Crossing into Canada

[Geo. H]

I've sold my '30 A to a man in Canada. He's coming for the car Saturday. The car's engine has been replaced, and the number on the engine does not match the number on the title. Will this cause a problem at the border? Would a bill of sale listing the frame number and the engine number be helpful? Thanks for your help.

[donh]

I am not an expert, but from my experience the more documentation you can give him,the better. Bill of sale, cleaning the frame serial number for easy viewing, document the change of engine, my help him get through customs. It is not as easy as it used to be, but not impossible.
Hopefully, he has done his homework and asked the Canadian officials which documents he needs.
Good Luck!
Don

[ronn]

Geo, this could be a problem. All depends on who he is dealing with. When the #'s don't match,
red flag goes up. Brother had the same problem when selling an old vw convertible 2 years ago. They would not let it cross.
good luck and let us know how it works out.

[QGolden]

Geo,
As Don said, hopefully he has done his homework. It is incumbent on him to get it into Canada, not you. Although I realize you want to provide him with everything he needs. I sold a couple of Harley's to some folks in Canada. They both did their homework and let me know what they needed ahead of time, and I sent it along. They did need copies of the Titles showing the VIN ahead of time, and I had to get a document from a Harley Dealer that certified that all of the recalls were up to date. The Dealer must have done it frequently as he just ran my VIN's through his computer and printed out the documents. I realize that recalls data may not apply to your situation, but my point is that the buyers were well educated and knew what they needed.

[barnstuf]

About 20 years ago I sold a Model A that was being driven to Canada and had the same paper work problem. The solution we used then may not be applicable today, but it worked then. I stamped the frame number, as was on the title, onto one of the blank body number plates the dealers sell, and attached that to the firewall where it could readily be seen upon opening the hood. Another suggestion is for the buyer not to volunteer information at the border crossing, but to answer questions asked, if any, at the border. Be honest of course. Times have changed but a simple solution MAY be all you need.

[modeleh]

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I agree with barnstuf. Stamp a repro plate and attach to firewall. When border agent asks to see VIN, show them the plate. It will match the paperwork, when they find a match right away, they won't be looking elsewhere and would have no idea there is a number on the engine. If the buyer is organized and prepared when he gets to the border, the agent is happy and gets everything done quickly. If you don't have your paperwork organized, they ask you a question and you stumble and can't come up with an answer, they open the flood gates and soon they bombard you with more and more questions and you are standing there slack jawed going, um, um, ahh, ahh, um.
When I import a vehicle, I get a 3 ring binder and put all documents in there, such as a printout of the online ad where you found the vehicle for sale, title, bill of sale, recall clearances, releases from USA customs, and an important one here is How did you pay for it? If any transaction was done in a form other than cash, such as paypal, money transfer, etc. The Canadian agents want to see the receipt. They want to make sure the receipt matches the bill of sale, so they can tell if the buyer is trying to pull a fast one by pretending they didn't pay as much for the vehicle to avoid import taxes. If you say you payed cash, they only have your word that the price on the bill of sale is correct. But if they find a paper trail saying a transfer came out of your account, then you're in trouble.
There was a story about a guy who tried that not too long ago, and the border agents figured it out and charged him something like 15 grand tax on a vehicle he payed about 10 for, but he was trying to tell them he payed 2. They have their ways of figuring things out, so best be honest. They are just tax collectors in a different uniform.

[Jim Parker Toronto]

I can see a big problem starting here, the Border needs at least 2 days notice that you are coming through, and ALL the paper work NEEDS to be in order or, they will hold the car at the border until they are satisfied....

[modeleh]

Yes, but that is the American agents that will give you problems on that one. Importing a vehicle is sort of like running the gauntlet, once you make it past one guy, there's another guy behind him you have to get through. You won't get a warm feeling until the customs station is in your rearview mirror, and you're reading speed limits signs in km/h! Mind you, you can always have problems once you go to get the vehicle inspection and registration done! Like I said, a long line of people to make happy.

[luckyal]

I totally disagree with barnstuff and modeleh. What he is suggesting is legally referred to as circumvention of law and is punishable by severe fine, imprisonment and forfeiture of the vehicle. Don't play games with the bordert as I can assure you that you will lose !
This was a terrible and very risky suggestion !!
Al

[HoarseWhisperer]

Helpful links:

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/det...and-motorcycle)

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/roadsafety/s...-index-445.htm

My time with the US export office was ten minutes as everything matched and paperwork submitted 72 hours in advance.

Time with Canadian Customs was 2 1/2 hours as they frisked me, searched websites, called the US seller verifying price and interrogated me. Not the most pleasant time I've spent.

[CarlG]

I knew it !!!! Luckyal IS the Canadian Mountie!

[luckyal]

Carl G
or the American Custom's Broker.
Al

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by CarlG

I knew it !!!! Luckyal IS the Canadian Mountie!

Its very obvious

[modeleh]

Contrary to what Al might think he knows, there is nothing illegal with what was suggested. You are stamping the original number that is on an inconspicuous place on the frame to a plate that will be in a conspicuous place where it will please the border agent who is just ensuring all the documents match so he can collect the taxes for the Canadian government.

[1931 flamingo]

Hopefully the purchaser has been made aware of this discrepancy??
paul in CT

[spdway1]

Hire an shipping Agent.

[luckyal]

Barnstuff and Modeleh
Al here and I apologize for jumping to conclusions. I thought you were attempting to say that the repro plate was an original identification plate and I was sure the border agent would know it was not so.
I apologize if I offended either of you.
Regards, Al Luckins

[woodypecker]

Let us know how it turns out so we can learn.

[Gerard]

Allright here is my experience with the import of 4 cars in the last 7 years ( from the USA in to Canada )

1) You have to get a EXPORT permit . to get a export permit you have to get a form from the US border agent were you want to go through with your car.

2) This form has to be send to a US agency directed by the US border people.
In my case it was a homeland securety office in Montana .

3) The mentioned form has to be acompanied with a bill of sale, copy of the title

signed over to the buyer,

The form and the documents has to be faxed to the agency as mentioned .

You then have to wait for 3 day's and contact the border (US side ) by phone and ask if the permit is given. If so ...you'r done with them. They check at arrival for the numbers and the original documents you have faxed.

At the Canadian side you have to present the signed documents ( released for export ) to them , Pay your Duty's and of you go with your new toy,

Succes,

Gerard

[Geo. H]

Update. The Canadian buyer crossed the border with only a little difficulty. Putting both engine no and frame no on the bill of sale helped, as did having a copy of the original ad. Thanks for all of your suggestions