Toe-in Adj. tool

[J Franklin]

Was that at a Ford dealership?

[ford31]

I use local tire shop they check everything

[marc hildebrant]

My experience with local tire stores for Model A work was not good. The major chains and the local garage all told me that they could not check the toe-in on my car. Most of the reasons were that they didn't want to scratch the paint !

I decided that I would check it myself, and after using the instructions from the Ford service bulletins/Marco's web site, I did it myself.

The driving improved after the adjustment and I have more hands on experience with my car.

Marc

[Jerry Parr WI]

Originally Posted by 1930 coupe

another heads up
The scale on the Duby is not calibrated for a Model A Ford, it is calibrated to show the amount of toe-in or toe-out on the tread at hub level with a 8 inch chain on a modern car. Shorten the chain to 6 inches and mark the scale at 1/16 inch with a ruler, notice 1 inch on the ruler is not the same as 1 inch on the scale.

The toe in spec is given at hub level or the center of the wheel. The gauge indications are intended to compensate for the fact that you are not measuring at the center of the wheel so they are not ruler measurements. Changing the chain length would also affect that compensation. The shorter the chains the more compensation necessary. At true wheel center no compensation is necessary so ruler measurements would apply.

[Purdy Swoft]

You can't measure the rear of the wheel- tire toe in any higher than the level of the wishbone-radius rod. Wheel and tire size will also effect the distance from the floor . I set mine at the level of the wishbone. The center of the hub would be optimum. If the frame is sagged or the motor mounts are allowing the engine to ride low, it will effect the level of the wishbone and the outcome of any adjustments that are made . Common sense tells me that there is No exact level from the floor that will be correct in all cases, Too many varyables.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

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Dang! just found why I walk funny & run over stuff, scuff marks on my shoes are from the INSIDE to the OUTSIDE! Is that "TOE OUT"??? How can I correct it??? Bill W.

[Blessyouboys]

Originally Posted by 1930 coupe

I am confused, I agree the spec for modern cars is at the center of the wheel. Is the 1/16 inch on a model A at the hub or 6 inches from the floor. I looked at Marco's instructions and it seems the 1/16 is at 6 inches. I am confused and need help.

The measurement is at 6 inches above the floor.

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by Jerry Parr WI

The toe in spec is given at hub level or the center of the wheel. The gauge indications are intended to compensate for the fact that you are not measuring at the center of the wheel so they are not ruler measurements. Changing the chain length would also affect that compensation. The shorter the chains the more compensation necessary. At true wheel center no compensation is necessary so ruler measurements would apply.

The problem with attempting to compensate AS IF you were setting at the center of the wheel is that you would need various chains for different wheel/tire sizes based on the outside diameter.

Below is pic of the tag from my original gauge. Have you seen an original done differently?

[Jerry Parr WI]

Originally Posted by 1930 coupe

I am confused, I agree the spec for modern cars is at the center of the wheel. Is the 1/16 inch on a model A at the hub or 6 inches from the floor. I looked at Marco's instructions and it seems the 1/16 is at 6 inches. I am confused and need help.

The service bulletin gives the toe in spec with no mention of any special location so the assumption has to be to common standard which is wheel center. The reason for measuring below center as Purdy states is to clear suspension hardware. The Duby gauge was designed to read below center and compensates for the distance from center with the gauge that reads toe in inches not true inches. The chains can be any length so long as the gauge compensates for that length. I agree Marco's explanation seem to indicate otherwise but the reference does not indicate that the dimension or gauge are other than standard. Hopefully he will weigh in with any other source. The Duby gauge assumes some wheel height to the center so some compensation for height may be warranted. The service bulletins are from 1928 so it's possible a 19 inch wheel would be slightly different. I did make a quick check of some moderns for reference. The center of an Escape is exactly the same as a 19 inch Model A, a Mustang is lower and my truck is higher. I don't have a car with 21 inch so I can't check that.

[Purdy Swoft]

I realize now that differenmt tools for setting toe in have different instructions for their use. Mine is just a cheap one and not like the original design. I won't bother to go out to the shop and copy the instructions. No harm meant.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by 1930 coupe

Just a heads up.
Brown Truck delivered my Duby Wheel Alignment Gage today, the chains are supposed to be 6 inches long, mine were 8 inches long, took out a couple of links and the dog's tail started wagging. If you have a Duby you need to check your chains.

Hey Coupe,
You gotta' smart dog, too! When Chief got a "new" Model A going, after a 16 mile trip to town on the smooooth highway, he'd look at the front tires for wear/scuffing, then decide if he needed to go to Buddy Bogg's Local Unauthorized Ford Place for some alignment "TWEEKING!" Then off to"The Little Gem Cafe" for Chicken Fried Steak! Bill W.

[Jerry Parr WI]

Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras

The problem with attempting to compensate AS IF you were setting at the center of the wheel is that you would need various chains for different wheel/tire sizes based on the outside diameter.

Below is pic of the tag from my original gauge. Have you seen an original done differently?

Thanks Marco that does explain your calculations based on your gauge. The attempt to compensate must be a later gauge feature. A question now is are you indicating the specification is intended to be at the 6 in point or at the center of the tire?

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by Jerry Parr WI

Thanks Marco that does explain your calculations based on your gauge. The attempt to compensate must be a later gauge feature. A question now is are you indicating the specification is intended to be at the 6 in point or at the center of the tire?

The very first entry in the Bulletins on this subject provides a measurement for toe-in and shows how to use the gauge at 6" from the floor. For that reason I was always convinced that the given measurement was specifically for that location.

I reviewed some of my material again and did SEVERAL calculations to see how it played out and it's pretty clear my assumptions were correct. First, the camber calculates out to 2 degrees +/- (per wheel) when the cars were new based on measurements provided. Now, when Ford implemented the use of alignment equipment in 1936 they specified a MAX camber of 2 degrees on Model A's and many other models. They specified the toe-in at 3/32" which is very close to what I suggest on my page for taking the measurement at the tire tread fore and aft of the centerline.

In addition to the measurement provided in 1936 they included a footnote regarding toe-in and stated that toe-in is directly relative to camber which I had also read in my old Dykes manual. Ford stated that for all models as of 1936 the the toe-in should be 1/10 of the camber. That would mean when they were new the toe-in would have been at .2 degrees per wheel. I'm emphasizing "per wheel" in case anyone else wants to run their own calculations to confirm. When specific dimensions are provided as in the Bulletins they include the total difference between the two wheels. That difference must be divided by 2 before converting to degrees.

As a final note, in 1936 Ford specified a minimum camber of 1/4 degree was acceptable as long as there was no more than 1/4 degree difference AND the right wheel never has more camber than the left wheel. If one had the minimum camber the proper toe-in with my Duby gauge would be 1/128" or essentially zero. I bring this up because most folks probably have 1 degree or less on their camber so maximum tire wear would require a reduction in toe-in from the new car specification .

[tony1940]

Originally Posted by DosCoupe

Recently, I asked some question about 1932 Ford front end specifications and got a lot of great answers. The local Ford garage dialed my front in at 1/2 degree - laser methodology. Tires are now wearing even and we track much better in a cross wind. Mine had too much tow out, with similar disatrous tread wear.

Local Ford garage that does Model A's or any car? TIA

[Chuck Kuntz]

That 2 common pin method was mine.. I have never had any problems with it. Been doing it for over 60 years.
Chuck

[Afordman31]

This is the one I made. I use two straight pins pushed in the tread, set the pointer on the toe in fixture, push the car forward so the pins are on the front side of the tire, move the toe in fixture to the front of the tire and see the difference whether to toe in or toe out!
I have used this on four Model A's and have been very satisfied!

[katy]

Toe-in plates work pretty good.

[Gwill65074]

I used a 1" round spring loaded curtain/shower rod and it works just great. Kinda like yor flat rod.