Wayne Carini A-400

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Logan & Jordan are correct in their defense of Bill's car, ...but it does make someone wonder what has happened to us as A drivers over the years. Today, it seems like A/C is a must-have in some parts of the country if we are to enjoy our cars. So it begs the question, is it hotter now in our cars than it was 30 years ago on tour, --or some 80 years ago?

Naturally is would seem that if it is indeed hotter (--or more humid) in today's times, then modifying an 'A' for A/C sure seems like the right way to go. On the other hand, in the dead of summer you will see the Model-T clubs touring in their cars with temps in triple-digits and the heat index over 130, ...and these folks (many of them elderly) never have an A/C in their car. Adding to that, many of the earlier AACA & HCCA-eligible cars tour during the hot summer months without having any type of air conditioning too. Definitely not arguing Logan or Jordan's point because I would not want to drive in S. Texas summer weather in a Model-A without an Air Conditioner, ...but then again, anymore I guess I don't enjoy driving a Model-A all that much either.


Logan, your comment about Bill owning more A400s than anyone did make me nod in agreement with you, as he and Curtis Foster owned several together over the years, ...but I also have two other A400 owners that come to mind that very likely could give Bill Coleman a run for his money in that regard. One of those other guys frequents here on occasion and is also named Bill.

[barnstuf]

If Wayne Carini's father was Bob Carini I was a friend of Bob for many years. As I recall Bob restored an A-400 for a lady named Esther Larsen who had about 6 beautiful Model A's in her Model A museum named Captain Paul Model A Museum in northern CT. I believe Bob acquired the car from Mrs Larsen as the life span of the museum was only a few years. I recall that Bob took the car to the 2nd National Model A Ford Meet, Dearborn 1957, but it probably was owned by Mrs Larsen then. Bob and I were friends for many years and I last saw him perhaps 10 years ago when he was on a camping vacation on the lower Cape Cod area and looked me for old times sake.

[Jeff/Illinois]

Thinking about Brent's post,,,,, " .....anymore I really don't enjoy driving a Model A all that much either....."

That got me to thinking, yeah he is probably on to something here. I ask myself these days 'Do I want to take the Model A out and risk having some nitwit kill me, or should I pull the Mach 1 out and run with modern traffic and THEN some?'

A lot easier for me as I am getting older (all of 62 now) than crawling in and out of a Model A Ford, to get the newer iron out and run it. I haven't driven the Model A more than 5 miles this year, in all fairness partly due to some health issues that will take time to resolve. But sliding in and out of an A is almost impossible for me at this point.

I still LIKE the Model A's they are a neat little car but look at them now more as a piece of art perhaps than a driving machine.

This is no doubt common today, is why we are seeing so many modifications on A's, to try to make them more 'driveable.'

The hobby she's a changin' ain't what she used to be in 1971 when I first started. The WWII guys back then had all the A's around here and they had different thoughts about the cars than what I see today.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by Logan

Lol y'all better not ever come to a Texas or Mafca meet if that car is a "frog". Coleman drove that car when he was able to before he got in bad health. Coleman has probably owned more A400's than anybody in the world. He always had 1 or 2 around and that's the one he kept for touring. And the reason he's kept it so long is because it's set up to where he could drive it even in bad health, and it still appeared stock from the outside.

All those modifications... Could be taken off if desired. But the person that buys it will more than likely drive it an enjoy it. I've seen deluxe phaetons with a/c, overdrives, and overhead valves, as well as many A400's set up the same way. They didn't discrace the car, they made it more drivable for touring. Go to a MAFCA meet and you'll see 3 more just like it in the parking lot sitting next to eachother that drove cross country to get there.

'y'all' missed the point altogether from my above comments !
6000 +/- TOTAL of these cars were made...in the whole world !!

Maybe you three will agree, at the least, that these are RARE models among Model As ? That is my only point here.

I'm not a purist/restorer, and will never be able to afford this rare Model A. However, that doesn't mean that I don't appreciate that which is rare and special in the hobby, for its beauty.

If you have deep pockets to where rarity doesn't impress, then do what YOU want with it, as it's your car ! To ME, this would be like taking a huge beautiful diamond and putting a hammer to it.....to make it like you want it.

I see that one of you have a nice Victoria (with a/c) for sale and I love victorias, but couldn't afford even that nice A. I built my '30 roadster from pieces/parts...acquired over years. It started as to be 'restored'....and as you say, 'can be returned' to bone stock with a lot less $ than that A400.

Your preaching to the choir, to say that 'there is nothing wrong' with adding durable modern parts/amenities to Model As. But, let's remember this thread, when preaching goes on, in the future, about how it is wrong to do so (that is..alter rare As)....because THIS is not the site/place for such .

My ride is what you do on a limited budget, if you want a fun to drive durable Model A. However, even I would know when I was holding a rare gem in my hand, not to be molested like this A400 was.
Wayne was thinking same same as I was/am. You could see in his manerisms/face. IMO, he knew that his dad would be rolling over, just to see what had been done to his award winning jewel.
No hypocrite here, eh ...

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Jeff, my comment was probably more tongue in cheek than anything however, for me personally there is not the thrill to just drive one like there is for others. Personally, I prefer to drive or tour in brass-era cars as they are more of a vehicle that you ride on, --instead of inside. Even then, I don't get my cars out to just 'joy ride' but would rather be touring with a group of friends. My preference is to drive for around 45 minutes and then stop to fellowship for 15 minutes while we are either viewing something or eating ice cream!

I also need to be quick to point out that my occupation generally affords/finds me test driving a Model-A at some point about every week. Therefore my circumstances are probably different than most, but on the same hand I must confess that it has been years since I have been on an 'A' tour with our local Model-A club. In a nutshell, their history of touring has been rather chaotic where the modified cars ran off from the restored (stock) cars with the route or destination not always known by all participants, ...and this created some very hard feelings within the club. (I have heard this very complaint from other clubs around the country too) As a result, my local club has focused more on picnics and just club meetings. Nothing wrong with that I suppose but just not my cup of tea.

Originally Posted by hardtimes

'y'all' missed the point altogether from my above comments !
6000 +/- TOTAL of these cars were made...in the whole world !!

You are very correct that it is a rare car, and worth preserving. I have seen this particular car in person and spent about 30 minutes looking it over on the top and the bottom. Yes I totally agree with all three of you regarding the car's condition. The car has had a repaint in the past, ...and the paint now is not all that strong IMPO. The original interior was worn enough that it replaced with a L/B interior. At the time I viewed the car, Bill was closing down his shop and he thought the material that came out of the car was still there. It has since been determined that it may be lost. The overdrive set-up really only harmed a floorboard. The bottom line is the car is due a complete restoration to be considered a top-notch car. Where this car really shines is there is not any rust to speak of on the undercarriage. For someone wanting to perform a correct restoration, all of the fasteners underneath should easily come loose with just a set of wrenches. This means they can be reused, ...which is important for someone wanting to do an authentic restoration. The same with mirrors, seat springs, brackets, ash trays, etc., ....they are all in very nice shape and should be very easy to restore by a home restorer. It is also very possible the wood is intact in this car and can be reused however if not, it is perfect for a home restorer to easily duplicate. The same goes for the sheetmetal, and all of the mechanical parts such as spindle bolts, brake rods, shackles, and the like that cost so much in time & $$ to find suitable pieces that are restorable. That is why some of us who have seen this vehicle in person feel that while it has been modified, it really has not been 'damaged'.

[hardtimes]

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Not being in the same stratosphere ($) as those who can have such, my curiosity is, what would THIS (Carini) car realistically fetch...as is ?

If you know, what is the 'average' price tag for a restored A400 as was shown in picture of (Carini) car back when it was award winning ?

Lastly, approximately how much to redo this A4oo to stock/restored ?

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Not being in the same stratosphere ($) as those who can have such, my curiosity is, what would THIS (Carini) car realistically fetch...as is ?

If you know, what is the 'average' price tag for a restored A400 as was shown in picture of (Carini) car back when it was award winning ?

Lastly, approximately how much to redo this A400 to stock/restored ?

As-Is now, probably in the $25k-30k range. A professionally restored A400 to award-winning status today will fetch or exceed $100k.

Personally I don't feel Carini's car was ever an "award-winning" vehicle but maybe during that era it was. In the 60's, probably $3,500.00+/-. I'm kinda basing that off of my Dad purchasing a restored Deluxe Roadster in 1963 for $2,500.

Just remember that back then (-much like today) not everyone viewed a A400 as a car they wanted to own. Yes, they were considered rare, but the popularity is kinda hit or miss on those cars. For my personal taste, I think they look nice with the top up, however they look odd with the top down. Many share my sentiments, ...and if the top is never going to be let down, a Victoria Coupe is seemingly just as desirable.

[Jeff/Illinois]

I didn't mean to be ----mean--- about the car, it just doesn't 'do' anything for me that's all. Cars have personalities just like people. The way they sit. The way they look. The way they are presented. Two cars of the same make and model and even year can look 'different.' One will outshine the others. This car just doesn't grab my attention like others can or do. The engine mods, the overdrive, the a/c, and such just ain't my Cup 'O Joe.

I too think an A-400 w/ the top down 'ain't' all that attractive. They look 'weird'. A Victoria 'looks' neater if you want that style of A. Again, that's just my opinion. Roadsters look better with the top up. They still look good with the top 'down' but better with it up. Same as 60's convertibles.GM, Ford, Mopar makes no difference.

Joop's car was ten times more attractive than the Carini car in my eye. You could tell by Wayne's knee jerk reaction to his father's old car that he felt the same way.

[Joop]

Thanks for the nice comment Jeff.

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[HalcyonDays]

It is interesting to hear a fair value for the car is between $25K and $30K, and the asking price is $48K... There has been a wide range in sale prices over the past year.

[larrys40]

Originally Posted by Joop

Thanks for the nice comment Jeff.

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Joop,
Absolutely stunning car! It does stand out and apart from the rest of the standard high production body styles. Looking forward sometime to getting my own 68C done... Many of the same challenges as the 400A guys have to deal with. Thanks for your help to me and everyone for these special body style cars.

I met Wayne once the day before Amelia Island... definitely a class act and even though he can afford much fancier high dollar cars he has the same fondness and respect for our Fords just the same. He was certainly very friendly and gracious to me.
I've always said that this hobby is so cool you get to go places, meet people, and do things that other folks never do. It is in fact so cool.
As I wrote that I am thinking it's Hershey time soon!

Larry Shepard

[mercman from oz]

Model A Ford A400 - Sweet.

[Joop]

I agree with you.

[mach0415]

I agree. I drive my ‘28 Tudor here in the dry 113°+ Sonoran Desert in AZ regularly. No A/C, but windows down and plenty of water.