Body number question

[lance leblanc]

After clearing up my confusion on body number locations and finding the correct number it has only added another question. Where was my 29 Tudor assembled?
It appears that the first letter is an indiscernible mis-punched followed by Y then by the obvious 348497.

If I read Dave Sturges' chart correctly I would assume that the mis-punched letter is a letter K making it KY and assembled in Kearny New Jersey. However I find it difficult to believe the mis-punched letter that poorly punched.

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by lance leblanc

After clearing up my confusion on body number locations and finding the correct number it has only added another question. Where was my 29 Tudor assembled?
It appears that the first letter is an indiscernible mis-punched followed by Y then by the obvious 348497.

If I read Dave Sturges' chart correctly I would assume that the mis-punched letter is a letter K making it KY and assembled in Kearny New Jersey. However I find it difficult to believe the mis-punched letter that poorly punched.

That seems like one hell of a lot of numbers unless Kearny counted the 1928 vehicle production also within that number...Let's see now...

In 1929 there were 24444 Tudors built and a total of all vehicles for 1929 at Kearny was 123254.

In 1928 there were 20239 Tudors built and a total of all vehicles for 1928 at Kearny was 77734.

Total Tudors for 1928-1929 would be 44683 and a total of all vehicles for 28-29 would of been 200988.

That still does not answer the 147509 extra vehicles...unless someone who was punching out the numbers punched too many...

Is the body original to the frame? What is the engine number on the frame...gas tank date?

Pluck

[lance leblanc]

This is the original body, the original engine was cored to JC Whitney in 1963 by my father-in-law. The Frame number that matches the Title is A2306575.
I have yet to locate a gas tank date.

[Marco Tahtaras]

Unfortunately this puzzle may never be solved. I got into this with Dave Sturges last year and opened a can of worms. Then I dropped the ball due to taking on too much. All the records need to be "revisited" with body type in mind. It's my contention that different body types were built at different branches and cross shipped within surrounding area branches for final assembly. That would mean that each body type would have just a few branch stampings and other body types would have stampings from different branches.

[Barry B./ Ma.]

Originally Posted by Steve Plucker

That seems like one hell of a lot of numbers unless Kearny counted the 1928 vehicle production also within that number...Let's see now...

In 1929 there were 24444 Tudors built and a total of all vehicles for 1929 at Kearny was 123254.

In 1928 there were 20239 Tudors built and a total of all vehicles for 1928 at Kearny was 77734.

Total Tudors for 1928-1929 would be 44683 and a total of all vehicles for 28-29 would of been 200988.

That still does not answer the 147509 extra vehicles...unless someone who was punching out the numbers punched too many...

Is the body original to the frame? What is the engine number on the frame...gas tank date?

Pluck

Morning Pluck, While we are on the subject of numbers do you know where 1929 # 1,000,000 was assembled into a complete car? My 29 tudor was 178 short of a million 'assembled in Somerville Ma. and had a gas tank date of 2-6-29. I know engine # 1,000,000 was finished on 2-4-29 but where did it end up?? Just curious, thanks, Barry B./ Ma.

[Steve Plucker]

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Originally Posted by Barry B./ Ma.

Morning Pluck, While we are on the subject of numbers do you know where 1929 # 1,000,000 was assembled into a complete car? My 29 tudor was 178 short of a million 'assembled in Somerville Ma. and had a gas tank date of 2-6-29. I know engine # 1,000,000 was finished on 2-4-29 but where did it end up?? Just curious, thanks, Barry B./ Ma.

Barry,

I am going to take a wild guess here...

If you think (or know) that your 1929 Tudor was a completey, original, assembled car at Somerville, then here is how it stacks up:

0996226 (1)

02/04/29

02/18/29

STD. COUPE

PRVNCTWN, MA

??

14

1028444 (1)

02/11/29

06/04/29

PHAETON

PRVNCTWN, MA

??

113

You will see that engine number A996226 was assembled on 2/4/29. It was shipped to the Somerville Assembly plant, along with other parts, assembled into a Standard Coupe (more than likely a Special Coupe) and was sold as a complete car 14 days later on 2/18/29 at the dealership in Provinctown, MA.

However not so with A1028444...it was not sold as a complete car until 6/4/29...113 days later after assembly of the engine at Dearborn, then at the same dealership in Provinctown, MA. Being a Phaeton, who would want to drive a Phaeton around during that time of the year? So it sat OR it was a case where the engine sat around in the assembly plant, then installed months later and sold. It may have even been a demo model.

These are as close to final assembly as we will get.

But, if you were to review the Somerville, MA assembly plant records on my website (Dealership records), you will see that most of the cars and trucks were assembled and sold between 7-16 days (or later) later from time of the stamping of the engine to it being sold as a complete car or truck days later. Or maybe earlier than that as the vehicles had to get to the dealership from the assembly plant...read the disclaimer atop the Somerville page.

So it is anybodys guess here.

Just what is the Somerville assembly plant number on the body?

Is it the single light assembly or the Twolight assembly?

Forged front running board brace or stamped?

ALSO...Thank you to Richmond Bell for supplying the Provincetown, MA Dealership Records for incorporating into the data.

MAN...I wish I had more dealership and assembly plant records like this! What a wealth of information...Does anybody have any?

As far as A1000000...It could have been shipped anywhere...If it were installed in Dearborn, maybe just a day or so later it was in a car or truck...but if shipped to say Seattle or San Francisco or any of the other plants on the west coast, it may have been 14-28 days later or more.

DARN...THE CHART DID NOT COME OUT AS I HOPED!

Pluck

[stainless steve]

Steve Plucker ..man you are loaded with information and I enjoy everything posted.I have found no #s on my gas tank at all ,I know my engine # and frame match title and my body#s are clear with a SF prefix I will get body #s off tomorrow and look closer at gas tank.My car is a early 1929 sport coupe and I am enjoying restoring and resurching this car.and talking on the FORDBARN . BOY its nice to have internet for that! Oh and reading Bills posts too . Althougth I put more stock in the dog!!!!!!!!

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by stainless steve

Steve Plucker ..man you are loaded with information and I enjoy everything posted.I have found no #s on my gas tank at all ,I know my engine # and frame match title and my body#s are clear with a SF prefix I will get body #s off tomorrow and look closer at gas tank.My car is a early 1929 sport coupe and I am enjoying restoring and resurching this car.and talking on the FORDBARN . BOY its nice to have internet for that! Oh and reading Bills posts too . Althougth I put more stock in the dog!!!!!!!!

Yo, Shinin' Steve, you better take stock in the Dog, as he's MUCH smarter than Ol' Bill!!
We always sleep through the "salad" trucks on wed, but today Buster T. alerted me that we now have private label trucks with different "sounds"! I told him, "It's O.K-O.K-O.K, & he slept through the 3rd one. (REALLY!) Bill W.

[darrylkmc]

Here are some photos of where my 35-B 1930 Standard Phaeton, Canadian manufacturer, has the body production number stamped on the side rail near the floor board. Several years ago I inquired about body production numbers stamped in this unusual location, these are the only two I have seen on Detroit assembled bodies.

CAT3610
6F1903 Phaeton, Detroit

The sister car to mine came to Alaska from Canada at the same time as my car in 1959, it also has the body number stamped in this same location.

CAE9568
6F1426

Does any one out there have or has any one seen Body Production Numbers stamped at this location on Detroit Bodies?
I am especially interested in Phaetons built in Canada, at home and export models.

Darryl in Fairbanks

[Bick in New Zealand]

All Canadian 30/31 phaetons were stamped with the 6F ..... prefix. Here in NZ 35B's are reasonably common, all are stamped with this prefix. I have quite a list of numbers / engines / features etc.

[darrylkmc]

Originally Posted by Bick in New Zealand

All Canadian 30/31 phaetons were stamped with the 6F ..... prefix. Here in NZ 35B's are reasonably common, all are stamped with this prefix. I have quite a list of numbers / engines / features etc.

Bick,

Thanks for your reply.

Where is the location of the Body Number stamping on the Phaetons that you have seen?
Do you have any photos that you could post?

Darryl in Fairbanks

[Bick in New Zealand]

They are in the same place as the pictures you posted. I will have look tonight when I get home for some pictures.

[Bick in New Zealand]

The only picture I have is 6F1903!
There were 1124 35B Phaetons imported from Canada to New Zealand.
Ford of Canada produced 9857 35Bs in 30/31.
These are the numbers I have on the NZ Register:
6F585
6F683
6F713
6F1199
6F1291
6F1438
6F1459
6F2049
6F2057
6F2074
6F2111
6F2266
6F2394
6F2558
6F2642
6F2884
6F2949
6F2960
6F2960
6F3119
6F3364
6F3504
6F3355
6F3357
6F3471
6F3596
6F4500
6F4506
6F4519
6F4523
6F4527
6F4531
6F4533
6F4573
6F4619
6F4638
6F4645
6F4674
6F4718
6F4917
6F5017
6F5356
6F5368
6F5377
6F5374

[darrylkmc]

Bick,

Thanks for the comprehensive information, don't recall having seen the export figures before. I would think that there were more Phaetons exported from Canada than stayed at home. There are only 3 Phaetons in Alaska that I know of, two are here in Fairbanks. I don't know where the one in Anchorage was manufactured, I have never seen it.

Just to clarify, as far as you know all of these body production numbers were stamped in the same location as are shown in the photos of my Phaeton?

If you should come across any photos or perhaps a Phaeton that you could get a photo of, I would be interested in seeing other Body Number stamps.

Thanks again,

Darryl in Fairbanks

[RHD]

Below are 2 more body numbers.
6F585 belongs to the dark green phaeton.
Both cars are of Canadian origin.

[darrylkmc]

Les,

Thanks much for the photos.

As far as I know, until now, Body Production Numbers stamped onto the side rail by the left door is Not Recognized as a location used by the Rouge.

This is now 4 '30/'31 Phaetons that I have seen stamped in this location.

My Phaeton was also originally painted one color of Dark Green and nearly identical to the one in your photo, except mine is LHD and has no side mount spare.

Darryl in Fairbanks

[Tudortomnz]

Darryl
I had come to believe that '''F'' was only used by Detroit. Wrong! Discussion on MTFCA on late Model T body numbers [ Hap Tucker is the guru] shows the main Ontario Plant [ Ford City in that era] stamped Model T firewalls with an F for Ontario.
US assembled T's were stamped on the floor like Model A's.
The other Canadian assembly plants used W, V T & M.
Nearly all the Model A's [RHD] exported to NZ were at least semi built up from the large Ontario plant & are stamped F......
This is my unofficial opinion. It would be unlikely Canada was using US built up bodies except for some low volume types eg. Cabriolets, Deluxe Phaetons etc?

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by Tudortomnz

Darryl
I had come to believe that '''F'' was only used by Detroit. Wrong! Discussion on MTFCA on late Model T body numbers [ Hap Tucker is the guru] shows the main Ontario Plant [ Ford City in that era] stamped Model T firewalls with an F for Ontario.
US assembled T's were stamped on the floor like Model A's.
The other Canadian assembly plants used W, V T & M.
Nearly all the Model A's [RHD] exported to NZ were at least semi built up from the large Ontario plant & are stamped F......
This is my unofficial opinion. It would be unlikely Canada was using US built up bodies except for some low volume types eg. Cabriolets, Deluxe Phaetons etc?

Were they not all shipped out of Vancouver BC to NZ?

I have a map somewhere showing the routes the ships used.

Pluck

[darrylkmc]

Tudortomnz

"I had come to believe that '''F'' was only used by Detroit"

It seems to me that the Phaetons from Canada did not follow the US system
for Body Production Numbers.

This would lead me to believe that the Body Production Number is of Canadian origin.

Darryl in Fairbanks

[Tudortomnz]

Darryl
My point was that the Canadian Model A's with 'F'' stamped bodies were Canadian built ; the numbers seen do correspond to Canadian production numbers which were much lower than US production. My late '29 Tudor is F4-17035 & 20,800 approx. Tudors were built in Canada at end of 1929 production.

Steve Plucker; re shipping to NZ. I have not seen any information on routes that Ford Canada used to New Zealand & Australia. In the late Model T era they were coming from Eastern Seaboard as well as West Coast because of the Panama Canal.
There is a lot of Australian production info but in that era New Zealand was serviced by a local distributor & agent for Ford Canada & not much detailed info survives