The Ford Barn

Marshall V. Daut · 03-17-2021, 11:26 AM

I searched through the archives here to find an answer to my 1932 clutch questions, but nothing was a direct help. Lots of horror stories that are scaring me, though! As some readers here may recall, I am not a V-8 person, only Models A and T since 1966. A friend has a very nice 1932 Coupe that he is selling, but it has a bad shudder when the clutch pedal is let out. Motor mounts look good, as some past postings suggested could be contributing to the chatter. I think we need to look at the clutch and disk, which of course means removal of some kind.
I just examined the car and have a couple questions. Please refer to the accompanying photos. The cross member under the rear of transmission appears to be blocking any rear removal of the tranny. The oil pan extends to the transmission. Does this mean the engine has to come out in order to replace the clutch and parts? If the transmission CAN be removed via the rear axle, how does it come back far enough to be pulled out? That crossmember does not appear to be friendly to being removed. Is it supposed to be removed in order to pull the transmission?
A secondary issue is the brake system, which has been converted to hydraulic. Once again, not my area of expertise. I understand these brakes should still be mechanical with brake rods. Well, they're not. The front wheels have virtually no resistance when I spun them on jack stands. They may STILL be spinning! Obviously, an adjustment is required. Since these are not 1932 mechanical brakes, what year are the backing plates so that I can look up adjusting procedures?
Thanks for helping an antique Ford fan, who is clueless about 1932+ Fords.
Marshall

V8COOPMAN · 03-17-2021, 12:01 PM

.

Those are '39-'41 brakes, with upper AND lower adjustments at each wheel.

The '32 center crossmember DOES NOT come out....hence, trans will NOT be moving rearward. DD

deuce lover · 03-17-2021, 12:26 PM

As DD says. Gotta pull the engine.On the brakes try the upper bolt first .It works a cam that moves the brake shoe.

rockfla · 03-17-2021, 12:42 PM

Just adjusted the brakes on my 39 Mercury, a 3/4 OFFSET box wrench works best in conjunction with a medium sized adjustable as the center pin of the adjuster is TOO small of a box wrench to most likely give you enough leverage to turn the adjuster!!!! ALSO you "may want to squirt a little WD40 (or lubricant of choice) around the upper adjuster/eccentric as those tend to get "crusty" and hard to turn!!!! Some pre lubricating will also help!!!!

DavidG · 03-17-2021, 01:18 PM

With the closed center cross member of '32 chassis frames there is only one way to access the transmission and clutch and that is to remove the engine/transmission assembly as unit forward which entails removing the hood and radiator at a minimum.

1931 flamingo · 03-17-2021, 02:46 PM

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YUP, the engine has to be pulled along with the tranny. When I had my 32 coupe (55 Olds engine) I could remove the engine and tranny in about an hour, I got good at it.
Paul in CT

Mart · 03-17-2021, 03:27 PM

It's all been said, but I wondered why the vehicle is running a split wishbone when a stock one would (probably) work.
As he has wire wheels on 40 - 48 drums/hubs, make sure there is a spacer under the centre of the wheel. The wires are not designed to sit on a flat surface.

Can I just add t6hat you've come to the right place. You're amongst friends here. Please illustrate any questions with lots of photos and we will do our best to help.

For info he has 37-40 type spindles too. (roundback). Also the gearbox casing looks to be a later type.

Edit: Ignore above re spindles. They are squareback as stated below.

Just noticed tube shock direct to axle web.

Ggmac · 03-17-2021, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

I searched through the archives here to find an answer to my 1932 clutch questions, but nothing was a direct help. Lots of horror stories that are scaring me, though! As some readers here may recall, I am not a V-8 person, only Models A and T since 1966. A friend has a very nice 1932 Coupe that he is selling, but it has a bad shudder when the clutch pedal is let out. Motor mounts look good, as some past postings suggested could be contributing to the chatter. I think we need to look at the clutch and disk, which of course means removal of some kind.
I just examined the car and have a couple questions. Please refer to the accompanying photos. The cross member under the rear of transmission appears to be blocking any rear removal of the tranny. The oil pan extends to the transmission. Does this mean the engine has to come out in order to replace the clutch and parts? If the transmission CAN be removed via the rear axle, how does it come back far enough to be pulled out? That crossmember does not appear to be friendly to being removed. Is it supposed to be removed in order to pull the transmission?
A secondary issue is the brake system, which has been converted to hydraulic. Once again, not my area of expertise. I understand these brakes should still be mechanical with brake rods. Well, they're not. The front wheels have virtually no resistance when I spun them on jack stands. They may STILL be spinning! Obviously, an adjustment is required. Since these are not 1932 mechanical brakes, what year are the backing plates so that I can look up adjusting procedures?
Thanks for helping an antique Ford fan, who is clueless about 1932+ Fords.
Marshall

1942-48 spindles with a upper hoop for connecting to the box . Im not sure the axle is 32 or not . If the wishbones were split it may be a different axle . Would like to see pics of the complete front set up and motor mounts .

deuce lover · 03-17-2021, 05:01 PM

Axle is '32

V8COOPMAN · 03-17-2021, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ggmac

1942-48 spindles with a upper hoop for connecting to the box . Im not sure the axle is 32 or not . If the wishbones were split it may be a different axle . Would like to see pics of the complete front set up and motor mounts .

As noted elsewhere.....no mistaking a '32 axle! DD

GaryU. · 03-17-2021, 07:00 PM

As long as your posting photos, how about a few of the rest of that '32? The guys on our side of the forum will steer you right on any and all questions you might have.

V8COOPMAN · 03-17-2021, 07:25 PM

.

I'd bet two-bits that your '32 turns MORE sharply to the LEFT than it does to the RIGHT.....YES/NO? DD

Charlie Stephens · 03-17-2021, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

I searched through the archives here to find an answer to my 1932 clutch questions, but nothing was a direct help. Lots of horror stories that are scaring me, though! As some readers here may recall, I am not a V-8 person, only Models A and T since 1966. A friend has a very nice 1932 Coupe that he is selling, but it has a bad shudder when the clutch pedal is let out. Motor mounts look good, as some past postings suggested could be contributing to the chatter. I think we need to look at the clutch and disk, which of course means removal of some kind.
I just examined the car and have a couple questions. Please refer to the accompanying photos. The cross member under the rear of transmission appears to be blocking any rear removal of the tranny. The oil pan extends to the transmission. Does this mean the engine has to come out in order to replace the clutch and parts? If the transmission CAN be removed via the rear axle, how does it come back far enough to be pulled out? That crossmember does not appear to be friendly to being removed. Is it supposed to be removed in order to pull the transmission?
A secondary issue is the brake system, which has been converted to hydraulic. Once again, not my area of expertise. I understand these brakes should still be mechanical with brake rods. Well, they're not. The front wheels have virtually no resistance when I spun them on jack stands. They may STILL be spinning! Obviously, an adjustment is required. Since these are not 1932 mechanical brakes, what year are the backing plates so that I can look up adjusting procedures?
Thanks for helping an antique Ford fan, who is clueless about 1932+ Fords.
Marshall

Does the engine have the anti-chatter rods attached? How about a photo of them?

Charlie Stephens

Marshall V. Daut · 03-17-2021, 08:20 PM

Thanks for the replies so far and moral support. Good reading and very informative. I will try to get more photos in the next couple days. I have not personally driven the car, so I don't know about the lock-to-lock steering difference. I'll see if I can duplicate that on jack stands. Is there a reason you ask, V8COOPMAN? Do you see something amiss in that area?
The owner tells me the clutch chatters when he lets out the pedal. From my Model A experience, that usually points to a bad disk or one without the caged springs. Since the engine apparently has to come out in order to do a clutch job (GREAT DESIGN THERE, HENRY!!!), that ain't going to happen in this case. Way too invasive for me in unfamiliar territory with a $65,000 Coupe that isn't even mine!
While underneath the car examining the back of the transmission, I noticed two 5/16" bolts each on either side of the transmission tail piece that go through the back of the cross member and have nuts below. They are loose and flopping around. I can't see any purpose for these bolts that do nothing other than go through the rear of that cross member. Huh??? I assume something is missing that these bolts are supposed to secure. Are these bolts for the anti-chatter rods mentioned by Charlie? Or where should these rods be if not there? What do they look like and where do they attach? If they are missing, perhaps that's why the clutch chatters? There must be SOME reason for these loose bolts to be there!?! I have no manuals for early V8 cars, so I can't compare photos with what's here and what isn't.
While the car is jacked up, I'll remove one wheel and check for the required adapter spacer. And if there aren't any? Will this stress the lug studs to the point of snapping or throw off the centering of the wheel vis-a-vis the drum?
Marshall, V8 dunce

Marshall V. Daut · 03-17-2021, 09:04 PM

I found a couple pictures on the Internet of the 1932 clutch anti-chatter rods. The spacing for the two mounting holes seems to match those loose bolts on the back of the crossmember of my friend's Coupe. I'll check tomorrow. If these are in fact the missing animals, to what do the front threaded parts connect? Some kind of adjustable eye-clevis?
Marshall

tubman · 03-17-2021, 09:49 PM

There should be holes on either side of the bell housing cast into the back of the block to accept the threaded end of the rod. Once the rods are mounted and inserted into those holes, nuts secure them and should be tightened enough to take up the slack caused by the mounting system on early flatheads.

I think you have found your friends problem.

Marshall V. Daut · 03-17-2021, 10:09 PM

Ah, ha! Thank you, "tubman". Although I did find photos of the rods on the Internet, I couldn't find any photos or drawings showing how they are mounted. I get the impression from reading past postings on various discussion forums that some owners think the rods are good, others don't think they work or aren't worth the effort/cost. Were these anti-chatter rods standard in 1932 or are they aftermarket "hot rod" items? Photos? Drawings?
I see most of the ones on the Internet have been long sold. SOMEBODY must believe in them! Are these rods offered new by vendors and if so, can a "kit" be purchased with the mounting ends included? Clearly, we have nothing except the four 5/16" bolts and nuts in the crossmember.

I don't have any V8 catalogs to browse through.
Marshall

DavidG · 03-17-2021, 11:22 PM

The engine steady (or anti-chatter) rods in your photos are for a '32 four-cylinder engine. The V8 version is shorter from the shoulder near the front to the end of the threads, otherwise they are identical. They were standard equipment on all '32 passenger cars and commercial vehicles, but not big trucks.

Marshall V. Daut · 03-18-2021, 12:03 AM

Well, it looks as if I will be advertising for these rods and brackets. Judging by past classified ads, they don't last long before being purchased. A ton of them must have been thrown away over the years.

Marshall

By the way, what length do I need to request?

V8COOPMAN · 03-18-2021, 02:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

I found a couple pictures on the Internet of the 1932 clutch anti-chatter rods. The spacing for the two mounting holes seems to match those loose bolts on the back of the crossmember of my friend's Coupe. I'll check tomorrow. If these are in fact the missing animals, to what do the front threaded parts connect? Some kind of adjustable eye-clevis?
Marshall

Marshall.....The bare block sitting on it's rear in the first pic is an actual '32 block, if that is what you have. Nevertheless, the two holes at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock on the block closest to the concrete floor at the flywheel area are the two holes that the rods mount through from the rear. The second picture is of a somewhat later chassis, and the REAR end of the rods attach to the chassis differently than a '32, but you can see how the rods go thru those same holes as I pointed-out in pic #1.

You asked farther up above WHY I inquired about the left/right turn. On stock '32-'34 front, left spindles, the steering arm which the DRAG LINK attaches to is NOT directly centered in line with, and above the front axle, as seen in picture #3 below. The ball (drag link pivot point) is slightly AHEAD of the axle center line when the steering box is 'centered'. Those aftermarket steering arms (which actually form a hoop) like the one in your 'BRAKE' picture, CENTERS the drag link pivot point directly over the axle when the steering box is 'centered'. Picture #4 shows another angle. The simple GEOMETRY has been slightly altered with that aftermarket arm such that as when the drag link pulls the arm AFT during a RIGHT turn, and because it is already THEORETICALLY farther rearward than it should be BEFORE it begins to move, SOME travel will be limited. For the same reasons, when attempting a LEFT turn, the steering box will impart a little extra travel forward, likely making your 'lefties' a little tighter than your 'righties'. Other than that, about a bazillion of those aftermarket arms have been used the past 80+ years or so, and most folks likely won't even notice the difference. Hope some of this helps you!

By the way, I would contact Michael Driskell at 3rd Gen Automotive in McMinnville, Tennessee about getting the PROPER rods. He knows '32s, and will lead you in the right direction. Ask for Michael! He is a regular here on the 'Barn! His web site below. DD

https://thirdgenauto.com/

........

V8COOPMAN · 03-18-2021, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

I have not personally driven the car, so I don't know about the lock-to-lock steering difference. I'll see if I can duplicate that on jack stands. Is there a reason you ask, V8COOPMAN? Do you see something amiss in that area?

While the car is jacked up, I'll remove one wheel and check for the required adapter spacer. And if there aren't any? Will this stress the lug studs to the point of snapping or throw off the centering of the wheel vis-a-vis the drum?
Marshall, V8 dunce

First question: SEE MY ANSWER in post #20!

Not so much stressing the studs as the fact that the lug holes in the wheels will flex (un-supported) and the nut will cause the perimeters of the holes to crack, and the nut seats in each hole will be wallered-away. It gets ugly pretty QUICK! DD

Marshall V. Daut · 03-18-2021, 08:16 AM

Are these adapter rings available from vendors, should they be missing from this car? Is "adapter ring" even the correct terminology for this part? Would it be a Dennis Carpenter item?
Marshall

richard crow · 03-18-2021, 08:58 AM

if you want to fix it remove eng you can leave the trans. in the car. remove clutch assembly & send to fort wayne clutch. now inspect the flywheel if it has cracks take it to a mechine shop & have it resurfaced .also check the shaft in the transmission that the throw out fork is attached to check the bushings at each end of the shaft if they are worne they will have to be replaced . also check the moter mounts. the rods that people call anti chatter rods are not for clutch chatter they are stay rods there perpose is to hold the eng in place because you have a torque tube drive other wise all the driving force is put on the moter mounts. our shop does about twenty ford clutches a year if you use any of the china junk you will have trouble. ps are our customers are always happy with the relusets

JSeery · 03-18-2021, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

Are these adapter rings available from vendors, should they be missing from this car? Is "adapter ring" even the correct terminology for this part? Would it be a Dennis Carpenter item?
Marshall

Yes. I think it is a Model A piston ring that was used ones up on a time!

Mart · 03-18-2021, 09:13 AM

^^ the piston ring may be used in adapting the hydraulic backing plates to the 32 spindles, but not relevant in this case as the car has later spindles.

The spacer for wire wheels on 40s brakes looks like the one in this link.

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speed...port,5846.html

JSeery · 03-18-2021, 09:18 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mart

^^ the piston ring may be used in adapting the hydraulic backing plates to the 32 spindles, but not relevant in this case as the car has later spindles.

The spacer for wire wheels on 40s brakes looks like the one in this link.

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speed...port,5846.html

Thanks for the correction Mart! I WAS thinking of the original spindles.

DavidG · 03-18-2021, 10:46 AM

My experience with more than a few '32s is that you cannot remove either a four-cylinder or V8 engine and leave the transmission attached to the dead-end center cross member.

V8COOPMAN · 03-18-2021, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidG

My experience with more than a few '32s is that you cannot remove either a four-cylinder or V8 engine and leave the transmission attached to the dead-end center cross member.

Why couldn't you do just that ......IF you support the front of the TRANSMISSION via a jack, or some other supportive device? DD

Marshall V. Daut · 03-18-2021, 12:32 PM

So, are you all saying because of the later spindles on this '32 Coupe, this spacer ring is not needed in our case with the present wheels?
Marshall

DavidG · 03-18-2021, 12:44 PM

DD,

It's the lack of sufficient clearance at the back of the front cross member that prevent moving the engine far enough forward for the transmission input shaft to clear the back of the engine bell housing and oil pan.

Marshall,

It's the later brake drums/hubs that dictate the need for spacers with '32-'35 wire wheels such as on the subject car, not the spindles.

V8COOPMAN · 03-18-2021, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidG

DD,
It's the lack of sufficient clearance at the back of the front cross member that prevent moving the engine far enough forward for the transmission input shaft to clear the back of the engine bell housing and oil pan.

David ....That makes it clear as mud....understand totally. And thank you! DD

DavidG · 03-18-2021, 03:20 PM

DD,

You're welcome!

richard crow · 03-19-2021, 01:47 PM

david g may you cant. but i have done it several times. twice in the last six mounts. are you removing the grill & radator

DavidG · 03-19-2021, 02:19 PM

Did you mean can't not cant? In any event, of course you remove the grill and radiator. What's the rest of your secret?

V8COOPMAN · 03-19-2021, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidG

Did you mean can't not cant? In any event, of course you remove the grill and radiator. What's the rest of your secret?

Kens 36 · 03-19-2021, 03:43 PM

Good one Coupe. Standing by....

DavidG · 03-19-2021, 06:04 PM

The challenge with the English language is its complexity, which along with scientific German, is the most complex of all languages. It is a very difficult language to learn as a second language. One reason for that complexity is the proximity of many words with slight differences in spelling, punctuation, or pronunciation that have entirely different meanings. The word 'cant' is a stand alone word that is many miles removed from the subject matter and bears no relation to 'cannot' or the contraction 'can't'. Look it up on Google or Wikipedia. I am not trying to make fun of richard crow, but rather trying to understand what he wrote.

V8COOPMAN · 03-19-2021, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidG

The challenge with the English language is its complexity, which along with scientific German, is the most complex of all languages. It is a very difficult language to learn as a second language. One reason for that complexity is the proximity of many words with slight differences in spelling, punctuation, or pronunciation that have entirely different meanings. The word 'cant' is a stand alone word that is many miles removed from the subject matter and bears no relation to 'cannot' or the contraction 'can't'. Look it up on Google or Wikipedia. I am not trying to make fun of richard crow, but rather trying to understand what he wrote.

David.....Who am I to interpret what idea Richard "MEANT" to convey, but with the obvious misspelling, incorrect punctuation, lack of punctuation, incomplete words, and who knows what else, this is MY interpretation of the idea he MAY have been trying to get across.

Richard's original quote:

"david g may you cant. but i have done it several times. twice in the last six mounts. are you removing the grill & radator"

MY interpretation:

DavidG....Maybe you can't remove an engine by itself (without the transmission being attached), but I have done it several times. I have actually done it twice in the past six months. Are you removing the grill and radiator?

By golly, this ol' English language ain't so tough after all. It doesn't take a whole lot of effort to at least get close! But what do I know? DD

........

DavidG · 03-19-2021, 06:55 PM

DD,

Evidently quite a bit!

FritzJr · 03-21-2021, 09:34 PM

Back to the original issue, I would certainly make sure that the "steady rods" were properly in place before deciding that the clutch needs to be replaced. There are some obvious modifications to this car, including the pedal arrangement. I would also make sure that all the pedal linkage is in proper order.

glennpm · 03-22-2021, 06:25 AM

Good tips as usual on Vanpelt's site.

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...oubleshoot.htm

glennpm · 03-22-2021, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

You asked farther up above WHY I inquired about the left/right turn. On stock '32-'34 front, left spindles, the steering arm which the DRAG LINK attaches to is NOT directly centered in line with, and above the front axle, as seen in picture #3 below. The ball (drag link pivot point) is slightly AHEAD of the axle center line when the steering box is 'centered'. Those aftermarket steering arms (which actually form a hoop) like the one in your 'BRAKE' picture, CENTERS the drag link pivot point directly over the axle when the steering box is 'centered'. Picture #4 shows another angle. The simple GEOMETRY has been slightly altered with that aftermarket arm such that as when the drag link pulls the arm AFT during a RIGHT turn, and because it is already THEORETICALLY farther rearward than it should be BEFORE it begins to move, SOME travel will be limited. For the same reasons, when attempting a LEFT turn, the steering box will impart a little extra travel forward, likely making your 'lefties' a little tighter than your 'righties'. Other than that, about a bazillion of those aftermarket arms have been used the past 80+ years or so, and most folks likely won't even notice the difference. Hope some of this helps you!

........

Another couple of my pictures regarding geometry.

Glenn

BoxCar Tom · 03-23-2021, 11:46 AM

And I thought both left and right turns were somewhat restricted by tire contact with the split wishbone

V8COOPMAN · 03-23-2021, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoxCar Tom

And I thought both left and right turns were somewhat restricted by tire contact with the split wishbone

Ah.....That Sir, introduces a whole new set of circumstances! It's good when some folks think outside the box. DD

BoxCar Tom · 03-23-2021, 07:01 PM

There's another front end geometry principal that is often ignored or forgotten. An imaginary lines drawn through the pivot points for the kingpins and the drag link ends should create a triangle that points at the exact center of the differential. The wheel base establishes the angle of the steering arms on the spindles. Later spindles from vehicles with longer wb should be adjusted to correct the angle when used on an earlier vehicle with shorter wb.

Mart · 03-23-2021, 07:34 PM

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^^ That's right, Tom, it's got a name. Ackermann steering geometry.

Mart.

03-17-2021, 01:18 PM	#5
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,101	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe With the closed center cross member of '32 chassis frames there is only one way to access the transmission and clutch and that is to remove the engine/transmission assembly as unit forward which entails removing the hood and radiator at a minimum.

03-17-2021, 02:46 PM	#6
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) YUP, the engine has to be pulled along with the tranny. When I had my 32 coupe (55 Olds engine) I could remove the engine and tranny in about an hour, I got good at it. Paul in CT

03-17-2021, 03:27 PM	#7
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,747	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe It's all been said, but I wondered why the vehicle is running a split wishbone when a stock one would (probably) work. As he has wire wheels on 40 - 48 drums/hubs, make sure there is a spacer under the centre of the wheel. The wires are not designed to sit on a flat surface. Can I just add t6hat you've come to the right place. You're amongst friends here. Please illustrate any questions with lots of photos and we will do our best to help. For info he has 37-40 type spindles too. (roundback). Also the gearbox casing looks to be a later type. Edit: Ignore above re spindles. They are squareback as stated below. Just noticed tube shock direct to axle web. Last edited by Mart; 03-17-2021 at 05:19 PM.

03-17-2021, 05:01 PM	#9
deuce lover Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern France Posts: 5,305	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe Axle is '32

03-17-2021, 07:00 PM	#11
GaryU. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Beaver Dam, Wisconsin Posts: 821	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe As long as your posting photos, how about a few of the rest of that '32? The guys on our side of the forum will steer you right on any and all questions you might have.

03-17-2021, 12:01 PM	#2
V8COOPMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON Posts: 11,107	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe . Those are '39-'41 brakes, with upper AND lower adjustments at each wheel. The '32 center crossmember DOES NOT come out....hence, trans will NOT be moving rearward. DD __________________ *Click Links Below* __ ▼ *'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN* *T5 W/TORQUE TUBE*

03-17-2021, 12:26 PM	#3
deuce lover Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern France Posts: 5,305	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe As DD says. Gotta pull the engine.On the brakes try the upper bolt first .It works a cam that moves the brake shoe.

03-17-2021, 12:42 PM	#4
rockfla Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Jacksonville FL Posts: 3,948	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe Just adjusted the brakes on my 39 Mercury, a 3/4 OFFSET box wrench works best in conjunction with a medium sized adjustable as the center pin of the adjuster is TOO small of a box wrench to most likely give you enough leverage to turn the adjuster!!!! ALSO you "may want to squirt a little WD40 (or lubricant of choice) around the upper adjuster/eccentric as those tend to get "crusty" and hard to turn!!!! Some pre lubricating will also help!!!!

03-17-2021, 07:25 PM	#12
V8COOPMAN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON Posts: 11,107	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe . I'd bet two-bits that your '32 turns MORE sharply to the LEFT than it does to the RIGHT.....YES/NO? DD __________________ *Click Links Below* __ ▼ *'35-'36 W/8BA & MECHANICAL FAN* *T5 W/TORQUE TUBE*

03-17-2021, 08:20 PM	#14
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,110	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe Thanks for the replies so far and moral support. Good reading and very informative. I will try to get more photos in the next couple days. I have not personally driven the car, so I don't know about the lock-to-lock steering difference. I'll see if I can duplicate that on jack stands. Is there a reason you ask, V8COOPMAN? Do you see something amiss in that area? The owner tells me the clutch chatters when he lets out the pedal. From my Model A experience, that usually points to a bad disk or one without the caged springs. Since the engine apparently has to come out in order to do a clutch job (GREAT DESIGN THERE, HENRY!!!), that ain't going to happen in this case. Way too invasive for me in unfamiliar territory with a $65,000 Coupe that isn't even mine! While underneath the car examining the back of the transmission, I noticed two 5/16" bolts each on either side of the transmission tail piece that go through the back of the cross member and have nuts below. They are loose and flopping around. I can't see any purpose for these bolts that do nothing other than go through the rear of that cross member. Huh??? I assume something is missing that these bolts are supposed to secure. Are these bolts for the anti-chatter rods mentioned by Charlie? Or where should these rods be if not there? What do they look like and where do they attach? If they are missing, perhaps that's why the clutch chatters? There must be SOME reason for these loose bolts to be there!?! I have no manuals for early V8 cars, so I can't compare photos with what's here and what isn't. While the car is jacked up, I'll remove one wheel and check for the required adapter spacer. And if there aren't any? Will this stress the lug studs to the point of snapping or throw off the centering of the wheel vis-a-vis the drum? Marshall, V8 dunce

03-17-2021, 09:49 PM	#16
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,312	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe There should be holes on either side of the bell housing cast into the back of the block to accept the threaded end of the rod. Once the rods are mounted and inserted into those holes, nuts secure them and should be tightened enough to take up the slack caused by the mounting system on early flatheads. I think you have found your friends problem.

03-17-2021, 10:09 PM	#17
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,110	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe Ah, ha! Thank you, "tubman". Although I did find photos of the rods on the Internet, I couldn't find any photos or drawings showing how they are mounted. I get the impression from reading past postings on various discussion forums that some owners think the rods are good, others don't think they work or aren't worth the effort/cost. Were these anti-chatter rods standard in 1932 or are they aftermarket "hot rod" items? Photos? Drawings? I see most of the ones on the Internet have been long sold. SOMEBODY must believe in them! Are these rods offered new by vendors and if so, can a "kit" be purchased with the mounting ends included? Clearly, we have nothing except the four 5/16" bolts and nuts in the crossmember. I don't have any V8 catalogs to browse through. Marshall

03-17-2021, 11:22 PM	#18
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,101	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe The engine steady (or anti-chatter) rods in your photos are for a '32 four-cylinder engine. The V8 version is shorter from the shoulder near the front to the end of the threads, otherwise they are identical. They were standard equipment on all '32 passenger cars and commercial vehicles, but not big trucks.

03-18-2021, 12:03 AM	#19
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,110	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe Well, it looks as if I will be advertising for these rods and brackets. Judging by past classified ads, they don't last long before being purchased. A ton of them must have been thrown away over the years. Marshall By the way, what length do I need to request?

03-18-2021, 08:16 AM	#22
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,110	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe Are these adapter rings available from vendors, should they be missing from this car? Is "adapter ring" even the correct terminology for this part? Would it be a Dennis Carpenter item? Marshall

03-18-2021, 08:58 AM	#23
richard crow Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,770	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe if you want to fix it remove eng you can leave the trans. in the car. remove clutch assembly & send to fort wayne clutch. now inspect the flywheel if it has cracks take it to a mechine shop & have it resurfaced .also check the shaft in the transmission that the throw out fork is attached to check the bushings at each end of the shaft if they are worne they will have to be replaced . also check the moter mounts. the rods that people call anti chatter rods are not for clutch chatter they are stay rods there perpose is to hold the eng in place because you have a torque tube drive other wise all the driving force is put on the moter mounts. our shop does about twenty ford clutches a year if you use any of the china junk you will have trouble. ps are our customers are always happy with the relusets

03-18-2021, 09:13 AM	#25
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,747	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe ^^ the piston ring may be used in adapting the hydraulic backing plates to the 32 spindles, but not relevant in this case as the car has later spindles. The spacer for wire wheels on 40s brakes looks like the one in this link. https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speed...port,5846.html

03-18-2021, 10:46 AM	#27
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,101	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe My experience with more than a few '32s is that you cannot remove either a four-cylinder or V8 engine and leave the transmission attached to the dead-end center cross member.

03-18-2021, 12:32 PM	#29
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,110	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe So, are you all saying because of the later spindles on this '32 Coupe, this spacer ring is not needed in our case with the present wheels? Marshall

03-18-2021, 12:44 PM	#30
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,101	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe DD, It's the lack of sufficient clearance at the back of the front cross member that prevent moving the engine far enough forward for the transmission input shaft to clear the back of the engine bell housing and oil pan. Marshall, It's the later brake drums/hubs that dictate the need for spacers with '32-'35 wire wheels such as on the subject car, not the spindles.

03-18-2021, 03:20 PM	#32
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,101	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe DD, You're welcome!

03-19-2021, 01:47 PM	#33
richard crow Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,770	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe david g may you cant. but i have done it several times. twice in the last six mounts. are you removing the grill & radator

03-19-2021, 02:19 PM	#34
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,101	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe Did you mean can't not cant? In any event, of course you remove the grill and radiator. What's the rest of your secret?

03-19-2021, 03:43 PM	#36
Kens 36 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 375	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe Good one Coupe. Standing by.... __________________ https://www.nirgv8.org

03-19-2021, 06:04 PM	#37
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,101	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe The challenge with the English language is its complexity, which along with scientific German, is the most complex of all languages. It is a very difficult language to learn as a second language. One reason for that complexity is the proximity of many words with slight differences in spelling, punctuation, or pronunciation that have entirely different meanings. The word 'cant' is a stand alone word that is many miles removed from the subject matter and bears no relation to 'cannot' or the contraction 'can't'. Look it up on Google or Wikipedia. I am not trying to make fun of richard crow, but rather trying to understand what he wrote.

03-19-2021, 06:55 PM	#39
DavidG Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: southeastern Michigan Posts: 10,101	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe DD, Evidently quite a bit!

03-21-2021, 09:34 PM	#40
FritzJr Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northern Neck, VA Posts: 131	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe Back to the original issue, I would certainly make sure that the "steady rods" were properly in place before deciding that the clutch needs to be replaced. There are some obvious modifications to this car, including the pedal arrangement. I would also make sure that all the pedal linkage is in proper order.

03-22-2021, 06:25 AM	#41
glennpm Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Wiscasset, Maine Posts: 1,981	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe Good tips as usual on Vanpelt's site. http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/f...oubleshoot.htm

03-23-2021, 11:46 AM	#43
BoxCar Tom Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Basking Ridge, NJ Posts: 589	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe And I thought both left and right turns were somewhat restricted by tire contact with the split wishbone

03-23-2021, 07:01 PM	#45
BoxCar Tom Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Basking Ridge, NJ Posts: 589	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe There's another front end geometry principal that is often ignored or forgotten. An imaginary lines drawn through the pivot points for the kingpins and the drag link ends should create a triangle that points at the exact center of the differential. The wheel base establishes the angle of the steering arms on the spindles. Later spindles from vehicles with longer wb should be adjusted to correct the angle when used on an earlier vehicle with shorter wb.

03-23-2021, 07:34 PM	#46
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,747	Re: Clutch replacement, 1932 Coupe Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) ^^ That's right, Tom, it's got a name. Ackermann steering geometry. Mart.