The Ford Barn

1931flathead · 07-03-2018, 07:14 PM

My friend has a 1991 Ford in his car has a carb on it trying to find a camshaft for it he wants to go roller but no one can tell us for sure what cam will work for his block cause in 1989 to 1999 they use the same blocks we were told but in 1993 they had roller lifters most of the block were set up for roller lifters
So can we fit a retro fit cam in it cause it is the one he only can find that he likes

Couple pictures of the blocks one a roller block one a none roller one
First one is the roller one

miker98038 · 07-03-2018, 08:56 PM

I’d get the numbers and date code off it and call the cam grinder. They should know. I know for some applications they make roller lifters to retrofit pre roller blocks.

1931flathead · 07-03-2018, 09:09 PM

The trouble is the block will take both but can't find the cam he wants in the stock roller cam just in the retro one we going to call comp cam on Thursday and find out

Jwawhite · 07-03-2018, 09:56 PM

I'd appreciate it if you could tell me where the block numbers are. I have. Perhaps, a 94 302.. I've tried a bit to find them but not good enough.

1931flathead · 07-03-2018, 11:43 PM

OK above the starter on the block

1931flathead · 07-03-2018, 11:52 PM

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Couple pictures

KULTULZ · 07-04-2018, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

I'd appreciate it if you could tell me where the block numbers are. I have. Perhaps, a 94 302.. I've tried a bit to find them but not good enough.

You should have asked ...

The Casting ID will be found @ the starter...

The Engine Assembly Date ID will (may) be found as the photo shows...

The Partial VIN Stamp (1968- ) will be found per photo...

The 302/5.0L has a long service history (1968-2001) so there are many differences to be aware of.

KULTULZ · 07-04-2018, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1931flathead

The trouble is the block will take both but can't find the cam he wants in the stock roller cam just in the retro one we going to call comp cam on Thursday and find out

The OEM roller setup is much different from aftermarket (aftermarket roller setup).

See the two drilled bosses in the lifter valley for the tappet spider?

1931flathead · 07-04-2018, 09:32 AM

Yes I know there is a difference between the two but no one can tell me if the aftermarket camshaft will fit in the roller block they all say up to 1985

56sedandelivery · 07-04-2018, 10:01 AM

Dumb question. Why would it not fit? Different cam bearing? Different lifter bores?

1931flathead · 07-04-2018, 10:16 AM

On the roller block they are not as tall for one thing

And on sbc the cam bearing journal are not the same I don't no about i ask summit and jegs and they could not answer my question for me they didn't know for sure

KULTULZ · 07-04-2018, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1931flathead

Yes I know there is a difference between the two but no one can tell me if the aftermarket camshaft will fit in the roller block they all say up to 1985

Let me see if I can understand your question...

An aftermarket cam will fit either, you just have to order the correct cam for the particular block you have.

Am I close?

ADDITIONAL COMMENT-

1985/1986 were the first years of the 5.0L roller specific blocks. Not all 5.0L went to roller right away although they may have used the updated block.

CLICK HERE- http://www.compcams.com/Pages/419/ca...aspx#HydRoller

1931flathead · 07-04-2018, 11:37 AM

You are right the 1985 302 Ho has roller cam
The question that I'm trying to find out is will a roller retro fit cam fit in a roller block or not

KULTULZ · 07-04-2018, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1931flathead

The question that I'm trying to find out is will a roller retro fit cam fit in a roller block

Yes, if you have a true 5.0L roller block, the FORD OEM (with correct valve-train) will fit the block.

Now remember, the 5.0L roller block had differing machining/protocols as determined by final designated engine assembly (roller engine vs non-roller engine). Maybe to help illustrate, there was a STD, HO and LT (light truck) 5.0L engine. You have to cover your butt there.

A roller block casting may come from machining with the spider hold-downs either roughly cast and/or not drilled/threaded. There were several design progressions.

Now there is a FORD OEM roller camshaft (and valve-train) and an aftermarket 302/5.0L retrofit cam kit.

Now can I confuse or what ...

...

KULTULZ · 07-04-2018, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1931flathead

My friend has a 1991 Ford in his car has a carb on it trying to find a camshaft for it he wants to go roller but no one can tell us for sure what cam will work for his block cause in 1989 to 1999 they use the same blocks we were told but in 1993 they had roller lifters most of the block were set up for roller lifters

So can we fit a retro fit cam in it cause it is the one he only can find that he likes

Quote:

Originally Posted by miker98038

I’d get the numbers and date code off it and call the cam grinder. They should know. I know for some applications they make roller lifters to retrofit pre roller blocks.

That is the answer in a nutshell...

I am having trouble understanding you use of the word retro-fit. That term can be used with either OEM or aftermarket cam ...

...

estout81 · 07-04-2018, 12:13 PM

The retrofit cam has a smaller base circle so the lifters can ride lower. The OEM cam has a larger base circle and the roller blocks have taller lifter bores. If you put a OEM roller cam in a non roller block the lifters will ride too high and dump oil pressure.

1931flathead · 07-04-2018, 12:22 PM

OK 1988 to 1991 had the boss for roller cams but came with a flat tappet cam my 1993 has a roller cam and i was told they are the same blocks

estout81 · 07-04-2018, 01:14 PM

If the block has the bosses for the hold down spider then it is a roller block. You can run a flat tappet cam in a roller block.

1931flathead · 07-04-2018, 01:44 PM

So why can't I run a retro fit cam in then if I can run a flat tappet one I should beable to run a retro one then

craig · 07-04-2018, 01:56 PM

You can't run rollers unless you can keep them from spinning in the lifter bores. The 2 bosses in the roller block are for attaching a tin "spider" device that keeps the lifter aligned, no spinning. The old block has no way to do this. You could run a retro fit roller set up if you can find a set of roller lifters with a connecting link bar between 2 lifters, that keeps the lifters from spinning. These were around on the aftermarket before Ford built their roller system. But, for the cost, just find another block, the junk yards are full of them at a much cheaper price than messing around with a retro deal.

07-03-2018, 08:56 PM	#2
miker98038 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Kent, WA. Tucson, AZ Posts: 1,414	Re: 302 Ford engine I’d get the numbers and date code off it and call the cam grinder. They should know. I know for some applications they make roller lifters to retrofit pre roller blocks.

07-03-2018, 09:09 PM	#3
1931flathead Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: central minn Posts: 1,025	Re: 302 Ford engine The trouble is the block will take both but can't find the cam he wants in the stock roller cam just in the retro one we going to call comp cam on Thursday and find out

07-03-2018, 09:56 PM	#4
Jwawhite Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Now on the Land of Sun City West, AZ Posts: 409	Re: 302 Ford engine I'd appreciate it if you could tell me where the block numbers are. I have. Perhaps, a 94 302.. I've tried a bit to find them but not good enough.

07-03-2018, 11:43 PM	#5
1931flathead Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: central minn Posts: 1,025	Re: 302 Ford engine OK above the starter on the block

07-04-2018, 09:32 AM	#9
1931flathead Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: central minn Posts: 1,025	Re: 302 Ford engine Yes I know there is a difference between the two but no one can tell me if the aftermarket camshaft will fit in the roller block they all say up to 1985

07-04-2018, 10:01 AM	#10
56sedandelivery Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Arkansas Posts: 528	Re: 302 Ford engine Dumb question. Why would it not fit? Different cam bearing? Different lifter bores?

07-04-2018, 10:16 AM	#11
1931flathead Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: central minn Posts: 1,025	Re: 302 Ford engine On the roller block they are not as tall for one thing And on sbc the cam bearing journal are not the same I don't no about i ask summit and jegs and they could not answer my question for me they didn't know for sure

07-04-2018, 11:37 AM	#13
1931flathead Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: central minn Posts: 1,025	Re: 302 Ford engine You are right the 1985 302 Ho has roller cam The question that I'm trying to find out is will a roller retro fit cam fit in a roller block or not Last edited by 1931flathead; 07-04-2018 at 11:51 AM.

07-04-2018, 12:13 PM	#16
estout81 BANNED Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Utica, Ohio Posts: 522	Re: 302 Ford engine The retrofit cam has a smaller base circle so the lifters can ride lower. The OEM cam has a larger base circle and the roller blocks have taller lifter bores. If you put a OEM roller cam in a non roller block the lifters will ride too high and dump oil pressure.

07-04-2018, 12:22 PM	#17
1931flathead Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: central minn Posts: 1,025	Re: 302 Ford engine OK 1988 to 1991 had the boss for roller cams but came with a flat tappet cam my 1993 has a roller cam and i was told they are the same blocks

07-04-2018, 01:14 PM	#18
estout81 BANNED Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Utica, Ohio Posts: 522	Re: 302 Ford engine If the block has the bosses for the hold down spider then it is a roller block. You can run a flat tappet cam in a roller block.

07-04-2018, 01:44 PM	#19
1931flathead Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: central minn Posts: 1,025	Re: 302 Ford engine So why can't I run a retro fit cam in then if I can run a flat tappet one I should beable to run a retro one then

07-04-2018, 01:56 PM	#20
craig Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: The Inland Empire of Washington State Posts: 368	Re: 302 Ford engine You can't run rollers unless you can keep them from spinning in the lifter bores. The 2 bosses in the roller block are for attaching a tin "spider" device that keeps the lifter aligned, no spinning. The old block has no way to do this. You could run a retro fit roller set up if you can find a set of roller lifters with a connecting link bar between 2 lifters, that keeps the lifters from spinning. These were around on the aftermarket before Ford built their roller system. But, for the cost, just find another block, the junk yards are full of them at a much cheaper price than messing around with a retro deal.