'34 Pickup Front Wheel Bearings- Technical

[phartman]

I am beginning to suspect that the front wheel bearings on my '34 pickup are going bad. I can hear a pulsing noise coming from the front, and sometimes feel the same in the brake pedal. The truck has 5,000 miles on it since coming to me- the bearings have never been touched as far as I know.

What are the symptoms of a bearing going bad? What are some ways to diagnose a bearing going bad?

Should I pull the bearings, repack, and see if the noise changes?

Go ahead and replace the bearings?

The brakes were upgraded to the modern Lincoln Bendix style when I acquired the truck.

Thanks for your guidance here.

[Kurt in NJ]

Pulsing noise-- and feeling in brake pedal to me would indicate out of round brake drum, bad wheel bearings usually make more of a rumble, most likely you are due for cleaning/repacking , look at lubrication chart in owners instruction book

When you take a bearing/ roller assembly out look at the grease between the rollers, if you see glitter (metal flakes) the bearing or race is coming apart

[phartman]

Is it possible that I am hearing a bad universal? Do those two noises ever imitate each other? The research seems to indicate that, didn't know if in fact that might be the case.

[Lawson Cox]

Check out both. Anything can need work on these old babies.

[phartman]

Checked the lube level in the transmission- it was awfully low. Gotta stay on top of this stuff. I looked at my records and it is embarrassing how long ago I had crawled under the truck to check it.

[Kurt in NJ]

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How long ago has it been since the u- joint has been greased

[David J]

The tranny feeds oil to the u-joint . If your tranny was real low that does not look good for your u-joint .

Originally Posted by phartman

Checked the lube level in the transmission- it was awfully low. Gotta stay on top of this stuff. I looked at my records and it is embarrassing how long ago I had crawled under the truck to check it.

[RalphM]

Jack up the front end and spin one wheel at a time, should be able to feel/hear a bearing going bad. Also grab tire at top and bottom and try and jiggle it. If sloppy could be bearings, or king pin bushings.

[phartman]

The drivetrain was converted to open drive. The u-joints are the modern type that don't require regular maintenance so I have ruled that out.

However, my '40 still has the closed drive. I did not realize the transmission fluid lubed the universals there. Better check that level, too.

Thanks for the info.

[phartman]

It's this noise- not an early Ford transmission, but this same noise:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIInGCnAM18

I am pretty sure I have found the culprit- a piece of the reverse idler gear shaft was in the transmission fluid when I drained it. This piece:



Is this a common problem? Anyone else run into it? Other than the noise, what is the risk in driving the truck until I can pull the transmission.

Thanks.

[TJ]

The risk is a severely damaged transmission and coming home on the end of a tow truck. Sounds to me like you need to park that little pickup and start a maintenance program from front to back.

[phartman]

What is the cause of the shaft to break in the first place? Are top loaders prone to this failure?

And not to argue, but to learn...what is the risk immediately? The idler gear direction interferes with another cog, gets in a bind and breaks? What would cause the severe damage?

The problem will get fixed, but I am trying to learn something about transmissions here, i.e., how the gears interact.

[RalphM]

Something like this could happen, only on a smaller scale. This occurred from a piece of shift fork broken off and getting between gears. So yes, it can get bad!

[RalphM]

I would not drive it till you figure out what is going on in the box. There is not much room to spare inside the case.
Forgot to ask, is this the original 3 speed? Or like most, upgraded to a 39ish tranny?

[phartman]

Originally Posted by RalphM

Forgot to ask, is this the original 3 speed? Or like most, upgraded to a 39ish tranny?

It is not the original. It is a floor shift 3-speed circa 1948 or so.

And I distinctly remember when the piece let go...I was driving down the road about 50mph and not horsing it around. There was a snap.

Here is the piece that came out of the fluid when I changed it:

[phartman]

Originally Posted by RalphM

Something like this could happen, only on a smaller scale. So yes, it can get bad!

i see a rebuilt transmission in my future.

[Kurt in NJ]

piece gets caught between gears---locks up rear wheels at speed, trans case splits in 1/2, car spins into traffic while it is rolling 3 times

[RalphM]

Looks like a part of a bearing. Input shaft to main shaft possibly?

[cmbrucew]

Looks like the pin that locates the shifter lever to the tower.
Bruce

[Ggmac]

Could just be the pin that^ was talking about or it could be a bearing . Park it before it parks you !
These are like modern cars , get a shop manual and look at the frequency for checking and replacing fluids , brakes etc . Anytime something odd happens DONT keep driving , something on the car is talking to you , saying STOP , HELP ME !

[Mart]

I agree, that is probably a shift lever alignment dowel.

It is not part of the shaft you pictured. The dowel may have been lost years ago and has been in the bottom of the trans. Remove the trans cover, take the shifter tower off and have a real good look inside with a flashlight. Drain the oil so you can inspect all the gears properly.

If all looks good it is probably ok.

The input and output bearings are ball bearings, so that is not a roller out of a bearing.

Have you stripped and inspected your front wheel bearings?

What, do you think went "snap"?

Maybe that piece got picked up and flung around.

Mart.

[JSeery]

The pin, bearing, whatever, looks to have a lot of pitting. I would be concerned about that as well. Has the transmission had water in it? What is the cause of the pitting?

[phartman]

Originally Posted by Mart

I agree, that is probably a shift lever alignment dowel.

What, do you think went "snap"?

Maybe that piece got picked up and flung around.

Mart.

Mart, that is an interesting theory. Maybe what I heard was the pin falling out and kicking around inside the gearbox.

The gear roar I hear is far worse in the winter, almost inaudible in summer; and the warmer the weather, the less the noise. In winter, the noise is greatest when the fluids are cold, but taper off as the transmission heats up. I am following the Ford Service Manual recommendation on transmission fluid- the heavy weight (straight 145 is the heaviest I could source) as long as temperatures are above 32 degrees. That change additionally helped the noise.

I will pull the top cover off the transmission and have a look around. Thanks for the help here.

Oh, and the wheel bearings seem fine. They have less than 5,000 miles on them. The pulsing I felt is unrelated to the front wheels.

[phartman]

Originally Posted by JSeery

The pin, bearing, whatever, looks to have a lot of pitting. I would be concerned about that as well. Has the transmission had water in it? What is the cause of the pitting?

The transmission has never had water in it that I am aware, but we live in a humid environment. It might have sat for long periods of time somewhere during its life when it was not used or lubed.

Not much way of knowing, but pulling the shift cover off and looking around inside the case might reveal all kinds of other issues. We'll just have to see.

[Mart]

I will mention something that happened to me. My roadster had a terrible vibration/noise that was road speed related. I ruled out everything on the motor/input side of the gearbox side of things and was preparing to pull the motor and gearbox and tear down the gearbox. I was on a test drive trying to locate the noise, and when it kicked in I was reaching for the ignition switch to kill the motor so I could rule that out, and accidentally touched the dash near the speedo. The speedo was vibrating at the exact frequency of the horrible noise.

I disconnected the speedo cable and hey presto the noise stopped immediately. The speedo must have a dry bearing or something, I have never taken it out to investigate.

It's a thousand to one chance that this is the problem in your case, but an easy one to check and rule out.

Mart.

[phartman]

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Originally Posted by Mart

The speedo was vibrating at the exact frequency of the horrible noise.

I disconnected the speedo cable and hey presto the noise stopped immediately. The speedo must have a dry bearing or something, I have never taken it out to investigate.

Mart.

Mart, every winter on the very coldest days I experience this very vibration you mention. It sounds like marbles rolling around in the gearbox. You'd think the mainshaft from the transmission is coming up through the floorboard at any moment. Yes, we've identified that sound and realize it comes from the cable.

Weird. I never would have guessed anybody would believe me if I had mentioned thinking the speedo cable was the culprit. Thanks for restoring my confidence.

This other noise is new. It has something to do with a gear in the box- I'll figure it out. Thank you for all your guidance here.

Pete

[RalphM]

If you do end up pulling the transmission for repair, or not, be a good idea to get Mac Van Pelts early Ford transmission book. It has a wealth of information on these transmissions.