The Ford Barn

spinelll · 08-22-2023, 03:26 AM

What the heck is causing this foam?
I did the "Lestoil shuffle" a few years ago, but I don't think it's that.

Thanks
Leo

29spcoupe · 08-22-2023, 05:25 AM

could be caused by oil in the coolant.

nkaminar · 08-22-2023, 07:28 AM

Drain the radiator and block and flush with water. Replace with 50/50 antifreeze and water that is meant for older cars, not the new stuff meant for newer cars and trucks.

WHN · 08-22-2023, 07:40 AM

Oil in water. What does your engine oil look like? How about your spark plugs?

If you have any water in your engines oil, your head gasket needs to be replaced.

Oil in coolant usually has the same cause.

Good luck.

katy · 08-22-2023, 07:54 AM

"Lestoil shuffle"?

Bob Bidonde · 08-22-2023, 08:50 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

More than likely, the water pump is cavitating causing the foam.

Planojc · 08-22-2023, 11:24 AM

As stated above, I would drain the radiator and add the 50/50 mix.

DJ S · 08-22-2023, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

More than likely, the water pump is cavitating causing the foam.

Yup. I chased my tail forever trying to determine the cause of foaming anti-freenze.

New leak-less style pump and a thermostat fixed the issue.

nkaminar · 08-22-2023, 12:42 PM

Cavitation is where something moves through water fast enough to form a pocket of vapor. The vapor collapses as soon as the object passes or the water passes. I doubt that the water pump blades would move fast enough to cause cavitation. Most likely the water pump is mixing air into the coolant and there is something in the coolant that acts like a soap solution to support the air bubbles. It could be oil but it could be anything such as left over cleaning solution or bad coolant.

Chuck Sea/Tac · 08-22-2023, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkaminar

Cavitation is where something moves through water fast enough to form a pocket of vapor. The vapor collapses as soon as the object passes or the water passes. I doubt that the water pump blades would move fast enough to cause cavitation. Most likely the water pump is mixing air into the coolant and there is something in the coolant that acts like a soap solution to support the air bubbles. It could be oil but it could be anything such as left over cleaning solution or bad coolant.

You can suck air in through worn seals on the water pump.

mass A man · 08-23-2023, 10:05 AM

Years ago I had a foaming problem, rebuilt engine, clean inside, leakless pump, could drive forever in 90 degree heat, no overheating but foaming. Someone on THIS site mentioned to use Sierra antifreeze, so I tried it (50/50 mix) and it worked. No more foaming. Sierra is a few bucks more than some other brands but I was at a loss and ready to try anything. I'm certainly no chemist so I can't explain it.

Big hammer · 08-23-2023, 10:20 AM

Drain the coolant and save if antifreeze, flush with water, over fill with water, start engine and watch for bubbles. If you see bubbles than probably a head gasket, do a leak down test. If no bubbles it’s maybe the antifreeze, I wonder if a Gano filter in the upper hose would break up the bubbles?

TMarsh · 08-23-2023, 10:36 AM

Same problem changed anti freeze, cured problem

Bruce of MN · 08-23-2023, 01:40 PM

My problem with foam seemed to be a blown head gasket.

spinelll · 08-24-2023, 06:22 PM

Thanks for all of the suggestions. Trying to eliminate one-by-one.

As per some Fordbarn advice, the pic shows the four plugs and the anti-freeze I use.
Anything odd about the plugs?
I think this is the recommended anti-freeze for old cars.

On the head gasket, will a compression test reveal an issue?
Would I see white smoke out of the tail pipe?

Also, I had the car out a few days ago and had plenty of power.

Thanks
Leo

Ordsgt · 08-24-2023, 07:53 PM

Driving at 45-50 mph noticed some coolant leaking past radiator cap. I knew I needed a new cap and ordered one. I checked the radiator level and it was fine. Started the engine and the coolant flowed with no issues. Manually increased the rpm to about 1500 or so and within seconds the flow of bubbles started and kept increasing until it became foam.
Ran compression test on warm engine with throttle wide open and got the following
1-70
2-60
3-64
4-69
By the way stock engine. Will be pulling head tomorrow as it appears to me to be a blown head gasket.

If it is a head gasket will probably replace the head with a 5.5 that I have. I already had replaced all the studs and nuts with new and harder studs about 2 years ago when I last blew a gasket. Should the head bolt torque still be at 55ftlbs with the Snyder 5.5?
Thanks, you all are great

nkaminar · 08-25-2023, 05:36 AM

Thoroughly clean the head and block. Final clean with acetone. Fill any nicks or divots with JB Weld and sand flat with some wet and dry sandpaper wrapped around a flat file. Use the Best brand graphite head gasket and the copper spray gasket cement. Do not use the gasket on the goose neck, just some gasket sealer.

Toque to 55 foot-pounds in 10 foot-pound increments. Warm engine then let it cool completely and re-torque. Then re-torque on cool engine after 50 to 100 miles. Repeat after 500 miles and then every year. Use some anti seize on the studs and nuts. Make sure the threaded holes in the block are clean to the bottom.

You may already know all this but newbe's read the forum so that this may be helpful for them. Even though this information has been published before, it may be hard to search for.

Forgot to mention to check the fit of the head to the block. Put some plastigauge at various places and bolt the head on without a gasket. There should be no more than 0.002 gap anywhere.

WHN · 08-25-2023, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spinelll

Thanks for all of the suggestions. Trying to eliminate one-by-one.

As per some Fordbarn advice, the pic shows the four plugs and the anti-freeze I use.
Anything odd about the plugs?
I think this is the recommended anti-freeze for old cars.

On the head gasket, will a compression test reveal an issue?
Would I see white smoke out of the tail pipe?

Also, I had the car out a few days ago and had plenty of power.

Thanks
Leo

Plugs look good to me. Compression test might or might not show if you have a problem. You don’t need white smoke to have a problem.

I can’t tell you the number of head gaskets I have replaced in the last 60 years.

I would drain all the coolant. Really Flush the radiator and add just water. Drive the car and see what happens. I don’t think the water pump has anything to do with foaming. As in the Model T, a good percentage of the cooling in a Model A is natural movement, hot up and out, cold down and in. 30 plus gallons per minute if I remember correctly.

Good luck.

Charlie Stephens · 08-25-2023, 01:35 PM

Years ago I found that one particular brand of anti-freeze foamed and another one didn't. You might want to try a different brand.

Charlie Stephens

spinelll · 08-26-2023, 10:51 AM

To follow up, I checked the compression. Getting 55-60 in each cylinder.

08-22-2023, 05:25 AM	#2
29spcoupe Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Rhinebeck, NY Posts: 762	Re: Faom in Anti-freeze could be caused by oil in the coolant.

08-22-2023, 07:28 AM	#3
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,897	Re: Foam in Anti-freeze Drain the radiator and block and flush with water. Replace with 50/50 antifreeze and water that is meant for older cars, not the new stuff meant for newer cars and trucks. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

08-22-2023, 07:40 AM	#4
WHN Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Connecticut Shoreline Posts: 1,824	Re: Foam in Anti-freeze Oil in water. What does your engine oil look like? How about your spark plugs? If you have any water in your engines oil, your head gasket needs to be replaced. Oil in coolant usually has the same cause. Good luck. Last edited by WHN; 08-23-2023 at 01:51 PM.

08-22-2023, 07:54 AM	#5
katy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 5,046	Re: Foam in Anti-freeze "Lestoil shuffle"? __________________ If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!. Got my education out behind the barn!

08-22-2023, 08:50 AM	#6
Bob Bidonde Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 3,470	Re: Foam in Anti-freeze Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) More than likely, the water pump is cavitating causing the foam. __________________ Bob Bidonde

08-22-2023, 11:24 AM	#7
Planojc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Plano, Texas Posts: 847	Re: Foam in Anti-freeze As stated above, I would drain the radiator and add the 50/50 mix.

08-22-2023, 12:42 PM	#9
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,897	Re: Foam in Anti-freeze Cavitation is where something moves through water fast enough to form a pocket of vapor. The vapor collapses as soon as the object passes or the water passes. I doubt that the water pump blades would move fast enough to cause cavitation. Most likely the water pump is mixing air into the coolant and there is something in the coolant that acts like a soap solution to support the air bubbles. It could be oil but it could be anything such as left over cleaning solution or bad coolant. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

08-23-2023, 10:05 AM	#11
mass A man Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Danvers, Ma. Posts: 712	Re: Foam in Anti-freeze Years ago I had a foaming problem, rebuilt engine, clean inside, leakless pump, could drive forever in 90 degree heat, no overheating but foaming. Someone on THIS site mentioned to use Sierra antifreeze, so I tried it (50/50 mix) and it worked. No more foaming. Sierra is a few bucks more than some other brands but I was at a loss and ready to try anything. I'm certainly no chemist so I can't explain it.

08-23-2023, 10:20 AM	#12
Big hammer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Land of Lincoln Posts: 3,131	Re: Foam in Anti-freeze Drain the coolant and save if antifreeze, flush with water, over fill with water, start engine and watch for bubbles. If you see bubbles than probably a head gasket, do a leak down test. If no bubbles it’s maybe the antifreeze, I wonder if a Gano filter in the upper hose would break up the bubbles? __________________ Don't force it with a little hammer tap, tap, tap get a bigger hammer tap done

08-23-2023, 10:36 AM	#13
TMarsh Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2019 Posts: 131	Re: Foam in Anti-freeze Same problem changed anti freeze, cured problem

08-23-2023, 01:40 PM	#14
Bruce of MN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: VA Posts: 1,410	Re: Foam in Anti-freeze My problem with foam seemed to be a blown head gasket.

08-24-2023, 07:53 PM	#16
Ordsgt Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Yorktown Virginia Posts: 182	Re: Foam in Anti-freeze Driving at 45-50 mph noticed some coolant leaking past radiator cap. I knew I needed a new cap and ordered one. I checked the radiator level and it was fine. Started the engine and the coolant flowed with no issues. Manually increased the rpm to about 1500 or so and within seconds the flow of bubbles started and kept increasing until it became foam. Ran compression test on warm engine with throttle wide open and got the following 1-70 2-60 3-64 4-69 By the way stock engine. Will be pulling head tomorrow as it appears to me to be a blown head gasket. If it is a head gasket will probably replace the head with a 5.5 that I have. I already had replaced all the studs and nuts with new and harder studs about 2 years ago when I last blew a gasket. Should the head bolt torque still be at 55ftlbs with the Snyder 5.5? Thanks, you all are great Last edited by Ordsgt; 08-24-2023 at 09:07 PM.

08-25-2023, 05:36 AM	#17
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,897	Re: Foam in Anti-freeze Thoroughly clean the head and block. Final clean with acetone. Fill any nicks or divots with JB Weld and sand flat with some wet and dry sandpaper wrapped around a flat file. Use the Best brand graphite head gasket and the copper spray gasket cement. Do not use the gasket on the goose neck, just some gasket sealer. Toque to 55 foot-pounds in 10 foot-pound increments. Warm engine then let it cool completely and re-torque. Then re-torque on cool engine after 50 to 100 miles. Repeat after 500 miles and then every year. Use some anti seize on the studs and nuts. Make sure the threaded holes in the block are clean to the bottom. You may already know all this but newbe's read the forum so that this may be helpful for them. Even though this information has been published before, it may be hard to search for. Forgot to mention to check the fit of the head to the block. Put some plastigauge at various places and bolt the head on without a gasket. There should be no more than 0.002 gap anywhere. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past. Last edited by nkaminar; 08-25-2023 at 03:39 PM.

08-25-2023, 01:35 PM	#19
Charlie Stephens Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 7,033	Re: Foam in Anti-freeze Years ago I found that one particular brand of anti-freeze foamed and another one didn't. You might want to try a different brand. Charlie Stephens

08-26-2023, 10:51 AM	#20
spinelll Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 337	Re: Foam in Anti-freeze To follow up, I checked the compression. Getting 55-60 in each cylinder.