Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-11-2015, 07:43 PM   #21
1931 flamingo
Senior Member
 
1931 flamingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: new britain,ct 06052
Posts: 9,389
Default Re: Need help! working on camber issue / '48 Coupe

Doesn't look like a monoleaf spring to me or am I mistaken?? Might not possibly be the first time................
Paul in CT
1931 flamingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2015, 08:17 PM   #22
Peteva
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 28
Default Re: Need help! working on camber issue / '48 Coupe

If you Google "camber, toe & castor- the difference" there is quite an explanation mostly for early Fords including an illustration of a bending device. Then immediately following this there is another write up with further details. One of the problems is measuring what you have done. If you go to Amazon there are camber and castor gauges for sale at varying prices.

Peteva
Peteva is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 05-11-2015, 09:51 PM   #23
ford38v8
Senior Member
 
ford38v8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 6,616
Default Re: Need help! working on camber issue / '48 Coupe

Quote:
Originally Posted by George/Maine View Post
...I would buy the right front end parts and bring it back to standard.
I think George has your best option here. While kudos are due the enterprising engineer that attempts a project like yours, unfortunately they are usually unsuccessful no matter how much time and money is invested. Importantly, the public highway is not a suitable proving ground for innovation in this day and age.
__________________
Alan
ford38v8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 06:25 AM   #24
George/Maine
Senior Member
 
George/Maine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mid coast Maine
Posts: 1,878
Default Re: Need help! working on camber issue / '48 Coupe

I think they swapped the spindles putting left on right side.
This would cause the camber to be wrong.
George/Maine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 07:45 AM   #25
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 8,733
Default Re: Need help! working on camber issue / '48 Coupe

I haven't a clue as to how they have got the steering arms on the top sticking forward. They haven't turned the spindles 180 degrees because the camber would have massive amounts of negative camber. I suspect the steering arms may be welded on and these should be carefully inspected for integrity.

The conversion to r n p is not a great idea, the way it has been done.

To be honest, the angle of the front wheels does not look that far out of whack in the pictures, but it could be just be the angle the shot is taken from.

I would be very wary of driving that car as you have to trust the work carried out by someone else.

The 46-48s steer very well as stock with the panhard rods fitted front and rear.

If donor parts are available I would consider converting back to stock.

Mart.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 09:16 AM   #26
Bruce Lancaster
Member Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Madison, NJ
Posts: 5,230
Default Re: Need help! working on camber issue / '48 Coupe

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Some of the possibilities on the spindles are frightening, but look at the R&P first. Attached to frame, with short rods angling down to the spindles...this thing looks like a demonstrator for bump steer! The installation is fundamentally screwed up, a severe design problem and not an adjustment problem.
Ditch it first thing...either original steering or one of the many GM replacement steerings that go in stock location will be MUCH better.
Bruce Lancaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 09:19 AM   #27
Ralph Moore
Senior Member
 
Ralph Moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Pole, Alaska
Posts: 1,470
Default Re: Need help! working on camber issue / '48 Coupe

Looks like someone flipped the spindles upside down to achieve forward facing steering arms. By doing this you would get more positive camber.
Ralph Moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 09:20 AM   #28
V12Bill
Senior Member
 
V12Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mt. Holly,NJ
Posts: 1,822
Default Re: Need help! working on camber issue / '48 Coupe

In order to have the steering in front and on top the spinles were reversed and installed upside down. This is definitely going to cause problems.
V12Bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 09:23 AM   #29
John R
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: near Washington, DC
Posts: 558
Default Re: Need help! working on camber issue / '48 Coupe

Quote:
Originally Posted by ford38v8 View Post
....Importantly, the public highway is not a suitable proving ground for innovation in this day and age.
2X on that!
__________________
Those who do not move do not die, but are they not already dead?
John R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 09:27 AM   #30
Bruce Lancaster
Member Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Madison, NJ
Posts: 5,230
Default Re: Need help! working on camber issue / '48 Coupe

Well, on this the steering was installed without ANY attempt to get it to work with suspension movement. Whoever did that had major gaps in his understanding of steering.
Tossing the R&P and reversing whatever happened to the poor spindles will get the suspension back to functional, and there is no problem getting either original or aftermarket cross steer boxes to fit a 48.
Bruce Lancaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 10:11 AM   #31
V8COOPMAN
Senior Member
 
V8COOPMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON
Posts: 11,106
Default Re: Need help! working on camber issue / '48 Coupe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Moore View Post
Looks like someone flipped the spindles upside down to achieve forward facing steering arms. By doing this you would get more positive camber.
That's exactly what some ignant SOB did, and I DO mean IGNANT! The king pin angle built into each spindle explains the goofy camber result. Lord help us, and keep that junk off of any public road. DD

__________________
Click Links Below __


'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN


T5 W/TORQUE TUBE
V8COOPMAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 10:52 AM   #32
JSeery
Member Emeritus
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 16,132
Default Re: Need help! working on camber issue / '48 Coupe

And there will be no Ackerman with this setup. Not to sure you have to worry too much about this being on the road, this is so messed up not sure it would be drivable!
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 10:53 AM   #33
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 8,733
Default Re: Need help! working on camber issue / '48 Coupe

Guys, if the spindles were installed upside down there would be about 15 degrees negative camber (top in, bottom out). I can't see that in the pics.

Who knows what has been done without some detailed pics of all the parts concerned.

The rack installation has some serious (deadly serious, maybe) design flaws.

The angle of the shackles would also seem to indicate the panhard rod is not holding the axle central.

Mart.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 11:13 AM   #34
apairof66s
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 21
Default Re: Need help! working on camber issue / '48 Coupe

Thanks for the reply. It looks like kingpins. The 11 inch brakes look original as well.
If we can't fix what's there then we'll have to decide which way to go.....
apairof66s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 11:21 AM   #35
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 8,733
Default Re: Need help! working on camber issue / '48 Coupe

Those are 12" early ford hydraulics (stock brakes for that car).

(Not trying to be a smart ass.)

Mart.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 11:28 AM   #36
apairof66s
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 21
Default Re: Need help! working on camber issue / '48 Coupe

Quote:
Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN View Post
That's exactly what some ignant SOB did, and I DO mean IGNANT! The king pin angle built into each spindle explains the goofy camber result. Lord help us, and keep that junk off of any public road. DD


This is the can of worms I was handed !!!
The same so called SOB installed a Ford 302 V8, o/d C4 or 5 trans , (not sure) and a ford 9 inch rear end all from a '85 !
I was surprised not to see chevy running gear on this old of a car, but that's another topic.
Now that we've got it running and driving (not out on "public" roads !! )
this whole front end mess has to be fixed !!
apairof66s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 11:46 AM   #37
Bruce Lancaster
Member Emeritus
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Madison, NJ
Posts: 5,230
Default Re: Need help! working on camber issue / '48 Coupe

Fix spindles...if cut and welded, the street rod bolt on steering arms may save'em. Go back to cross steer---either Ford or one of the many streetrod replacement steerings with CH boxes. The placement of the R&P guarantees LOTS of bumpsteer and is completely wrong...it MUST go.
Bruce Lancaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 12:07 PM   #38
JSeery
Member Emeritus
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 16,132
Default Re: Need help! working on camber issue / '48 Coupe

I also suggest coverting it back to cross steer. Should be fairly easy with a set of bolt on steering arms. That may be what's on there, may be able to remove them and bolt them on there correctly.
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 12:11 PM   #39
woodiewagon46
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 1,551
Default Re: Need help! working on camber issue / '48 Coupe

This is a totally different issue than "excessive negative castor" and how I advised a fix. It looks like you have a stock axle, pan hard bar and spring, I don't see a mono leaf unless you just installed it after these pictures. I would basically start from scratch. Remove all the stuff you know won't work, as most have advised on this site. Get the spindles on their correct sides and hook up the ty-rod. I would then figure out what you are trying to accomplish. Do you want power steering, power disc brakes etc.,if so there are many kits available. You can't make chicken salad from chicken S**t.
woodiewagon46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2015, 01:30 PM   #40
scooder
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,593
Default Re: Need help! working on camber issue / '48 Coupe

Buddy backup time,
As Mart said if you swap spindles down side up, you will get a bunch of negative camber. Top in bottom out.
Your gonna have to tug the front to bits to find out what nasty stuff has been done. I'm wondering if it's got Econaline spindles on it or such like.
That rack setup needs to be thrown over the nearest hedge, and anything else Fonzy did to this car. The whole steering is a botch job. A rack like that, mounted like that will never maintain anything like a decent geometry.
Cross steer box, power or stock with stock spindles and steering arms will work perfectly, on the late 40's Ford like you got there is possibly the ultimate setup, you got an anti roll bar, and panhard rod stock, it really is a very good driving setup.
You won't regret doing it properly.
please be good to your word and keep it of the road till sorted, don't want it going all wrong and you hitting something/someone. Might even hit me, it's that bad.
Martin.
In England.
scooder is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:20 AM.