Filter oil return through hollow bolt on pump stand

[Lawson Cox]

Thinking of adding oil filter on my pickup using a hollow fuel pump bolt (NOS genie Ford). Anyone have experience with this set up. Comments? Don't have one in oil pan and do not want to pull pan to install one. Thanks a-plenty. Lawson

[ford38v8]

Lawson, Ford moved that banjo bolt from the fuel pump stand to the distributor mount bolt in 1940, to address oil vapor from blowby. Whether it had any effect, I don't know, but if your return line is long enough, the front location might be better.

[Kube]

I agree with Alan.
Plus, the later design hose is readily available whereas the correct fitting and correct hose to the fuel pump stand are fairly scarce.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by Kube

I agree with Alan.
Plus, the later design hose is readily available whereas the correct fitting and correct hose to the fuel pump stand are fairly scarce.

Dammit Mike, I thought we had an agreement to disagree on everything. You cheated.

[JSeery]

I vote for the timing cover location.

[1939 pickup truck]

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Hello Lawson, or any of you other mis fits... ; < )
I'd like to do the same, so if you find a source for these hose ends one can order up.
Thank you, enjoy watching you play, nice or otherwise, from one who is "nucking futs"
"T"

[Lawson Cox]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Dammit Mike, I thought we had an agreement to disagree on everything. You cheated.

OK Alan and Kube. Where do I get the hose?

[TomTruck]

My 39 had the return through the fuel pump bolt. I never could keep it from leaking oil between the fuel pump stand and intake manifole.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by Lawson Cox

OK Alan and Kube. Where do I get the hose?

Don't ask me, Mike is the guy that said they're easily available!

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by TomTruck

My 39 had the return through the fuel pump bolt. I never could keep it from leaking oil between the fuel pump stand and intake manifole.

There ya go!

[JSeery]

I have never set one up that way, but think I remember someone saying they were using brake parts for the banjo fitting and bolt. Maybe a Barner that has installed one will add so better information.

[Mart]

^ That may have been me. I found that the stock V8 Pilot and other (possibly non US) location half way up the side of the pump stand base was squirting hot oil straight across the filler tube. I had a blowby problem and the hot oil was being ejected and making the problem a lot worse.

I plugged the factory hole in the side of the stand and made a banjo bolt from a drilled out 5/16 UNC bolt. I then used a metric brake banjo fitting (from a Skoda of all things) and found that a 1/8 NPT fitting screwed into it well enough to seal. There is no pressure at this joint, just a return. The existing return pipe was rerouted into the new banjo fitting. The metric fitting had a M10x 1mm pitch thread.

The new setup did not suffer from oil ejection from the filler as the oil enters the valve chamber outside of the baffle tube. As long as the two baffle tubes are in place and the manifold has a through hole, the system works well.

I'll dig out a photo and post it here.

Not saying it is best practice, but in my case it was preferable to a timing cover location because the oil filter is bulkhead mounted and all the pipework was already in that rearward location.

Mart.

Edit: I found the post and have pasted it in below:

Here's the latest.

There's a secondary aspect that I have been mulling over. My bypass filter feeds back to the engine at the fuel pump stand. I took the cap off last night and could see the oil flowing into the stand and running down the baffles. Imagine that happening at high revs, (more flow??) with lots of air trying to rush up past it, and it's bound to pick some up and carry it along in the air.

Probably another reason it was as bad as it was.

I reworked the oil return from the bypass filter this afternoon.
Check this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzP0u5L4_WE

You can't see the oil stream from the return, but you can see the wetness down there and the way the oil gets picked up as I rev it.

So I replaced the fuel pump stand for one without the (Ford original) return boss.

To allow the oil to be able to return I needed a route that would not require engine or sump removal. I hit on the fuel stand bosses - at least on this manifold they are through drilled into the valve chamber. Importantly they are outside, rather than inside the filler tube extension that goes straight down to the crankcase.

I made a special banjo bolt:


I'm really digging my little Myford lathe!

And utilised a handy brake banjo (salvaged from a Skoda (of all things) in the scrap yard ages ago)




And reworked the existing return pipe to suit.




The oil filler is now nice and dry:




This is after a good run around with plenty of wide open throttle and high rev usage.

The oil filter and return pipe were nice and hot - which to me indicates there is plenty of flow.

I'm now quietly confident that with the PCV in place and the modified oil filter return my oil ejection problems will be solved.

I get a kick out of coming up with solutions to problems - to me that's what Hot Rodding is all about.

Mart.

[Lawson Cox]

Neat. That's a lot of extra tubing on the return. Any special reason for that?

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by Lawson Cox

Neat. That's a lot of extra tubing on the return. Any special reason for that?

Two likely reasons, to relieve stress at the connecting points and cool the return oil.

[Mart]

The extra coils are to allow a bit of "give" in the system. the filter is on the firewall, there are no rubber sections in the pipe.

Mart.

[Bored&Stroked]

Cool - I've never seen such a setup . . . all the ones that I've had or taken off delivered their oil back to the pan.

I was pondering the fuel pump location and heat being transferred to the pump. Hopefully a setup like this doesn't cause more vapor-lock issues in hot climate areas. I think I'd go for the timing cover version if I had a choice and wanted to use the banjo style setup.

Thanks for sharing!

[flatheadmurre]

What about a large popnut in the pan as returnpoint ?
Yes you get chips in the pan that you have to deal with...but besides that...just the brain running away again...

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Mart

^ That may have been me. I found that the stock V8 Pilot and other (possibly non US) location half way up the side of the pump stand base was squirting hot oil straight across the filler tube. I had a blowby problem and the hot oil was being ejected and making the problem a lot worse.

I plugged the factory hole in the side of the stand and made a banjo bolt from a drilled out 5/16 UNC bolt. I then used a metric brake banjo fitting (from a Skoda of all things) and found that a 1/8 NPT fitting screwed into it well enough to seal. There is no pressure at this joint, just a return. The existing return pipe was rerouted into the new banjo fitting. The metric fitting had a M10x 1mm pitch thread.

The new setup did not suffer from oil ejection from the filler as the oil enters the valve chamber outside of the baffle tube. As long as the two baffle tubes are in place and the manifold has a through hole, the system works well.

I'll dig out a photo and post it here.

Not saying it is best practice, but in my case it was preferable to a timing cover location because the oil filter is bulkhead mounted and all the pipework was already in that rearward location.

Mart.

Edit: I found the post and have pasted it in below:

Here's the latest.

There's a secondary aspect that I have been mulling over. My bypass filter feeds back to the engine at the fuel pump stand. I took the cap off last night and could see the oil flowing into the stand and running down the baffles. Imagine that happening at high revs, (more flow??) with lots of air trying to rush up past it, and it's bound to pick some up and carry it along in the air.

Probably another reason it was as bad as it was.

I reworked the oil return from the bypass filter this afternoon.
Check this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzP0u5L4_WE

You can't see the oil stream from the return, but you can see the wetness down there and the way the oil gets picked up as I rev it.

So I replaced the fuel pump stand for one without the (Ford original) return boss.

To allow the oil to be able to return I needed a route that would not require engine or sump removal. I hit on the fuel stand bosses - at least on this manifold they are through drilled into the valve chamber. Importantly they are outside, rather than inside the filler tube extension that goes straight down to the crankcase.

I made a special banjo bolt:


I'm really digging my little Myford lathe!

And utilised a handy brake banjo (salvaged from a Skoda (of all things) in the scrap yard ages ago)




And reworked the existing return pipe to suit.




The oil filler is now nice and dry:




This is after a good run around with plenty of wide open throttle and high rev usage.

The oil filter and return pipe were nice and hot - which to me indicates there is plenty of flow.

I'm now quietly confident that with the PCV in place and the modified oil filter return my oil ejection problems will be solved.

I get a kick out of coming up with solutions to problems - to me that's what Hot Rodding is all about.

Mart.

Many mechanics back in 'the day" placed the return line at the base of the fuel pump stand as you have done. That is the reason Ford gave in a service letter in early 1940 as to why they changed the design to go to the timing gear cover. Apparently this method (yours) increased oil consumption dramatically.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Cool - I've never seen such a setup . . . all the ones that I've had or taken off delivered their oil back to the pan.

I was pondering the fuel pump location and heat being transferred to the pump. Hopefully a setup like this doesn't cause more vapor-lock issues in hot climate areas. I think I'd go for the timing cover version if I had a choice and wanted to use the banjo style setup.

Thanks for sharing!

Ford once again changed direction of the return once filters became standard equipment. I believe this was late in 1941. At that same time, Ford incorporated a return fitting to the oil pan for just this purpose.
Even later, perhaps 1942???, Ford made the oil return fitting integral of the dip stick boss. Same effect, less cost to produce...

[Don W/Norfolk]

Here is a Porche brake line fitting that just might be made to work:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXCELLENT-US...geh3yw&vxp=mtr

Looks like one might have to cut and paste on the link to get it to open.
dw