Rear Hub Torque

[KenBolton]

After reading here that rear hubs should be torqued to 100 ft lbs I decided to check mine. Both were substantially less. I torqued up the Coupe with good results. However, on the pickup it moved the hubs inward to the point that the outside of the nut was inside the cotter pin hole in the axel. I added two washers and retorqued each side. No binding or rubbing on the backing plate. But now I’m thinking I should remove the added washers and install axel shims.
What are your opinions? I also question whether these nuts need to be at 100 lbs as long as inward/outward slack is minimized and the cotter pin locks the nut from turning.

[katy]

I hope that you used hardened washers.

[Jack Shaft]

The axle/hub is an interference fit, one degree angle difference between the axle and the hub, once the two contact the fastener torque should rise, it shouldn't 'pull' the axle. Disassemble the side that pulled deeper and inspect.

[Patrick L.]

Yes that retainer nut needs to be tight. So you now have 3 washers on that side ? As long as the drum doesn't contact the backing plate or there isn't any interference with the parking brake, I don't think I'd worry about it. But 3 washers seems a bit much.

[wwirz]

You may have lost the 100 ft-lbs of torque over time. Remember to NEVER put oil or worse yet grease on the taper. Next time you have the hub off, you may want to check the amount of contact you have on the taper fit with bluing. If the bluing is lightly applied you should have about 80% blue contact

[Synchro909]

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Originally Posted by wwirz

You may have lost the 100 ft-lbs of torque over time. Remember to NEVER put oil or worse yet grease on the taper. Next time you have the hub off, you may want to check the amount of contact you have on the taper fit with bluing. If the bluing is lightly applied you should have about 80% blue contact

Not only do you never let any form of lubrication near the tapers, clean them thoroughly before assembly and don't even touch them in the mean time.

[KenBolton]

Has anyone used the taper sleeves? I have set from a hub rebuild kit.

[WHN]

Over the last 40 years I have also had to add one additional washer to drivers side rear axel.

I was going to use a shim but the washer did the trick.

As mentioned above, make sure it is hardened steel.

I was told may years ago by an old time Model A mechanic that one reason rear hubs are mounted loose is lining up the cotter pin.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by KenBolton

Has anyone used the taper sleeves? I have set from a hub rebuild kit.

I bought my '28 Tudor out of the US and the previous owner hadn't been very good with his servicing and maintenance. One hub had two shims in it. I drove it for a while like that but I had to keep an eagle eye on the tension on the nut. It loosened quite quickly. By the time I was able to replace the axle and hub they were both completely ruined. I even found that one shim had been pushed right into the hub and had chewed up the seal on the axle. What a mess but it was an extreme case of what amounted to abuse.
FWIW, I also found on that car that the gearbox oil level hadn't been checked for ages. The big gear at the front of the lower shaft was just dipping what little oil remained. All of the gears were galled but I flushed it well several times, replaced the bearings and drove on. That cogbox runs as quiet as any other and has been faultless since. They are TOUGH!

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by WHN

Over the last 40 years I have also had to add one additional washer to drivers side rear axel.

I was going to use a shim but the washer did the trick.

As mentioned above, make sure it is hardened steel.

I was told may years ago by an old time Model A mechanic that one reason rear hubs are mounted loose is lining up the cotter pin.

I see how that happens but IMO, it is only laziness. I get the split pin lined up by taking a small amount of metal off the back of the nut

[aermotor]

[QUOTE=Synchro909;1964900]I see how that happens but IMO, it is only laziness. I get the split pin lined up by taking a small amount of metal off the back of the nut[/QUOE]

I can't see where over torqueing by an extra 30 pounds or so to line up the pin would cause any harm considering most torque comments are finding the nuts loose.
John

[Tom Endy]

Over the years I have read and heard that the rear axle nuts should be torqued to anywhere between 85 ft. lbs. to 120 ft. lbs. depending on who is telling the story.

The procedure I have always used is to set my torque wrench at 90 ft. lbs. and tighten until it clicks, then observe where the cotter pin hole is. If it is on the money I leave it there, if not I tighten more until it lines up. I use the same procedure for the drive shaft nut.

Tom Endy

[nkaminar]

On a Model T it is quite common to have the axle move in and out to the point where the inside drum will rub on a corner. Not sure if a Model A has the same problem.

The instructions say to never back off the nut to line up the cotter pin. Always tighten more.

Over time the hub and axle will wear which is what the shim is designed to fix.

Tightening the axle nut is a maintenance task and should be done once a year or more depending on how much the car is driven.

Besides cleaning the hub and axle, some people put a thread locking compound on these parts to keep the axle and hub solid. It takes some heat to soften the thread locking compound when removing the hub.

[Synchro909]

[QUOTE=aermotor;1964908]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

I see how that happens but IMO, it is only laziness. I get the split pin lined up by taking a small amount of metal off the back of the nut[/QUOE]

I can't see where over torqueing by an extra 30 pounds or so to line up the pin would cause any harm considering most torque comments are finding the nuts loose.
John

I don't mind going a bit over but if the nut is nearly a whole face short, I don't want to stretch the threaded end of the axle. I've seen plenty where that has been their fate over the years.

[alexiskai]

Good time to mention that Mike's is having a sale this week on rear axle parts.

[Pete]

Has anyone ever given some thought as to WHY rear axle nuts come loose and need to be snugged up once in awhile?

There was a thread on this forum back in November about this.

[katy]

Originally Posted by Pete

Has anyone ever given some thought as to WHY rear axle nuts come loose and need to be snugged up once in awhile?

The axle nuts need to be more than"snugged up", they need to be tightened properly.

I suspect axle nuts that come loose would be caused by:

1) Not properly cleaning the parts before assembly.

2) Not properly tightening the nut.

3) Worn or improperly fitting parts.

[KenBolton]

I pulled both hubs again. One snugged up nicely with only the addition of a sleeve. The other required both a sleeve and one additional axel nut. Thank you to all who provided input!

[Pete]

Originally Posted by katy

The axle nuts need to be more than"snugged up", they need to be tightened properly.

I suspect axle nuts that come loose would be caused by:

1) Not properly cleaning the parts before assembly.

2) Not properly tightening the nut.

3) Worn or improperly fitting parts.

Give that guy a seegar.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by KenBolton

I pulled both hubs again. One snugged up nicely with only the addition of a sleeve. The other required both a sleeve and one additional axel nut. Thank you to all who provided input!

Sleeves are NOT the way to fix a taper problem.
If the parts don't fit as original, it is a short term fix.