Modern Points and Condenser

[marty in Ohio]

Last night I watched Paul Shinn talk about modern points in a model A. He said he didn't like the "moderns" because you can't find a good condenser. Well, I've had modern points in my A for about ten years and the condenser was a problem. That is, until I put in one that I got from NAPA. It's an Echlin No. FA-82. They're a little pricey but they seem to last.
Marty

[DJ S]

Marty, thanks for sharing. I share a similar experience. NAPA Part No. FA-82 has performed well for me.

[Will N]

The term "modern" points is like jumbo shrimp, old news, pretty ugly, and of course we can't forget military intelligence!

[Jim/GA]

Originally Posted by marty in Ohio

Last night I watched Paul Shinn talk about modern points in a model A. He said he didn't like the "moderns" because you can't find a good condenser. Well, I've had modern points in my A for about ten years and the condenser was a problem. That is, until I put in one that I got from NAPA. It's an Echlin No. FA-82. They're a little pricey but they seem to last.
Marty

That has been my experience, too. I use the NAPA Echlin FA-82 condenser with no problems. I also carry a couple of spares in my cars. It is possible to get cheap modern-style condensers, and they are junk.

It is funny, we have gone full circle on these condensers, because it was the poor quality of the reproduction original-style condensers that originally pushed me to the "modern" style points and condenser. The repro condensers were real junk.

Now we do have a better original style condenser, if you make sure to get it (and not the cheap junk ones). So you can stay with the original style stuff, if you want.

But for me, the ease of replacing the modern style POINTS without a lot of effort still makes that option more attractive to me, over the original points. The modern points do not force you to have to retime the engine after the points are installed, like the original style points do. You just install them, set the point gap, and go. This is a big plus.

[ndnchf]

When I rebuilt my distributor, I returned it to stock point set up. Poor quality modern type condensers and points were an ongoing problem. A new cam was installed as part of the rebuild, but first I put it in the lathe and polished it to a mirror finish. A set of original Ford script points was scavenged from my box of distrubutor cores. Using a high quality A&L condenser and these points it has been virtually maintenance free. I made one points adjustment after about 200 miles, it has been stable since then. I doubt I'll need to change the points anytime soon.

[updraught]

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Originally Posted by Will N

The term "modern" points is like jumbo shrimp, old news, pretty ugly, and of course we can't forget military intelligence!

Yeah, your shrimps are just too small.

Our tiger prawns get up to a foot long.
https://www.sydneyfishmarket.com.au/...st/tiger-prawn

[Rob Doe]

I had a 31 coupe as a kid. I drove it a total of about 10,000 miles to school and around town, then on a 3500 mile excursion to Colorado and back. This was 1964 to 1971. It must have had Ford points because I never had to replace the points. I adjusted them sometimes because it was fun.

Two and a half years ago, we bought another coupe. I did not want to go the the so called modern upper plate. But after 4600 miles of poor service, I gave in and purchased an upper plate with points and condenser from Nu Rex. After 13,000 miles I have adjusted the points one time. Mostly for fun. I will eventually polish the dist. cam, but wanted to know the life of the points without polish first. I use Lubricam on cam.

[katy]

If the distributor cam is not perfectly smooth it will wear down the rubbing block on the points. Also there should be a small amount of lubricant on the cam/rubbing block.

[P.S.]

Originally Posted by marty in Ohio

Last night I watched Paul Shinn talk about modern points in a model A. He said he didn't like the "moderns" because you can't find a good condenser. Well, I've had modern points in my A for about ten years and the condenser was a problem. That is, until I put in one that I got from NAPA. It's an Echlin No. FA-82. They're a little pricey but they seem to last.
Marty

That Paul Shinn guy....

I prefer the adjustability of the original points over the V8 points, but that's about it. Like Katy says, if the cam is polished perfectly smooth, then points rubbing block wear isn't a problem, and that goes for both. The cheap knockoffs are a different story.

As for condensers, I have had a bunch of the "modern" type be bad right out of the package, mostly showing leakage. Not exactly sure why. Inferior capacitors being used in them, I presume. Sure, they would probably work for a little while, but they wouldn't last. I much prefer the original style ones not only because I almost never come across a bad one, but because it also helps support the tab on the lower plate where the ignition cable screws in to the distributor, preventing it from shorting out.

Just my opinion. That's all.

[Gene F]

Ok, the FA-82 comes back to a alternator condenser on the napaonline web site...

What do we know about the FA-8200 ?

[ModelA29]

Originally Posted by updraught

Yeah, your shrimps are just too small.

Our tiger prawns get up to a foot long.
https://www.sydneyfishmarket.com.au/...st/tiger-prawn

But can you toss another prawn on the bar b?


A friend has a Mallory distributor in his car and has constant problems with the condenser. He's been using the Mallory brand maybe the NAPA one will work for him.
I've been replacing points with Pertronix ignitions in my cars since they started making them in the 70s. My car has the FS conversion kit in it. No problems with points, condensers or cam roughness.

[Synchro909]

I use the "modern" points without a problem even though I have several sets of original style points in a tin somewhere. I have no idea whether they are good reproductions or rubbish. It seems to me that sticking with "original" points is no guarantee of quality as this link points out
https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...6727&cat=41666
For me, it's the V8 points and a decent condensor.

[katy]

Originally Posted by Gene F

Ok, the FA-82 comes back to a alternator condenser on the napaonline web site...

What do we know about the FA-8200 ?

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/ECHFA8200

[Tom Endy]

The attached document appeared in a club newsletter. One column addresses the subject of modern points, the other is about Hubly Model A's that has nothing to do with modern points.

http://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-conte...ern-Points.pdf

Tom Endy

[The Master Cylinder]

Originally Posted by Tom Endy

The attached document appeared in a club newsletter. One column addresses the subject of modern points, the other is about Hubly Model A's that has nothing to do with modern points.

http://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-conte...ern-Points.pdf

Tom Endy

Good point, Tom. But the dummy condenser that the vendors sell does not accomplish this. You would need to install a wooden dowel to "fill up" the dummy condenser.

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/s...ummy+condenser

[rotorwrench]

I'm not sure if a person can still download the NAPA Echlin Ignition and electrical parts guide or not. I last downloaded one in 2014 that is dated for 2009. The FA82 is one of many used on Ford products. The way it is attached is one of the differentiating factors. Otherwise they are all similar in capacity as a basic capacitor. It's usage listing is for alternator or distributor.

The FA8200 is the same as an FA82 in appearance and mounting but it's usage is listed as "High Performance". What makes it high performance is anyone's guess. Perhaps it is more fully tested. The catalog doesn't list the capacity of the Echlin caps but at least it lists what manufacturers model years used each one of them.

The FA5 condenser is still listed in that catalog for 1928 to 1936 and appears to fit the model A type distributor.

The FA prefix on these parts is likely meant mostly for Ford products but I see some Dodge and International trucks that used some of these parts as well.

[David in San Antonio]

Warning: Long tangent only partly related to capacitors/condensers:
My physics professor made a huge capacitor in class using a roll of aluminum foil and a roll of waxed paper. Spread out it was the width of the classroom. Rolled up it looked like a section of baseball bat, about 18” long. He proceeded to energize it with a DC power supply until the voltage(?) stabilized. Then grinning he shorted the contacts to each other and cackled with delight as the huge CRACK noise made us all jump. It was LOUD. He could get away with stunts like this because he was the chairman of the physics department. He did his undergraduate work at MIT around WWI. Lots of stories about early radio, locally-generated house current and how his landlady didn’t trust electricity because she thought it was from the devil. He built his own AM radio receiver with headphones, and his old Yankee grandfather listened to it for a moment or two. He told his grandfather “That’s a man talking in Pennsylvania.” His grandfather said it wasn’t real and was some kind of trick, and flatly refused to believe it. Doing the math, I’m guessing his grandfather was born around the end of the Civil War.

[Tom Endy]

On the subject of Model A condensers. The good quality condensers sold by a number of suppliers are made by A&L.

https://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-cont...r-rev-2023.pdf

Tom Endy

[ModelA29]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

I'm not sure if a person can still download the NAPA Echlin Ignition and electrical parts guide or not.

https://www.smpbuyersguide.com/echli...s-Guide/1655/#

[P.S.]

Originally Posted by Tom Endy

The attached document appeared in a club newsletter. One column addresses the subject of modern points, the other is about Hubly Model A's that has nothing to do with modern points.

http://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-conte...ern-Points.pdf

Tom Endy

Tom,

Everything you write is always so well written and researched! Thank you for everything you contribute to the hobby.

In case anyone who wants to use "modern" points is wondering, YES, you can use the V8 style points with a stock type Model A condenser. Example- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxlDvUFlpus

That also has an excellent explanation at around the 5-minute mark of what Tom's article talks about.