like the trans alone can be had for about $2,800. DD

[tubman]

I just clicked the link to look at it. I see they are saving you $319.01 and you still have to supply some of your own parts. I scrolled down the page, and some of their prices shocked me.

I will be continuing with my project of putting a stock OD setup in my car.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by tubman

I just clicked the link to look at it. I see they are saving you $319.01 and you still have to supply some of your own parts. I scrolled down the page, and some of their prices shocked me.

I will be continuing with my project of putting a stock OD setup in my car.

Denny .....Pretty sure that the *OEM 3" Adapter Bellhousing that Speedway notes is one of the cast or Merc stamped-steel half-bells that need to be used on ANY 8BA standard shift set-up.....An UNDERSTANDABLE note. But I agree that as you noted, some of the pricing of ancillary pieces is NOT friendly!

On the other hand, if you ever drove one of these, or even a properly-geared T5 behind YOUR engine, you'd leave that stock O/D trans on the bottom shelf of your work bench! DD

[tubman]

Not for four grand (plus all the labor) I wouldn't! And, I already have the half-bell and starter plate (both types).

Anyway, I've got all of the ancillary stuff (lockout cable, relay, kickdown switch, and the wiring harness) already in. Now, to just install the transmission. The 4 speed in my Corvette is getting to be too much for me; I like the idea of "clutch-less" driving in 2nd OD.

[jrvariel48]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Joe ....I can't remember for sure which rear gear that you went with, but DO NOT overlook other optional gear ratios offered in the TKX line-up. For instance: This part number is the GM fitment with 2.87:1 1st gear and 0.81:1 5th gear overdrive and 26 spline input shaft. This ratio is more like a smooth progression to a 5th gear, rather than a shift to an overdrive, although it is a true O/D. What rear end ratio did you change to?

That sure is a bunch of money from Speedway. Seems like the trans alone can be had for about $2,800. DD

Hey V8, I went with the 4.11 rear ratio. I think the 2.87 with the .81 overdrive will work out nicely!
Thanks,
Joe

[jrvariel48]

Originally Posted by tubman

I just clicked the link to look at it. I see they are saving you $319.01 and you still have to supply some of your own parts. I scrolled down the page, and some of their prices shocked me.

I will be continuing with my project of putting a stock OD setup in my car.

Definitely not a cheap set-up if you're starting from the beginning.
For me, it'll be some minor alterations as I already have the correct clutch, bellhousing etc. I'm still trying to find out about the shifter & mount location.
I'll call Modern Driveline tomorrow.
Thanks, Joe

[Bored&Stroked]

I had my TKO reworked for a mid-shifter . . . gives one a much better shifter location. Would like to know what a mid-shifter TKX transmission would cost. Not that I'm in a hurry to buy one, but I'm pondering something different for an off-topic installation.

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by tubman

I will be continuing with my project of putting a stock OD setup in my car.

It's a resto and streetrod world we live in. I just "putt" along. Guess it's weird I made this post. Just including everyone....




.

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

I had my TKO reworked for a mid-shifter . . . gives one a much better shifter location. Would like to know what a mid-shifter TKX transmission would cost. Not that I'm in a hurry to buy one, but I'm pondering something different for an off-topic installation.

Not cheap.

https://threepedals.com/products/cra...-1st-0-81-5th/


https://americanpowertrain.com/produ...s/tkx-5-speed/