What am I missing? 1930 Model A

[tjmckenzie]

1930 Model A and just for the record the car was handed down to me from my Grandpa. I am semi mechanically inclined.
Okay, here is the facts as I know the:

1. Fuel seems to be getting to the intake manifold/carburetor. The reason I know this is it is soaking through the gasket above the carburetor.
2. New Spark plugs are firing.
3. Spark Plugs are dry, no fuel on them.
4. Distributor is firing. New coil, cap and rotor.
5. Points are firing.

When I turn the car over, it seems to me that we are not getting spark. Just keeps turning over with no sound of combustion. I know the info is lacking maybe but any ideas on what it might be? Thanks in advance.

[700rpm]

Replace the gasket that’s leaking, or at least tighten the bolts. It shouldn’t be showing any fuel.
There are multiple ways to check your spark. One is to remove the dist. cap, make sure your points are closed, turn on the key, then hold your primary lead from the coil about 1/4" from a head bolt and open your points. You should get a blue spark from the coil wire to the bolt.

If the engine is properly functioning inside (valves, rings, timing gears)You only need three things to make a Model A run: spark, fuel, and timing.

I suggest you find a local club and attend a meeting. Explain your trouble, and you will be swamped with good advice.
Also put your location above with your name. That will help draw local help.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

[alexiskai]

If you've confirmed that the plugs are firing (e.g., by creating a small gap between the lead and the plug as the engine is turned over), and you know that fuel is flowing, the next thing to confirm is that the timing is correct. With a car that's a complete unknown, make sure you visually verify (via removing plug 1) that the #1 piston is coming to TDC when indicated by the timing pin. Then time as normal.

If the plugs are firing, fuel is flowing, and the timing is correct, you should get at least some kind of combustion.

[Jacksonlll]

Try to start it with the throttle fully opened to flush out the excess fuel. If you get a fire, back off on the gas. Join a club.

[wwirz]

Does it start using "starting fluid? If not, make doubly sure that your point gap is correct. I had a similar problem only to find that my points were not gapped correctly

[Curtis in MA]

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If fuel is flowing (your #1) but not getting to the cylinders (your #3), are the valves opening?

[Big hammer]

Spark plugs sparking but not wet, carburetor gasket wet. If your compression is weak, it may not be sucking fuel into the clylinders. Squirt some fuel into the cylinders, replace the plugs and see or hear what happens.

[talwrench]

Are you pull on the choke when trying to start?

[Bill Cilker]

Have you checked your timing? It could be 180 degrees out.

[aermotor]

Originally Posted by Bill Cilker

Have you checked your timing? It could be 180 degrees out.

How can this be? John

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by aermotor

How can this be? John

The dimple on the timing gear will indicate TDC on both the compression and the exhaust stroke. If you install the distributor shaft a half turn off and then time to spark at the top of the exhaust (thinking it's at the top of compression) it will be 180 degrees off.

180 degrees is pretty obvious. I once had to diagnose a car that turned out to have a timing gear installed one tooth out of sync with the crankshaft. A real pain to get to the timing cover, so just visually checking was the last resort. It ran, but poorly. That was interesting.

JayJay

[J Franklin]

[QUOTE=JayJay;198162) If you install the distributor shaft a half turn off and then time to spark at the top of the exhaust (thinking it's at the top of compression) it will be 180 degrees off.

JayJay[/QUOTE]

You forgot that the model A distributor shaft can only be installed 1 way, never 180 off. The timing pin hits the dimple only on TDC.

[JayJay]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

You forgot that the model A distributor shaft can only be installed 1 way, never 180 off. The timing pin hits the dimple only on TDC.

You are correct of course, thanks. I was thinking of other engines I've worked on that had the camshaft gears at the bottom of the distributor shaft and it's not all that difficult to get the distributor mis-timed to the camshaft.

And in hindsight - my whole premise above is flawed. i wasn't thinking, the dimple is on the timing gear connected to the camshaft, which only rotates once per two rotations of the crankshaft. So as J Franklin points out, there won't be any dimple at TDC of the exhaust stroke. Gotta go back to first principles! Doh!

So ignore anything I've said in this thread. I'd delete it all but too much discussion attached.

JayJay (hanging head in shame)

[sinbad339]

Originally Posted by JayJay

The dimple on the timing gear will indicate TDC on both the compression and the exhaust stroke.
JayJay

Maybe I'm missing something, but because the crankshaft makes two revolutions for one four-stroke-cycle, the dimple will indeed indicate TDC on both compression and exhaust stroke. 180 degrees off isn't quite the correct term (360 degrees off?), but the basic issue is the same; yes?

[J Franklin]

Check compression and if good spray a shot of starting fluid while someone cranks the starter with the key on.

[GRutter]

I'm going out on a limb here... but I'm going to assume the car was running when grandpa had it, and has been sitting for a while. Don't create more problems than you started with by changing a bunch of stuff. If it was running, then assume timing is correct.

If you have spark at the plugs then move on to fuel and compression checks. Valves could be sticking open. Do a quick compression test to insure that intake and exhaust valves are closing. If they are, then move onto fuel.

If it's been sitting, your carburetor might just need a good cleaning out. You shouldn't be seeing fuel leaking around any gaskets so you also have some tightening to do.

Not sure what your experience level is with a Model A, but some good advice to seek out a local Model A club member for help. Open GAV 1/2 turn, retard spark, slightly advance throttle, pull out choke and step on the starter.

[Russ/40]

If the plugs are dry, your not getting fuel.

[tjmckenzie]

UPDATE, UPDATE, UPDATE.....
See attached pictures of wiring. Electrical seems to be right, tested coil and distributor. Thoughts on the wiring?

One thing I noticed but not mentioned before is that the ammeter does not flicker when key is turned but does bounce when turning the car over. Is this a red flag?

Same conditions apply:
Fuel to the intake at top of carb, I even installed a new gasket, still leaks. See attached photo. Car turns over has dry plugs, no start.

Next up is....compression test and timing?

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by tjmckenzie

UPDATE, UPDATE, UPDATE.....
See attached pictures of wiring. Electrical seems to be right, tested coil and distributor. Thoughts on the wiring?

One thing I noticed but not mentioned before is that the ammeter does not flicker when key is turned but does bounce when turning the car over. Is this a red flag?

Same conditions apply:
Fuel to the intake at top of carb, I even installed a new gasket, still leaks. See attached photo. Car turns over has dry plugs, no start.

Next up is....compression test and timing?

If the ammeter is wiggling when cranking - a good thing - means the primary circuit of the ignition is functional. Points, low voltage ignition wiring, ammeter is not open, coil primary, ignition switch are OK.

0 amps with ignition on and motor not running is normal with the points open. The battery has no load unless the points closed, or lights on, horn is on, or stop lamp is activated, etc. You probably are already aware, the Starter is not routed through the ammeter. - 0 amps when points are open is also a good thing, no shorts causing a current draw.

You have spark on the spark plugs, - a good thing. Means that along with the previous above info being good, the ignition secondary is good. Rotor is installed turning since the distributor is driven off the cam shaft which opens closes the points, which causes spark.

So it looks like the ignition is functional.

So seems you have gas getting to the carb since it is leaking. Typically it will leak out the air intake. If when leaking you use a pinky finger around the inside of the air take, it should be dry unless you have over choked while starting. However your plugs are dry, which is confusing.

It could be the carb is completely plugged up. To check for this try when cranking the motor spray some Quick start/Auto starting fluid into the carb air intake. Do nor over do this, this has a tendency to wash the cylinder walls of oil/lube. If it fires/tries to run it is most likely a carb issue.

Or if you have a massive vacuum leak. To check if you have a massive leak put the palm of you hand over the carb intake and crank the motor, you should feel a lot of vacuum sucking on the palm of your hand.

You could try swapping out the carb with a known good one. If you do this swap out the fuel supply to a small separate tank (like a lawnmower gas tank) that has fresh gas. Also drain the carb float bowl in case of water. It is possible the gas is bad if has been sitting for months, and also the A gas tank could be full of rust/debris/water. You do not want to plug up a different carb. If it is the carb you can try cleaning it out and fixing the float valve issue yourself, or have it rebuilt. I recommend Jim Bullock, Texas.

https://jmacarbs.com/

Check back here, or search here on methods/recommendations on flushing the gas tank.

Hope this helps, let us know your progress.

[SteveB31]

Take the plug wires loose from the distributor body and lay them all about 1/2” from the contacts on the distributor body. Key on. Turn over starter. Do you have spark jumping from the body to the plug wires?