Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-29-2021, 08:14 AM   #1
hazelhoff
Senior Member
 
hazelhoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 387
Default Door gap

My ‘29 tudor has a problem closing her doors. Whatever I do to the latches or their counterparts in the B-post, they won’t stay closed when driving.
The gap between the side of the door and the B-post is some 0.55 “ which seems a lot to me !
Please, some one owning a stock model A, would you do me a favour and tell me what you are measuring ?

Henk
__________________
You don’t own a Model A ... it owns you !
hazelhoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2021, 08:28 AM   #2
ronn
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ
Posts: 6,758
Default Re: Door gap

frankly, that is a lot. on all of the As I own, the gap varies greatly. you may need to shim your doors in order to keep them closed.
ronn is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 05-29-2021, 09:35 AM   #3
Oldbluoval
Senior Member
 
Oldbluoval's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Signal Mtn, TN (SE TN)
Posts: 2,360
Default Re: Door gap

I try to set gaps approx 1/8”...3/16 even looks too much
Oldbluoval is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2021, 10:42 AM   #4
GerryAllen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Birch Bay WA
Posts: 190
Default Re: Door gap

Ronn, shim them with what and how?
GerryAllen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2021, 12:13 PM   #5
hazelhoff
Senior Member
 
hazelhoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 387
Default Re: Door gap

Exactly ! What to shimm ? Did different Model A’s have variations in door width? My doors are from a donor car ... don’t have a clue from what model ?
__________________
You don’t own a Model A ... it owns you !
hazelhoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2021, 06:58 PM   #6
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,371
Default Re: Door gap

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Most major variations in fit come from tweeked frames, amateur body repairs, and good old wear & tear. Judging how much to compensate with shims depends on fit all the way around the door frame and with other body parts. The body mounts may need shims or possibly door hinges if they are easily removable. Some doors are easier to shim than others but closing a gap on one side opens a gap on the other.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2021, 07:22 PM   #7
schwartzstuart6
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 7
Default Re: Door gap

Have you tried to shimm?

Sent from my SM-A107F using Tapatalk
schwartzstuart6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2021, 09:22 PM   #8
Bill G
Senior Member
 
Bill G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Walla Walla, WA
Posts: 1,044
Default Re: Door gap

That is a huge gap. Is it even top to bottom or is it tight on one end and a large gap on the other. For the Tudor, the only real adjustment is the door latch in the lock pillar, which can be moved in and out.

If the door is uneven, for example tight at the top and a big gap at the bottom, the door can be "adjusted" by grabbing the door at the top and pulling out while it is open and pushing in at the bottom. The door could have gotten a little twisted over time.
Bill G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2021, 06:17 AM   #9
hazelhoff
Senior Member
 
hazelhoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 387
Default Re: Door gap

The gap is actually between the right hand side of the inner door (where the latch is mounted) and the lock-pillar. So longitudinal. The door is not twisted ! The gap is all the way down from top to bottom. 0.55 inches wide.
In the past I took the body apart and mounted a new subframe. But took care of exactly copying the old subframe. My original doors did fit, but were rusted severely, so I bought some doors, don’t know where they came from/off.
I start wondering: did different model A’s have different door-widths ? I mean, varying by model or manufacturer ?
Please if you possess a stock Tudor, measure the door width for me !

Henk
__________________
You don’t own a Model A ... it owns you !
hazelhoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2021, 06:29 AM   #10
hazelhoff
Senior Member
 
hazelhoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 387
Default Re: Door gap

Bill, with respect the striker plates, yes they move in or out. But I have make them go up and down shimming them. But .55” shims is a lot !
__________________
You don’t own a Model A ... it owns you !
hazelhoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2021, 07:11 AM   #11
bobbader
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Huntington, NY
Posts: 268
Default Re: Door gap

On 28/29 cars Coupe & Tudor Sedan doord are all the same. Fordor and Cabriolet doors differ greatly since the belt rail moldings are rounded instead of flat but the front hinge mechanisms are also totally different. So, as long as you have doors that match in hinges & contour of the belt rail, they are correct. There may be a problem with the gap related to replacing the subrails but, if the gap is uniform from top to bottom on both doors, I kinda doubt that. The next issue is wear on both the latch mechanisms and the strikers. Start with the easy part. Original strikers, after 90 years, have enough wear to cause the situation you have where the doors open going around a turn. But, they usually wear evenly from top to bottom, so the amount of wear is hard to judge. And, given that they are adjustable, most of us think that will remedy any wear that exists. However, they were not made adjustable to deal with 90 years of wear. They were made adjustable to provide optimum engagement with latches that were not likewise worn from 90 years of opening and closing. Rather than worrying about the gap, I'd study wear in both the strikers and latch mechanisms and act accordingly from there. Look for rounded off edges on the strikers. Shake the "flapper" bar on the latches to check for wear in the pins that hold them in place (and the tabs that hold the pins into the latch). The internal springs in the latch mechanisms take a beating. They could possibly use replacement. Sounds like your latches & strikers secure the door in place OK ................... until you round a corner and the body twists. In this case, OK is only good enough to keep the doors closed while going down the road. If you think about the fact that the original doors were badly rusted and the subrails needed replacement, that says a lot about the overall condition of the car to suggest that the condition of a relatively small item like the striker plate might call for some further study. Start there.

Good luck. Bob Bader
bobbader is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2021, 07:35 AM   #12
Big hammer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Land of Lincoln
Posts: 3,114
Default Re: Door gap

Thinking out loud.....you replaced the doors with unknown doors and ( hinges ) ? I would take a good look at the hinges. I'am thinking out loud that your new hinges are bent forward ? Maybe you can bend the pillar half of the hinges rearward which would close the gap, I'am thinking that 1/4-3/16 gap would be normal
__________________
Don't force it with a little hammer tap, tap, tap
get a bigger hammer tap done
Big hammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2021, 08:30 AM   #13
hazelhoff
Senior Member
 
hazelhoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 387
Default Re: Door gap

Bob, great thinking, but ... strikers, latches etc. are all new ! Yes, I took the body apart but, saved the old subframe to measure things. That’s why I would like somebody else to measure their doors to be able to compare ...
Do you know if Ford made the doors themselves ?
__________________
You don’t own a Model A ... it owns you !
hazelhoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2021, 08:33 AM   #14
hazelhoff
Senior Member
 
hazelhoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 387
Default Re: Door gap

Big Hammer,

No, original hinges ! Gonna see if I could have turned them around accidenlty by mistake ! Good thinking !!!
__________________
You don’t own a Model A ... it owns you !
hazelhoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2021, 09:46 AM   #15
katy
Senior Member
 
katy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Red Deer, Alberta
Posts: 5,011
Default Re: Door gap

Quote:
My original doors did fit, but were rusted severely, so I bought some doors, don’t know where they came from/off.
Are the replacement doors the same width as the originals?
__________________
If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!.
Got my education out behind the barn!
katy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2021, 10:04 AM   #16
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,371
Default Re: Door gap

When I take a body apart whether it's a car or an aircraft, I check everything for fit during the build up process and before riveting. This way I can make adjustments for fit before final assembly. Once it's all nailed down, it's harder to correct for ill fit. I lived and learned all this back when I was rebuilding wrecked helicopters. Ultimately everything has to fit well and with no jigs there is no better way to do it. Problems that can't be corrected easily are not fun at all.

I would modify the doors to match the old ones since that is what you fit it with. You just need to do a structural analysis of your old doors if you still have them and the replacements then see exactly where the difference is. Over 1/2-inch is just too much gap.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 05-30-2021 at 10:12 AM.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2021, 01:50 PM   #17
hazelhoff
Senior Member
 
hazelhoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 387
Default Re: Door gap

Katy, I don’t know whether they were the same width. I sold the old doors to a hotrodder before I bought the repacements.
__________________
You don’t own a Model A ... it owns you !
hazelhoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2021, 02:02 PM   #18
hazelhoff
Senior Member
 
hazelhoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 387
Default Re: Door gap

Rotorwrench. You are absolutely right. You are describing the way I rebuilt the coachwork. The old doors were used to assure the body was square, correct door opening etc.
There simply MUST be something going on with the width of the ‘new’ doors ... I just wish I new where they came from.
__________________
You don’t own a Model A ... it owns you !
hazelhoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2021, 07:14 AM   #19
hazelhoff
Senior Member
 
hazelhoff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 387
Default Re: Door gap

Looking at pictures of Model A’s, I suspect I may have Coupe doors or something. Anybody having data on interchangeability of doors ?

Henk
__________________
You don’t own a Model A ... it owns you !
hazelhoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2021, 12:52 PM   #20
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,371
Default Re: Door gap

In 1928 & 29 all the Coupe doors were the same and they are the same as the Tudor Sedan for those years as well. This changed in 1930 along with belt line and the reveal designs and with other differences. The doors were lengthened for the later Tudor Sedans.

Is your car a product that was assembled in one of the European plants or was it exported from the US as a complete car? I think most of the European model A production was knock down in 1928 & 29 so they should be the same anyway but I'm not certain of anything Ford completely. There were left and right hand drive versions. The Tudor Sedans were a very popular car but Ford did have subcontractors making some of the sheet metal parts. Ford Dearborn had big jigs to assemble the Tudor bodies but I don't know if any other plants did this in 28 or 29.

Take a measurement of your doors from front to back and post it so that others can compare the measurement to their coupes or tudors. I can compare it to my Sport Coupe doors.
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:57 AM.