The Ford Barn

Hster · 11-15-2014, 05:43 PM

Paul,
I have the stock bulb type headlights. Some previous owner installed turn signals in the stock lights (cowl/tail lights). I not sure how he tied into the existing stock wiring, but the cowl lights are on whenever the lights are on. I think there is some issue in the connection that creates such a large draw. Driving the roads here through the woods even during the day headlights help to be seen especially with a dark car. Yes, the EVR is a hugh improvement and worth every penny. I am just leery of amping out the EVR.

Paul from Maine · 11-15-2014, 05:58 PM

I've run my EVR with the third brush at max for over four thousand miles with no problems yet! I replaced my generator brushes a year ago and noted no damage to the generator! I would be confident, but would look for a short or something in the turn signal wiring, as that seems to be an excessive amperage draw for that type of setup!

H. L. Chauvin · 11-15-2014, 09:16 PM

Hi Hster,

Per your reply #15, you will be very glad you called Mr. Regan.

This gentleman knows "his" voltage regulators, knows about the terrible new ammeters offered today, bad starter mounted fuses exposed to weather, & some of the cheap cut-off switches a few people rely on.

He is also a collector with 6 Model T's.

I had called him on a Saturday morning for a simple regulator question; however, he took the time to ask me to verify a few voltage & amp readings at the battery, generator, & ammeter with the old cut-out installed, and with & without the generator charging.

Then he asked me to call him on Sunday because he had to go to his son's or daughter's house on Saturday afternoon.

On Sunday, after his few more readings requested, he asked me to install the regulator after setting the third brush per his written "and" verbal instructions.

This regulator is still working in an outstanding manner.

Mr. Regan is so very much like so many other Model A owners we meet on Forums & in Clubs, & Model A Vendors who are always so willing to help others with Model A concerns.

Hster · 11-16-2014, 02:22 PM

H.L., I did talk to John Regan. You were correct in your description of him. However, by the time he had returned my call I had taken Tom's advice and installed it as per the written instructions, it works perfectly. I told John my concern about the high voltage and felt a bit foolish because it was a voltage regulator I was installing DUH! I was just concerned about there being some parameters as to the voltages it would function. John was indeed very helpful. I also told him about the hugh draw when the lights are on (stock bulbs). Obviously not normal and his suggestion was to check the wiring since the cowl lights are on with the headlights. He thought I should put in a new wiring harness and get it back to stock and the worry about the turn signal setup later. Their has been several issues with the previous owners work like reverse polarity on the coil, headlight wiring etc. so a new wiring harness will be in the works. John also said I could call him if I needed help with any electrical problems. Incredible! He is an amazing man he must really love what he does. It is a delight to know there a people in the world like him.
Thank you for the suggestion to contact him
Herb

Tinker · 11-16-2014, 10:39 PM

Being that I want to learn. Over clocking the generator and keeping the regulator set to an managable voltage output will help when extra amps are needed. Correct?

Mitch//pa · 11-16-2014, 10:46 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinker

Being that I want to learn. Over clocking the generator and keeping the regulator set to an managable voltage output will help when extra amps are needed. Correct?

here are the instuctions for the regulator being discussed. it goes over where to set the output of the 3rd brush etc
http://www.funprojects.com/pdf/10505R6.PDF

the regulator itself works electronically providing the amps needed for the load

Tinker · 11-16-2014, 10:52 PM

Amps are on a need only bases. So if you set your gen to output more volts/ hence amps at idle but was governed by a voltage regulator to keep things inline, would there be more amps at high demand?

Mike V. Florida · 11-16-2014, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hster

He thought I should put in a new wiring harness and get it back to stock and the worry about the turn signal setup later.

If you are going to install a new harness, may I suggest that you look for a harness that already has the directional wires in the harness. This way you can remove all the "stuff" the last guy installed (i'm sure he knew exactly where everything went) and get a nice clean install.

John S · 11-16-2014, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinker

Amps are on a need only bases. So if you set your gen to output more volts/ hence amps at idle but was governed by a voltage regulator to keep things inline, would there be more amps at high demand?

That's true. But the Fun Projects regulator is only good for 15 amps. When I put mine on I set the third brush for 10. That's enough to handle my stock lights.

Tinker · 11-16-2014, 11:33 PM

Thanks John. Sorry for the dumb question. So here's another. How is amperage set on a generator alone? With out load?

Tinker · 11-16-2014, 11:46 PM

Also... How many amps can a power gen effectively generate. 20? 30?

John S · 11-17-2014, 12:02 AM

The fact that a Model A generator doesn't have a fan limits how much power you can get out of it without it overheating. I'm not sure but I think an early powerhouse can hit over 20 amps. Tom W. will know the answer for sure.

Tinker · 11-17-2014, 12:07 AM

20 amps seems plenty in its intended design. Rpms being a nominal factory and the limitations of its components considered. Thank you.

Mike V. Florida · 11-17-2014, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John S

The fact that a Model A generator doesn't have a fan limits how much power you can get out of it without it overheating. I'm not sure but I think an early powerhouse can hit over 20 amps. Tom W. will know the answer for sure.

While I'm not Tom, the powerhouse generator has a safe maximum output of 15 amps, while the later long generator has 12 amps safe output.

Tinker · 11-17-2014, 12:33 AM

Mike at what rpm would that be at?

Tom Wesenberg · 11-17-2014, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinker

Mike at what rpm would that be at?

That would be about 1200 to 2000 generator RPM. The amps are determined by the load, and as Mike said, the powerhouse should be limited to about 15 amps continuous and the Autolite style about 12 amps safely. When you demand too much of the generator the commutator will overheat and throw solder and/or the windings will burn up.

The old Motor's Manuals, such as from the 30's, 40's and 50's have a lot of good generator information. They even tell me the Autolite number for my 1950 Champion generator.

Hster · 11-17-2014, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

If you are going to install a new harness, may I suggest that you look for a harness that already has the directional wires in the harness. This way you can remove all the "stuff" the last guy installed (i'm sure he knew exactly where everything went) and get a nice clean install.

Great suggestion I've ordered a turn signal harness.
Thanks

warrene · 03-26-2022, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hster

I have a "new to me" (~running) 30 Tudor that I have been trying to make reliable.
I have come across several problems that thanks to you Ford Barn Gurus have been easy to fix.

My latest problem happened when I want to install the Fun Project regulator.
When I was adjusting the third brush for the proper amperage I also checked the voltage. When the throttle was raised to show a charge I checked the voltage it was ~9 volts the lights were very bright and when I used the horn it screamed.

My question is what determines the generator VOLTAGE output, and how it can change?

The Model A is NOT some modern "needs to be perfect", "exact to a fraction" or any of this modern car crap, it has no computer, is basic electricity, treat is as such and forget all this 'perfect' nonsense.
The automatic cutout is made to control output, shove your third brush to full charge and forget it, this will barely handle your 50cp lights, but it will, more or less. Do that and just drive on and be happy, bulbs are made to handle 8 or even more volts, the brighter the lights the better.
I converted my regular generator into a 2-brush unit, I use the 8N Ford tractor regulator, mounted on firewall. This ends up same as your updated regulated cutout, control my voltage in a different way. I'm an electrical engineer.
Warrene

bavArian · 03-26-2022, 03:00 PM

I think he solved that problem sometime in the last 8 years. :P
Apart from that I assume that the bulbs will last noticeably shorter on higher voltage compared to "proper" 6 to 7 V.

That said my generator, with the 3rd brush all the way down, outputs just enough power for a small charge current when all lights are on. (running 32/50 cp bulbs and 2 tail lights)

11-15-2014, 05:43 PM	#21
Hster Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Bainbridge Island WA Posts: 71	Re: Generator Voltage Paul, I have the stock bulb type headlights. Some previous owner installed turn signals in the stock lights (cowl/tail lights). I not sure how he tied into the existing stock wiring, but the cowl lights are on whenever the lights are on. I think there is some issue in the connection that creates such a large draw. Driving the roads here through the woods even during the day headlights help to be seen especially with a dark car. Yes, the EVR is a hugh improvement and worth every penny. I am just leery of amping out the EVR.

11-15-2014, 05:58 PM	#22
Paul from Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oxford Hills, Maine Posts: 325	Re: Generator Voltage I've run my EVR with the third brush at max for over four thousand miles with no problems yet! I replaced my generator brushes a year ago and noted no damage to the generator! I would be confident, but would look for a short or something in the turn signal wiring, as that seems to be an excessive amperage draw for that type of setup!

11-15-2014, 09:16 PM	#23
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Generator Voltage Hi Hster, Per your reply #15, you will be very glad you called Mr. Regan. This gentleman knows "his" voltage regulators, knows about the terrible new ammeters offered today, bad starter mounted fuses exposed to weather, & some of the cheap cut-off switches a few people rely on. He is also a collector with 6 Model T's. I had called him on a Saturday morning for a simple regulator question; however, he took the time to ask me to verify a few voltage & amp readings at the battery, generator, & ammeter with the old cut-out installed, and with & without the generator charging. Then he asked me to call him on Sunday because he had to go to his son's or daughter's house on Saturday afternoon. On Sunday, after his few more readings requested, he asked me to install the regulator after setting the third brush per his written "and" verbal instructions. This regulator is still working in an outstanding manner. Mr. Regan is so very much like so many other Model A owners we meet on Forums & in Clubs, & Model A Vendors who are always so willing to help others with Model A concerns. Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 11-15-2014 at 09:18 PM. Reason: typo

11-16-2014, 02:22 PM	#24
Hster Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Bainbridge Island WA Posts: 71	Re: Generator Voltage H.L., I did talk to John Regan. You were correct in your description of him. However, by the time he had returned my call I had taken Tom's advice and installed it as per the written instructions, it works perfectly. I told John my concern about the high voltage and felt a bit foolish because it was a voltage regulator I was installing DUH! I was just concerned about there being some parameters as to the voltages it would function. John was indeed very helpful. I also told him about the hugh draw when the lights are on (stock bulbs). Obviously not normal and his suggestion was to check the wiring since the cowl lights are on with the headlights. He thought I should put in a new wiring harness and get it back to stock and the worry about the turn signal setup later. Their has been several issues with the previous owners work like reverse polarity on the coil, headlight wiring etc. so a new wiring harness will be in the works. John also said I could call him if I needed help with any electrical problems. Incredible! He is an amazing man he must really love what he does. It is a delight to know there a people in the world like him. Thank you for the suggestion to contact him Herb

11-16-2014, 10:39 PM	#25
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Generator Voltage Being that I want to learn. Over clocking the generator and keeping the regulator set to an managable voltage output will help when extra amps are needed. Correct?

11-16-2014, 10:52 PM	#27
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Generator Voltage Amps are on a need only bases. So if you set your gen to output more volts/ hence amps at idle but was governed by a voltage regulator to keep things inline, would there be more amps at high demand?

11-16-2014, 11:33 PM	#30
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Generator Voltage Thanks John. Sorry for the dumb question. So here's another. How is amperage set on a generator alone? With out load?

11-16-2014, 11:46 PM	#31
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Generator Voltage Also... How many amps can a power gen effectively generate. 20? 30?

11-17-2014, 12:02 AM	#32
John S Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Ellis County, Texas Posts: 337	Re: Generator Voltage The fact that a Model A generator doesn't have a fan limits how much power you can get out of it without it overheating. I'm not sure but I think an early powerhouse can hit over 20 amps. Tom W. will know the answer for sure. __________________ John _________________________________ http://www.dmafc.com/

11-17-2014, 12:07 AM	#33
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Generator Voltage 20 amps seems plenty in its intended design. Rpms being a nominal factory and the limitations of its components considered. Thank you.

11-17-2014, 12:33 AM	#35
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Generator Voltage Mike at what rpm would that be at?

03-26-2022, 03:00 PM	#39
bavArian Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Germany Posts: 215	Re: Generator Voltage I think he solved that problem sometime in the last 8 years. :P Apart from that I assume that the bulbs will last noticeably shorter on higher voltage compared to "proper" 6 to 7 V. That said my generator, with the 3rd brush all the way down, outputs just enough power for a small charge current when all lights are on. (running 32/50 cp bulbs and 2 tail lights)