1934 Pickup Frustration- Ready to jump out a one story building

[phartman]

Stock 1/2 ton pickup with unusually stiff steering. OK in the mornings when cold, but once the motor heats up to operating temperature, the stiffer the steering becomes. If I drive to breakfast and the truck sits for a hour, for instance, when I come back to drive home, the steering is uncomfortably difficult.

I am running straight 140 weight in the steering box. A number of other lubes have been tried, none seem to make much difference.

I went to grease the front end and found some problems. First, when jacked up off the ground, I cannot grab both tires and turn them at all to the right or the left. The only way to turn the tires back and forth is with the steering wheel.

Second, all the fittings took grease, except the passenger side upper kingpin grease fitting. I have removed the fitting and cleaned it. Sprayed both PB Blaster and WD40 into the hole and tried to dissolve some of the hardened grease, but to no avail. That fitting just doesn't seem to want to take any lube. I have two different grease guns, and neither worked.

So before I go any further, let's start with that fitting. What are some other methods to try and get the grease to flow into that lubrication point? Heat it with a heat gun? Try some other penetrating oil? Ideas?

Thanks in advance. I know somebody out there has been through the same.

[phartman]

Two other points...I have no idea when the kingpins were last replaced. And approximately 10" up the steering column from the steering box, there is a concave dimple in the wall of the steering tube. Could that somehow be causing friction to the steering shaft? I have tried to research to see if there is a bearing in the tube that the steering shaft rides in. Perhaps that is damaged? Dunno....

[Kurt in NJ]

Disconnect the pitman arm, then turn gear, then grab and try wheels---- sounds like perhaps a tight kingpin , unhook tie rod and try each side

[Ggmac]

Suggest as above but wonder if it just idles till warm does it drive or turn harder ? It would not make sense if it does unless the exhaust is heating up an already tight fitting part .

[drolston]

The only part close enough to the engine to be affected by heat is the steering box, which sits right beside the left exhaust manifold. Maybe the steering sector and worm gear are expanding enough when hot to get too tight. Maybe back off a bit on the adjustment on top of the steering box. Instructions for that are on this site and in the Ford shop manual for the truck.

[Bob C]

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With the grease fitting remove can you get grease to go through the fitting? If yes
try running a drill bit in the spindle hole to get the dried grease out.


Bob

[phartman]

Originally Posted by drolston

The only part close enough to the engine to be affected by heat is the steering box, which sits right beside the left exhaust manifold. Maybe the steering sector and worm gear are expanding enough when hot to get too tight. Maybe back off a bit on the adjustment on top of the steering box. Instructions for that are on this site and in the Ford shop manual for the truck.

This explanation makes the most sense to me, too, and it is what I have suspected. I have searched high and low for the adjustment thread, however, and can't seem to locate it. Could you point me in the right direction? Thanks.

[phartman]

Originally Posted by Kurt in NJ

Disconnect the pitman arm, then turn gear, then grab and try wheels---- sounds like perhaps a tight kingpin , unhook tie rod and try each side

Thank you for this idea. How about this plan? Go run the truck until the steering tightens up. Come back to my garage and disconnect the pitman arm. Then I can begin to isolate the problem: whether it is in the box up to the steering wheel; or if it is in the front end, most likely the kingpins.

[phartman]

Originally Posted by Bob C

With the grease fitting remove can you get grease to go through the fitting? If yes
try running a drill bit in the spindle hole to get the dried grease out.


Bob

Bob, yes, I can get grease through the fitting. I even swapped the top and bottom fittings just to be sure. Any other ways to get the dried grease out of the joint? Again, it is only the upper kingpin greasepoint on the passenger side.

Does it make a difference what direction I have the wheels turned when I go to lube with the greasegun???

And, yes, both wheels are off the ground.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by phartman

Does it make a difference what direction I have the wheels turned when I go to lube with the greasegun???

No, the wheel position is not a factor. It is possible that the upper bushing in not installed correctly and is blocking the hole. Until you get something loose in the steering linkage (pitman arm, tie rods, etc) it is going to be difficult to determine which part is causing the issue.

[phartman]

Originally Posted by JSeery

It is possible that the upper bushing in not installed correctly and is blocking the hole.

Very possibly. How might I check for that???

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by phartman

Very possibly. How might I check for that???

Not easy as it is a fairly small hole. Might try measuring the depth of the other holes and compare them, but the thickness of the bushing is not that much, so the difference will not be a lot. I would isolate the problem before going much further.

[phartman]

Originally Posted by JSeery

I would isolate the problem before going much further.

Yes. First priority is to determine why the lube fitting is not taking grease. Once the suspension is properly lubed, then move onto a diagnosis. That is, it a steering box/column problem or suspension problem.

If I cannot get the grease fitting to lube properly, well, then that will demand a different course of action.

[J Franklin]

If necessary, removing the kingpin is not too difficult. It will also give you an opportunity to check out the brakes up front and repack the bearings.

[Flathead Fever]

Do you have enough space to make a temporary heat shield between the steering box and the exhaust that will leave an air gap? That will deflect some of the heat and allow some fresh air to circulate between the shield and the box. I'm guessing you have headers. I know its going to be a pretty tight fit to get a heat shield in there. They are usually so tight you have to dimple the tube to clear the '34 box. There must be a lot of '32 -'34 Fords with the exhaust close to the steering box and I have not heard anybody complain about the their box tightening up. You could wrap the header tube with heat wrap. I think O' Reileys has some in there little performance parts section.

Does the back lash in the steering wheel change with the heat? The box should be adjusted so there is no play with the wheel in the straight ahead position but they will have a little play just off of that tight center spot. That's a perfect box which 99% of the time they are not and they have some slop in them. If your does not have any play you might have to give it some. Loosen it up a 1/4 turn and see if it makes a difference. You can always turn it back that 1/4 turn. If the play changes with heat that would indicate the problem was in the box. Like Drolston suggest (great idea) maybe something is heating up and expanding in there.

I can't see the heat having anything to do with the king pin. You still need to fix that grease zerk regardless so you might as well start there. I don't know if you can look in the zerk's hole and see the spindle's bushing turning on the king pin through the grease hole in the bushing or you would see the back of the bushing if that hole wasn't lined up with the zerk? I just went through this on a tractor. The zerk would not take any grease in the position it was sitting in until I took the weight off of the joint, Then the grease went right in. You could try jacking up the a axle and taking the weight off of the king pin. I doubt it will work but you never know.

Take a look at the other thread just posted on the 1935 Ford Indy cars. All of the Ford entries steerings seized up early in the race because the steering's universal joint was too close to the exhaust manifold. There is an excellent photo in that thread that shows the problem.

[TomT/Williamsburg]

Spoke with Pete about his problem this morning. Grease goes through the fitting and I said there must be some old fried up grease in there that is impeding flow. But one thing Pete told me sticks with me - he was able to grease it once before when the wheel was at full lock (can’t remember which way). So, as one or more has said here, the bushing may have moved so the holes do not line up and no grease can flow.

So with the grease fitting out if you can go lock to lock trying to line up the grease fitting hole and the bushing hole perhaps using the top side of a drill bit that fits somewhat loose in the hole. If that bushing is moving it should get back to the right location at some point. I also said to remove the kingpin and see if the bushing is loose and inspectvthings andcsercwhatvelse might be the matter. Whatever way you do it, line things up, insert the kingpin and grease fitting and see what happens when you attempt to grease it. If it flows you have what is your problem. Although you can grease it now, new bushings should be installed along with new kingpins.

Unless the steering box is adjusted way too tight, and he has fiddled with this before with no luck, the grease issue, imho, is where the problem resides ...

[1931 flamingo]

I don't think once the bushing is installed it moves............................
Paul in CT

[jimTN]

Jack the axle up and put it on stands when it gets hard to turn and then see what is free or not. If a steering gear is out of adjustment, it will be constant so its important to isolate the problem before making adjustments.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

I don't think once the bushing is installed it moves............................
Paul in CT

If the bushing is moving there is a problem!

[TomT/Williamsburg]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

I don't think once the bushing is installed it moves............................
Paul in CT

I agree but right now this seems the only logical conclusion. However, I do know our cars sometimes do not follow logic.! Lol!

[phartman]

I bought one of these tools today that claims it can clear and rejuvenate clogged grease fittings and lubrication points. Tomorrow I am going to give it a try.

My idea is to jack up the front end, and take as much load off the passenger side kingpin as possible and try and clear the greasejoint.

I am curious if any of you have used this tool before:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKA2pXciFTE

[325w]

On an old Chevy I warmed the tie rods and king pins with a small Benzine (sp) torch. Had the grease gun hooked to the fitting. Warmed the area and pumped grease. Worked to get the grease moving.

[jimalabam]

Don't jump off that one story building, You might break something. Just try some of the good remedies suggested above...

[phartman]

Originally Posted by 325w

On an old Chevy I warmed the tie rods and king pins with a small Benzine (sp) torch. Had the grease gun hooked to the fitting. Warmed the area and pumped grease. Worked to get the grease moving.

Yes, I have done that same thing. It worked on the other two clogged fittings, but this one has really been stubborn. Tried both the torch and a heat gun, but no luck.

[phartman]

Originally Posted by jimalabam

Don't jump off that one story building, You might break something. Just try some of the good remedies suggested above...

Jump out a ground floor window, maybe???

[Mart]

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It has probably already been mentioned, but I would drop the drag link and the tie rod, so the three main components are free to move independently. (each wheel and the steering box). I would then carefully inspect each of the three elements to try and identify the source of the tightness. Just take everything from first principles. don't forget the tie rod ends and drag link joints.

Also check for correct alignment of all the joints and look for binding.

Then reconnect the tie rod and see if the spindles are still freely able to rotate. Then put the drag link on and recheck.

Hopefully while going through all of the above, something will present itself as the cause of the problem.

It may be worth bearing in mind that the steering box on those models were not the best, hence the move to the roller sector design on the 37 models.

[FlatheadTed]

When these boxes get warn they don't work so well ,I put a NOS 35/36 worm and sector in a 32 box ,I didn't drive it but the feed back was very positive .If the gears are new they can be a Ok box ,

[cas3]

how did you put a 36 gear set in a 32, isnt the sector shaft longer?

[FlatheadTed]

Yes the gear set in the 32 is longer so the 35 spline barely clears the Chassis .I machined of some of the boss on the inside of the sector housing to allow it to come through more ,I may have more detail of what I did somewhere if your interested ,Ted
PS I do have shortened sector housings when running header's ,I may have used one of these ,,

[cas3]

so, you get a 17 to 1 ratio out of it?

[FlatheadTed]

Of topic , I don't want to take over Phartmans Thred ? ,but yes whatever 35 had I think 17to 1

[Flathead Fever]

If you have a blockage and you put enough pressure on a zerk fitting it can push the zerk right out of the hole and take the threads with it. Then you have an additional problem. Been there done that.

[phartman]

Originally Posted by Flathead Fever

If you have a blockage and you put enough pressure on a zerk fitting it can push the zerk right out of the hole and take the threads with it. Then you have an additional problem. Been there done that.

Oh yeaaaaaaaaah. I decided to back off a little on the muscle yesterday so that this wouldn't happen. I did manage to get a little penetrating oil through the zerk. But I am convinced now the bushing/kingpin has twisted in the axle, and cannot take grease. So next step is to replace the kingpins on either side and make certain they are correctly installed.

I don't know that there isn't a problem with the box and steering tube, but we'll get the front suspension right first, then go on to the rest of the steering system.

Thanks for all the help here. Stay tuned for another update, but it may be a while before I can assemble the parts I need for the job here.

[FlatheadTed]

What about drilling through the bush ,it wouldn't matter if you touched the king pin ,in fact a little pocket there could be beneficial .

[phartman]

Originally Posted by FlatheadTed

What about drilling through the bush ,it wouldn't matter if you touched the king pin ,in fact a little pocket there could be beneficial .

Hmmmm...I will have to think about that. I was considering pulling out the pinch bolt, and giving the kingpin a whack to see if disturbing it would allow some grease into the zerk. Never thought about drilling through the bushing. Interesting.

I did mess with the adjustment nut on the steering box, loosened it up a bit. It might have helped a little, but not enough to make a difference.

[FlatheadTed]

Not sure if this will help but ,We did a mercury 39 recently were the car was like a whale on the freeway it would want to take of left or right ,normal driving requires slight adjustments of the wheel as you go .This had no self centring so after a close inspection we realised that the King P bearings were up side down and were seized from getting water in them , Had to remove the axle and drive out the pins (what a Job ) its now a completely deferent car to drive ,The two parts of the bearings should rotate independent ,Follow Marts proses you might find something, We do use jacks under the tyres to take a bit of weight while its on jack stands then turn the wheel .for inspections ,

[Tinker]

The self righting steering wheel was a quite a new thing in the 1920s. Before that you would have to turn the steering wheel to get the front end straight again after a turn. Not something we think about, just something we think is normal.

[cas3]

yup, if it wont self center, something is seized up

[big job]

Originally Posted by FlatheadTed

What about drilling through the bush ,it wouldn't matter if you touched the king pin ,in fact a little pocket there could be beneficial .

I agree, better yet a small end mill that will give a flat bottom (hole)

[phartman]

Originally Posted by FlatheadTed

It would want to take off left or right ,normal driving requires slight adjustments of the wheel as you go .This had no self centring so after a close inspection we realised that the King P bearings were up side down and were seized from getting water in them.,

This sounds exactly like what my truck is doing. Normal driving on a straight road requires constant slight adjustments once the motor is warmed up.

[Mart]

I'd be checking the worm preload in the steering box. I had an f100 that had to be manually centered. I had to add a shim to the worm bearing in the steering box. Steered nice after that.

You have to consider the proximity of the steering box to the exhaust also. It's a lot closer than the kingpins. How else would you explain how things get worse as it warms up?

Mart.

[FlatheadTed]

X 2 on that

[phartman]

I am confused by the procedure description in the shop manual. To add the shims, must I remove the steering column and box from the truck? Or do I just remove the cover, after unbolting the steering column from the dash to give me more clearance?

[JSeery]

I wouldn't call it a cover, to me it would be end plate. Guess I need to check the parts manuel to see what the proper name is!

Ok, Tube and Plate assy (steering gear oil retainer). This is assuming you are referring to the adjustment shims on the worm gear bearings.

Should only have to remover the light control switch.

UPDATE: This is referring to the later steering boxes!!!! The early boxes have the shims on the upper bearing race (as pointed out by cas3 in post #46 below) and does require the removal of the box/column.

[phartman]

Originally Posted by JSeery

I wouldn't call it a cover, to me it would be end plate. Guess I need to check the parts manuel to see what the proper name is!

Ok, Tube and Plate assy (steering gear oil retainer). This is assuming you are referring to the adjustment shims on the worm gear bearings.

Should only have to remover the light control switch.

Got it. Very helpful. Thank you.

I am learning a ton about my old truck here. When problems come along, you can shake your head and curse them as so many owners seem to do. But when it comes to these old Fords, it seems we are richly rewarded for the time we take to learn about how they operate. What a terrific opportunity. I only wish I had started earlier in life. Ain't that the truth about lots of things!

[cas3]

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unless i missed somthing, shims on a 34 box are on the top cover. the bottom is only the cover and light switch. fitting the shim stack is normally done on the bench, in a vise, without the sector shaft in place so you can feel the drag of only the worm and its bearings. to do this in the truck i suppose would be possible, but certainly not how its normally done. i suspect if its getting tight, and been that way for some time, you are going to find it needs more than just adjustment of the worm bearings

[JSeery]

Sorry about that! Believe cas3 is correct, I was thinking of the later steering boxes. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...ng-box.721208/

[Mart]

Personally if it were me I'd drive it until it started to get tight and then just very slightly loosen the bolts holding the upper bearing retainer (not loose as such, just less tight). If the steering frees up that would at least give an indication that that is the area that needs attention.

[phartman]

Originally Posted by JSeery;1752532 [url

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/what-is-the-proper-way-to-adjust-a-1932-1934-ford-steering-box.721208

A review of this thread on the HAMB is interesting. And it confirms what I learned at Jalopyrama this past weekend. Several builders I respect told me they have rebuilt the '32-34 boxes, and still complained their cars were difficult to steer. I am beginning to believe that the hot rodders had it correct: pull the '34 box altogether and go with a more modern alternative.

I am convinced the box and steering column need to be pulled and freshened up in any case, and the kingpins are overdue for replacement. Rebuild what I have, but keep a sharp eye out and an open mind for a Plan B.

[Lawrie]

set up correctly the 33/34 boxes are OK, both ours steer nice ,no play and drive good.
BUT they are a pain to set up .
They must be OK, we are off in the 33 today out to Winton for two weeks on the back roads
Lawrie

[AnthonyG]

As long as it's a window and not the roof u should be fine

[flathead34]

I had the same hard steering problem with my '34 PU. It turned out that the king pins had to be greased. The steering is much better now with the front end greased. Mike

[phartman]

Originally Posted by AnthonyG

As long as it's a window and not the roof u should be fine

Right now, still a ground floor window at that, not the roof!