Slightly OT '53 six issue

[41ford1]

Ran the '53 Six cylinder Courier to the Florida Bash via the AutoTrain. We ran in to the problem of misfire and popping in the exhaust at highway speeds. This condition got progressively worse coming home. I went though a few steps on the trip from Lorton, VA to New Hampshire. First was a carb cleanout before we left Lorton. Second was a change of plug wires and plugs just north of Baltimore. Both of these "fixes" made it run better for a while. The misfire/popping returned in north New Jersey. I noticed the distributor cap was quite dirty. Cleaned it with carb cleaner and tightened the cam cover. The misfire and popping went away until the Conn./Mass. border. When the timing was checked with a light the day after getting home it was bouncing around 2° to 12° at idle. There was also a new noise at the front of the engine. I figured I might have a worn timing chain. The attached pic shows the chain. The slack side measures slightly over 1/2". With the crank held the cam moves about 20°. Pics of the replacement will follow if you guys want it. Post here if you do.

[tdlmomowers]

Had the same problem with a Pontiac engine years ago. Tore the timing cover off and the chain was loose, about like yours. Replaced the gears and chain and it ran great.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Hey Chuck, it may not be a '32-'53 flathead but it's an early Ford engine and we can all learn something from this. Please post more pictures with follow up information.

I had something similar to this going on with my '35 fordor at the end of the Maine Tour and on my way to and from Hershey last year. Engine was running very poorly, missing, popping, bucking, probably running on four of eight. I almost did not get up my driveway returning from Hershey @ ~ 12:00 midnight. My problem turned out to be a bad condenser on the distributor. Running like a charm now though .

[BILL WZOREK]

Hi Chuck:

Yes please keep posting, information is information I am sure is will be usefull to some.
( me included) FIX UM & RUN UM

[41ford1]

Originally Posted by tdlmomowers

Had the same problem with a Pontiac engine years ago. Tore the timing cover off and the chain was loose, about like yours. Replaced the gears and chain and it ran great.

I too had a Pontiac with the same problem years ago. Ran great until the morning it didn't start. The chain broke in that one.

Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan

Hey Chuck, it may not be a '32-'53 flathead but it's an early Ford engine and we can all learn something from this. Please post more pictures with follow up information.

I had something similar to this going on with my '35 fordor at the end of the Maine Tour and on my way to and from Hershey last year. Engine was running very poorly, missing, popping, bucking, probably running on four of eight. I almost did not get up my driveway returning from Hershey @ ~ 12:00 midnight. My problem turned out to be a bad condenser on the distributor. Running like a charm now though .

John, The condensor was one of the first things changed. I tried the simple things before going deeper. This engine never idled smooth. I thought that might be the carbs. That symptom may have been an indicator of the wearing chain. This engine still pulled strong under load. the misfire shows up while lightly loaded on the highway.

[Henry/Kokomo]

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Chuck -

Would definitely like to see the "after" pictures.

Had an "off brand" V8 one time that just suddenly completely died. No rough running, it just stopped. Twisted the nose out of the camshaft. Wierd things happen.

[rotorwrench]

When it was fiber gears we change out worn fiber gears, when it went to chains & plastic tooth gears we replaced worn plastic tooth gears & chains, when it went to timing belts we changed worn belts. And the beat goes on. Most lasted over 100,000 miles but it always depended on whether it had a manual transmission and used the engine for a brake and how hard you were on the vehicle. Automatics & overdrives were a little easier on things unless you were a hot rodder.

[Frank Miller]

It is still a flathead. I can see how the timing would bounce around as the cam would speed up slightly when the valve was closing and then the chain would need to tighten again to open the next valve.

[rotorwrench]

1952 was the intro year for FoMoCo's first OHV inline 6. A 215 cid if I remember correctly. It was also the intro for the Y-block V8 in big trucks & Lincolns.

[Vic Piano]

Chuck, glad you, Karen and the Courier got home safely. Like others have said, I love to see pics of the fix. Vic

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Originally Posted by 41ford1

Ran the '53 Six cylinder Courier to the Florida Bash via the AutoTrain. We ran in to the problem of misfire and popping in the exhaust at highway speeds. This condition got progressively worse coming home. I went though a few steps on the trip from Lorton, VA to New Hampshire. First was a carb cleanout before we left Lorton. Second was a change of plug wires and plugs just north of Baltimore. Both of these "fixes" made it run better for a while. The misfire/popping returned in north New Jersey. I noticed the distributor cap was quite dirty. Cleaned it with carb cleaner and tightened the cam cover. The misfire and popping went away until the Conn./Mass. border. When the timing was checked with a light the day after getting home it was bouncing around 2° to 12° at idle. There was also a new noise at the front of the engine. I figured I might have a worn timing chain. The attached pic shows the chain. The slack side measures slightly over 1/2". With the crank held the cam moves about 20°. Pics of the replacement will follow if you guys want it. Post here if you do.

Well, here's my 2 cents. The chain is loose but I don't think it's loose enough to jump a thooth. SO, I don't think that's your problem. You've got the cover off so go ahead and change the gears and chain. Let us know how you make out. Walt

[41ford1]

Rotorwrench is right the '52 & '53 215" is the first Ford OHV six. '54 the displacement went to 223" with a bore increase. In '54 the distributor moved from the center to the front of the block to accomodate a suspension redesign. Most parts are interchangable between the two.
The parts came today. I'll be getting to it in the morning. Stay tuned.

[B-O-B]

I agree with Walt. Just don't see enough slop in the chain kinda like Ol Ron tho my peepers ain't peepin as good as they once did.

[chuck stevens]

Chuck, Glad you guys made it home ok, the only way to find these problems is to drive them. On the way back from Tarpon Springs Kath and I ran into one H__L of a down pour... good thing the courier didn't quit then. Hope the repair goes good, have a good time on your trip, Chuck S.

[41ford1]

The new chain got installed this afternoon and every thing is buttoned up. It even runs. The total deflection is slightly less than 3/32". The idle is smoother than its ever been. The noise at the front of the engine is gone. I believe Walt and Bob are correct that the root problem was not the timing chain. Changing it certainly helped. The misfire/popping is gone but there is what feels like a carb problem. Sooo, back into the Holley 1904s I go.

[BILL WZOREK]

Chuck , Thats GREAT / love when a plan comes together !!!!

[chuck stevens]

Chuck, Here's an idea, pull the plugs and check for one or two that are real white or lighter than the others. I have a 300 six in my f-100 with an after market intake and carb, and found that it wasn't sealing good aginst the head. I ended up using two gaskets to get it to seal. If you think it's a vacumn leak, spray some WD40 on the gaskets while it's running. If it still runs ragged, pull the valve cover and start it up, and look for a rocker arm thats not moving as much as the others, bad cam. Just a thought, Chuck S.

Originally Posted by 41ford1

The new chain got installed this afternoon and every thing is buttoned up. It even runs. The total deflection is slightly less than 3/32". The idle is smoother than its ever been. The noise at the front of the engine is gone. I believe Walt and Bob are correct that the root problem was not the timing chain. Changing it certainly helped. The misfire/popping is gone but there is what feels like a carb problem. Sooo, back into the Holley 1904s I go.

[41ford1]

Originally Posted by chuck stevens

Chuck, Here's an idea, pull the plugs and check for one or two that are real white or lighter than the others. I have a 300 six in my f-100 with an after market intake and carb, and found that it wasn't sealing good aginst the head. I ended up using two gaskets to get it to seal. If you think it's a vacumn leak, spray some WD40 on the gaskets while it's running. If it still runs ragged, pull the valve cover and start it up, and look for a rocker arm thats not moving as much as the others, bad cam. Just a thought, Chuck S.

All the plugs got pulled when I changed the chain. The burn looks pretty even from 1 to 6. Thanks for the tips. I'll let you know what turns up. So, what manifold are you running on the 300"?

[Steves46]

Hi Chuck. Despite the technical difficulties I am glad Karen and you made it home safely. Those Holley 1904s are certainly touchy and can almost drive you crazy. Ask me how I know. Anyhow, I hope you are able to isolate the root cause. Steve

[rotorwrench]

I seem to remember a glass float bowl on the 52 & 53 carburetors. You could tell if the float was sticking or not unless varnish build up would sort of stain the glass.

[41ford1]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

I seem to remember a glass float bowl on the 52 & 53 carburetors. You could tell if the float was sticking or not unless varnish build up would sort of stain the glass.

I know those well. I had a couple of Falcons in the '60s that had the glass bowls. The Courier has an Offy 2 carb manifold with 2 metal bowl 1904s on it. I went in to the second carb today. Everything inside appears clean with the exception of a fine black gritty substance that sinks to bottom. The inline filter that is installed before the backup electric pump close to the tank is clear. I've only used the electric to prime the carb after the car has been sitting a while. Bad gas or a disintergating mechanical pump? The mystery continues.

[chuck stevens]

It's a clifford, with a Holley 390. Not the best but, a lot better than the single barrel that it came with.

Originally Posted by 41ford1

All the plugs got pulled when I changed the chain. The burn looks pretty even from 1 to 6. Thanks for the tips. I'll let you know what turns up. So, what manifold are you running on the 300"?

[41ford1]

Originally Posted by chuck stevens

I have a 300 six in my f-100 with an after market intake and carb, and found that it wasn't sealing good aginst the head. I ended up using two gaskets to get it to seal. If you think it's a vacumn leak, spray some WD40 on the gaskets while it's running.

Excellent suggestion. I cleaned out the second carb. Started up and runs better. I ran your test with carb cleaner. No change when cold. Ran it a 1/2 hour it to fully warm up. I did the test again. The back manifold runner to the head has a slight leak. Tried tightening the two bolts on that runner. It made things a bit better. Its looking like a gasket replacement is in my future.

[chuck stevens]

Great, I know you use this car alot and getting those bugs worked out is a must. This junky gasoline doesn't help, I had to go to bigger main jets in my 39. I runs better but MPG is way down. Good luck, Chuck S.

[41ford1]

Well this saga continues. What I thought was a cure was not. I posted on the '54 & up section. http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111288