What 2bbl carb is this?

[KULTULZ]

Also, I noticed at least one of the openings in the choke housing (maybe both) are drawing vacuum when the car is running. Should those be closed off? There are two of them and they should be visible in the photo.

That is the vacuum signal drawing heated air from the choke stove. The RS is from the brass fitting inlet we were discussing. The LS is the source of the manifold vacuum signal. The drawn heated air operates the thermostat spring.

If a thermostatic choke, both should be open. If converting to an electric choke kit, the inlet line with the brass fitting should be either blocked of (plumbing fitting brass block-off cap) or as mentioned the HOLLEY CAP that will allow outside air to cool the electric thermostat (photos provided in above post).

Choke design varied over the years, and yours is unique. The correct year WSM (1961 MERC) will give you all the info you need.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by JimNNN

The one thing I'm trying to figure out is if part of the end of the shaft in the choke housing can be removed. It didn't look like it to me when I took the photos, but if that's the case, then there may be enough room to install the new cap with the spring. I'm including a closer picture. You can see a spring thing on the end of that shaft, and I have no idea what that's for. That's all different than on my T-Bird.

Yes, the shaft/lever assy can be removed but the choke housing assy must be removed from the carb body (PARTS ILL in an above post).



It may be the photo or my old eyes but the lever(s) (9A757 & 9A753) appear to be bent ...

Hold on to that filler cap as it is a survivor ...

[JimNNN]

Thanks for helping me unravel this mystery, KULTULZ. The vacuum inside the housing now makes sense...it was there to pull heat up into the thermal automatic choke spring. Yes, I believe one of those levers is bent. I bent it back as it should be since the pic...I THINK.

The diagram is very helpful, but it seems to tell me that the shaft is one piece, so I probably can't recess the outward end of the shaft further into the housing more, which is what I was hoping to be able to do. That would be necessary for the cap/spring from the new electric kit to fit onto the housing. If Mike's can't come up with a different choke kit, I see one decent option in just coming up with a spacer that would be the diameter of the housing and cap. It would have to be about 1/4" thick. I could make something out of an existing cap, maybe...like the cap that came with my aftermarket manual choke kit, It seems a little mickey mouse, but I could use it with the kit they sent me, I think, and it would keep me from modding original parts.

One other question: with the electric choke kit on my T-Bird (also from Mike's) I've noticed that the ground connection at the choke cap gets very warm as the car warms up...to hot to touch, in fact. Is that normal? I'm not sure how the elec. choke is supposed to work. I know the sensor connected to the engine sends the signal to the element as the engine heats up. Am I correct in assuming the point of the elec choke is to heat up the element in the cap so it can expand a thermal spring (similar to the original) and actuate the choke plate/butterfly? That would make sense.

Anyway, after this, I'll need to address the fast idle cam stuff on the Merc. I'll be out of town for a while, but hopefully I can talk to Mikes next week. Thanks again!

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by JimNNN

The diagram is very helpful, but it seems to tell me that the shaft is one piece, so I probably can't recess the outward end of the shaft further into the housing more, which is what I was hoping to be able to do. That would be necessary for the cap/spring from the new electric kit to fit onto the housing. If Mike's can't come up with a different choke kit, I see one decent option in just coming up with a spacer that would be the diameter of the housing and cap. It would have to be about 1/4" thick. I could make something out of an existing cap, maybe...like the cap that came with my aftermarket manual choke kit, It seems a little mickey mouse, but I could use it with the kit they sent me, I think, and it would keep me from modding original parts.

It may be the bent lever(s) (or linkages) might be causing the problem.

Here is a kit from another vendor - https://championcarburetor.com/5864-...im3na26a115vk0

Does the choke cap appear similar to the one shown (ILL below)?

One other question: with the electric choke kit on my T-Bird (also from Mike's) I've noticed that the ground connection at the choke cap gets very warm as the car warms up...to hot to touch, in fact. Is that normal? I'm not sure how the elec. choke is supposed to work. I know the sensor connected to the engine sends the signal to the element as the engine heats up. Am I correct in assuming the point of the elec choke is to heat up the element in the cap so it can expand a thermal spring (similar to the original) and actuate the choke plate/butterfly? That would make sense.

What year BIRD and does that kit have a GRD strap in the choke housing or did it require a separate GRD wire?

[Crankster]

One thing to look at is what your Shop manual lists in the Specifications, it will tell you exactly what carburetor that engine was supplied with, one problem after lo these many trips around the sun, is while these carburetors basically all look identical, they were configured very differently internally depending on the application, transmission, gearing, etc. Not just the venturi size, but the specific booster cluster, power valve, jetting, etc.

They are considered to be an excellent design, and are favored by many off road enthusiasts for use on Jeeps and such, as unlike many popular carbs they continue to function at extreme angles or camber. Not quite fuel injection, but the closest thing available in a carburetor. Fun to tune! Get everything you can find on tuning, original scanned Ford documents. There are all sorts of different, seemingly minor adjustments and tweaks and settings that are specific. None of it seems to be confined to a single publication, however.

[JimNNN]

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Originally Posted by KULTULZ

What year BIRD and does that kit have a GRD strap in the choke housing or did it require a separate GRD wire?

It's a 1965, but the 390 is a 2 bbl engine out of (as far as I can tell) a '67 Mercury. I'm guessing a full size car like maybe a Marquis or something. The cap is different than your pic. It has both power and ground wire connections, The ground goes to the temp sensor (from the kit) mounted on the engine. The power goes to a spare fuse location in the fuse box.


BTW, I found reproduction oil filler caps that look almost exactly like my original '61 at Macs/Ecklers. They just don't have the Ford logo, and they're not the same color. I'll pick one up. Thanks.

[JimNNN]

Originally Posted by Crankster

One thing to look at is what your Shop manual lists in the Specifications, it will tell you exactly what carburetor that engine was supplied with, one problem after lo these many trips around the sun, is while these carburetors basically all look identical, they were configured very differently internally depending on the application, transmission, gearing, etc. Not just the venturi size, but the specific booster cluster, power valve, jetting, etc.

They are considered to be an excellent design, and are favored by many off road enthusiasts for use on Jeeps and such, as unlike many popular carbs they continue to function at extreme angles or camber. Not quite fuel injection, but the closest thing available in a carburetor. Fun to tune! Get everything you can find on tuning, original scanned Ford documents. There are all sorts of different, seemingly minor adjustments and tweaks and settings that are specific. None of it seems to be confined to a single publication, however.

Thanks a bunch for the info, Crankster. I've heard basically only good things about the 2100 over the years. I'm sometimes amazed at how smooth my '61 runs. My manual is up in storage, but I'll look into that when I get back in town.

[Crankster]

How do the spark plugs look? I was able to get almost perfect burning plugs after a thorough tune-up and installing the factory carb and adjusting to the book specs. They are super easy to work on, remove & reinstall. They do seem prone to "boil off" or evaporation when sitting for more than a few days. Check for flange warp, subtle air leaks can result. Overall though I've read the 2100 and the 4100 are considered by some as one of the best carburetor designs. I don't know for sure, my example has a big "H" embossed on the bottom of the casting, the design was by Holley initially.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by JimNNN

It's a 1965, but the 390 is a 2 bbl engine out of (as far as I can tell) a '67 Mercury. I'm guessing a full size car like maybe a Marquis or something. The cap is different than your pic. It has both power and ground wire connections, The ground goes to the temp sensor (from the kit) mounted on the engine. The power goes to a spare fuse location in the fuse box.

... hmmpf ...

OK, now I know what you have ...

The GRD wire goes to a sensor before being grounded on the choke housing and/or intake manifold? The KIT included and instructed you to put it (if the same) after the choke thermostat? Need a photo ...

As for the GRD wire becoming hot, it may be the way it is wired causing partial GRD or the choke thermostat overheating due to lack of proper ventilation and the wire acting as a heat sink..

Being off a 65/ engine, the choke mechanism will be different in design as opposed to the 61.

[craig]

I think very highly of the 2100/4100 series carbs, from what I have read, Holley had nothing to do with the original design. FoMoCo patented the 2100 in 1957

[Crankster]

Right, but the rumor is it was designed by Holley?

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by JimNNN

Wanting to find out if this carb is original to my '61 Mercury Monterey (352 c.i.) What brand/model is it? Don't see any markings on it. I always figured it was original to the car ...

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

it is a FORD 2100 2V (BBL Fr.).

The assembly id tag is missing so look for any id nos on the left front mounting ear (foot) or possibly right above it on the fuel bowl.

SEE ATTACHMENTS -

[craig]

Anything is possible as to who actually designed the 2100, but it took Holley until the early 80's to actually produce an annular discharge carb that loosely resembles the design of a 4100

[KULTULZ]

Did you ever get the choke straightened out?

[scicala]

Originally Posted by craig

I think very highly of the 2100/4100 series carbs, from what I have read, Holley had nothing to do with the original design. FoMoCo patented the 2100 in 1957

The Autolite 2100/4100 came out the same year as the Holley 2300/4150 (1957). Two completely different designs, although they did share a similar power valve. My personal opinion is that Holley didn't design the Autolite carb.

Sal

[KULTULZ]

My personal opinion is that Holley didn't design the Autolite carb.

Even though they both used the same jets, accelerator diaphragm and similar choke assemblies?

Can you imagine unit cost if all car lines were fitted with HOLLEY?

[scicala]

Holley and Autolite used different style main jets. and the accelerator diaphragms were square on Autolite and rectangular on Holley. Choke assemblies were similar in that they both took three screws to attacth them and worked the same way, but not interchangable.

Sal

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by scicala

Holley and Autolite used different style main jets. and the accelerator diaphragms were square on Autolite and rectangular on Holley. Choke assemblies were similar in that they both took three screws to attacth them and worked the same way, but not interchangable.

Sal

The first FORD 2100/4100 (1958-1963) (1957 was a unique design) took the same main jets, accelerator pump diaph and power valve style as the HOLLEY.

FORD bought the rights from HOLLEY in 1963 and made modification(s) to the design. They changed the main jets and all were marked by size as HOLLEY but with an F before the sizing.

FORD sourced HOLLEY design (fuel and ignition) mainly over the years until the 4300 SERIES was introduced for emissions. It was designed by ROCHESTER.

[JimNNN]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Did you ever get the choke straightened out?

I'm sorry I didn't follow up, KULTULZ. I got involved on other projects.

I talked to Mike's and an online friend who's restoring a '61 Mercury with the same carb as mine. Mike's said my carb needed the "1110 A" choke kit, which would accommodate the longer shaft in my choke housing (see the pics that show the spring assembly at the end of that shaft.) So I ordered that kit.

Unfortunately, even though the choke cap in the kit they sent was recessed some to make room for a longer shaft, it wasn't recessed enough. Huh? I'd say it was still about 3/32" too shallow. I noticed they threw a bunch of extra choke cap gaskets in this kit where most of their other kits only come with one. Maybe they figured the extra gaskets would provide enough extra clearance to make the cap fit on the housing or something. I'm not sure. Problem was, even with the extra gaskets there wasn't enough clearance. AND the gaskets were slightly oversized in diameter so they didn't exactly fit on my choke housing anyway.

Worse still, the choke lever in my carb's choke housing has no slot in it (unlike most I've seen, which have a slot.) I.e., it needs a choke element/spring that encircles the lever to move it rather than fits in the slot. The one in the kit they sent was for slotted levers. So that was three strikes against that kit, so I said forget it.

I went back to my Manual choke. I don't feel bad at all doing that, however, because I finally messed with the fast idle cam and linkage and got it working like it should. The car now starts very well in cold weather. So I'm not disappointed, because the end result is what I wanted...just not how I thought I would achieve it.

My friend has the original choke set up in his car: hot air automatic with the tube from the exhaust manifold. I won't do that on my car. I replaced the passenger side exh. manifold not long ago and the tube is gone. I also put a spacer in place of the valve at the outlet, which was no longer working.

[KULTULZ]

... the choke lever in my carb's choke housing has no slot in it (unlike most I've seen, which have a slot.) I.e., it needs a choke element/spring that encircles the lever to move it rather than fits in the slot. The one in the kit they sent was for slotted levers. So that was three strikes against that kit, so I said forget it.

I'm sorry to hear that.

I think what is going on as evidenced by the bent levers is that someone previously tried a flat rate repair and caused more damage than good.

Below is a choke cap that should-may fit your housing. It is difficult to ID hard parts without the CARB ID NO.

My thought is that you need a complete choke housing assy.