Spindle bushing reamer

[Gary Gregory]

Ok...Model A repair manual gives the reamer to be .812...one of the parts venders sells one thats .814. Will .814 work or is that a typo in thier catalog? Reason i ask is i bought a .814 reamer for $1 yesterday at a Flea Market and wondering if it would do the job.

[Gary Gregory]

Guess i should say King Pin instead of spindle.

[Kurt in NJ]

If you try to ream the reamer needs to be "piloted"---long enough that one end is in the other bushing to guide it, and the flutes of the reamer should not match the angle of any oil grooves---this happened on my car when I used a cheap kingpin reamer, it caused chatter, the kingpin fit very tight in the beginning, then got very loose in 10,000 miles.

The next kingpins I did on a Sunnen hone, they were still tight at 50,000 miles, and worked easy and smooth from the beginning.

Most kingpins I hone --except ones with 2 sizes, for those i have a set of reamers with adjustable pilot bushings, this way both bushings have the same centerline ---the pilot bushing is put in one bushing, it guides the reaming of the other bushing

Have you measured the diameter of your kingpin? , tried a test reaming? ---an old .814 reamer could cut a .812 hole if it is worn, or damaged, it could also cut larger ---xtra bushings don't cost much, give it a try.

[pat in Santa Cruz]

you need some clearance for the kingpin to be able to move. A .812 pin in .812 hole is too tight. However, I prefer the bushings be honed. Reamers cut unevenly, the high spots wear down quickly and you have loose pins too soon. Its worth the cost to have it honed to fit the pin by a machinist if you do not have access to a hone.

[V4F]

I use a brake hone . great job on mine .

[Purdy Swoft]

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The reamer in Brattons catalog is listed as .814 . I bought one in the early ninties and have used it on my stuff. I doubt that anybody within a hundred mile radius of me has a sunnen hone .

[louver lou]

I take my to our locate engine shop and they hone them for me. I think he charges me $10.00 for each spindle. I have used reamers in the past but not as nice as the shops hone job. I have never tried the brake hone method.

[columbiA]

Before I had a Sunnen pin hone machine,I used to use a Snap On adjustable reamer with a long pilot shafts& sleeve to keep both bushings aligned & it worked very well.I found that with the reamers that the vendors sell,the fit was too loose.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I've used our club's reamers with good results.

[Terry, NJ]

I hate reamers! Especially hand reamers! Reamers under power aren't too bad, but it's almost impossible to keep a hand reamer straight 100% of the time. And when it's not straight, it's gouging a low spot and as has been said this leads to hi and low spots, which wear out faster. Why they're even necessary is beyond me. Why can't they machine a bushing that's on size and press it into the bore and have it hold size? Why must they have an undersize hole in the first place? Yeah, I know about them collapsing, But it seems to me.... Dammit, I just remembered! I have an old manganese bronze prop shaft, 1" dia. Hmmmmm I wonder. Anyone ever try that? That Mang. Bronze is tough stuff. I think I'll try it.
Terry

[James Rogers]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

The reamer in Brattons catalog is listed as .814 . I bought one in the early ninties and have used it on my stuff. I doubt that anybody within a hundred mile radius of me has a sunnen hone .

Purdy, you would have to live 50 miles offshore to not be able to find a machine shop with a Sunnen or other hone system. I know of 6 or 7 just in a 10 mile radius of mine. Almost every machine shop HAS to have some kind of hone system, reamers just are not close enough in tolerance for precision work.

[Purdy Swoft]

The problem is that there are no automotive machine shops near by. Usually a person can't get anything done at a machine shop while they wait. If I took something to a machine shop in mobile it would mean two trips and a wait in between. Come to think of it there is a halfazz machine shop about 30 miles away. I took a block there to have it bored a few years ago, after waiting three months, I ended up takeing it to another place and waiting another three months. I'm not so sure that either one of them had a sunnen hone. I avoid them and get by the best that I can with my reamers.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Purdy, Jist tell'em that NECESSITY is the MOTHER of INVENTIONS/IMPROVISIONS! I remember when you spent a whole day, with a BIG file, surfacing your "AA" manifolds to PERFECTION! Bill W.

[Aok]

Since you have the reamer give it a try If you are not happy with the results you can always get it redone. My thinking would be if you are going to drive it locally it should be ok (kurt in post above got 10,000 miles with a hand reamer ) , If it is a touring car then get it done with the correct machine.

[RockHillWill]

I feel that the .814 reamer is the correct size, but I too, would be concerned a worn reamer. I use a Sunnen hone because I prefer to use original king pins if at all possible, and if you use the adjustable hone you can 'sneak up' on the bore diasmeter to be able to use an original kinpin that is .001 to .002 undersize. I am also of the opinion that a hone will hold its diameter/fit for a little longer than the rougher reamer.

Just a thought.

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Purdy, Jist tell'em that NECESSITY is the MOTHER of INVENTIONS/IMPROVISIONS! I remember when you spent a whole day, with a BIG file, surfacing your "AA" manifolds to PERFECTION! Bill W.

Yo Bill, There use to be a shop here that could plane manifolds and shave heads, it closed a few years ago. I did do my manifolds by hand with a large file. Usually its either the front or back ear of the exhaust manifold that kicks in from heat and over tightening. Automotive machine shops are few and far between in my area. Most shops no longer rebuild engines. I've reamed my spindles since Bratton started selling reamers.

[James Rogers]

I will never figure out why it takes some shops so long to get anything done. I have built 3 engines since last Wednesday. I just don't like to have customers badgering me to get things done so, I just do the work. The slow way is why so many shops go out of business, I guess. Just have to be work motivated.

[Reds34]

It's funny that you say that James, it took over 2 1/2 years to get the engine done for my '34. That didn't include bearings or pistons and now I'm still chasing an issue with it. When I get to doing the front end I will just go to a machine shop and have them hone the bushings.

Red

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Reds34

It's funny that you say that James, it took over 2 1/2 years to get the engine done for my '34. That didn't include bearings or pistons and now I'm still chasing an issue with it. When I get to doing the front end I will just go to a machine shop and have them hone the bushings.

Red

reds,
yep having them honed is the way to go. i think it cost me about 50.00 to have them installed and honed at the machine shop. it sure beats screwing around with a reamer.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

[QUOTE=James Rogers;714087]I will never figure out why it takes some shops so long to get anything done. The slow way is why so many shops go out of business, I guess.
James,
From my observations, slow is caused by:
1-Plain old inefficiency.
2-Too much B.S. & constant babbling about NOTHING!
3-Jobs that have HEAVY deposits already paid, are pushed aside for quick, cash jobs.
4-"Workers" who don't seem to know the meaning of the word, WORK!!

Fortunately, for me, I can practice inefficiency, B.S. all I want, sleep in 'til noon, chase old ladies, etc, and do it with a CLEAR conscience,----I'M RETIRED! Bill W.

[James Rogers]

Any of you who need things like this done should call me or Mitch or Brent and just send your parts and have them done. I can install your bushings and hone them in a couple of hours for about 50$ and send them back in a flat rate box. Whole job would be less than 100$.

We all have web sites that list contact info.

[Kurt in NJ]

For people that havn't seen one this is what a Sunnen hone looks like ---this is a "wet" version, there is a "dry" version that was marketed to garages for kingpins and wheel cylinders that is just the main part without the table/tank unit, they came with an assortment of mandrels for common kingpins and wheel cyls of the era, the baisic machine can be found for under 100$ sometimes, I bought my first one at a garage sale for less than a couple of Brattons reamers ---to buy all the mandrels that may not be as easy, some of them cost much more than a reamer for the fancy rebuildable ones.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Humble opinion:

I bought a spindle reamer from Bratton's about 15 years ago that works great every time if one takes the time to learn how to use it properly.

Also have a bushing driver set bought years ago from Harbor Freight that has sizes that work for driving out or installing all Model A bushings.

Also have a precise special distributor bushing reamer that works perfectly.

Paul Moller, in his Chapter 10 of Volume 1, "Model A Ford - Restoration & Maintenance Handbook", wrote a good article with photos on how to ream spindle bushings if one is interested in learning same.

If you feel that you cannot accurately work with hand tools, forget it -- like anything else, all hand tool work requires patience, hand & eye coordination & a certain amount dexterity.

In my opinion, after doing a few spindles & distributors, this is important when using reamers:

1. Get the correct spindle reamer or distributor reamer, U.S. made of tool steel, from a reliable source, as opposed getting a cheap foreign made reamer that is about as inaccurate as the Chinese the India versions of what they think are correct American shoe sizes & shirt sizes.

2. Place spindle in vise such that reamer is always vertical; hence, not adding weight & thus not allowing excess cutting to one side of the bushing.

3. Have a large oil can handy with lots of oil, (detergent or non-detergent), & "flood" the reamer with oil on every 360 degree revolution -- too much oil is never a problem.

4. Insure that the bushing holes are aligned with the spindle grease fittings.

5. Apply no downward force to reamer while carefully turning; i.e., allow the weight of the reamer to slowly & accurately cut the bushings with its own weight. Also place one hand directly over reamer to steady it at 90 degrees while turning the handle on the wrench.

6. "Never" turn reamer counter-clockwise -- "always" slowly turn "clockwise".

7. When finished, don't throw your precise reamer in your tool box beating up the cutting edges like many mechanics would do -- clean it, oil it, & wrap the reamer in an "oiled" cotton cloth, & store it in a piece of protective PVC pipe with caps on both ends -- it will be like new for the next set of bushings.

8. When finished reaming, thoroughly clean insides of bushings.

9. Lastly, get a straight wood dowel about 18" long & fit it into a power drill.

10. On the other end of the dowel, up to about 4" from the other end, cut about 1/16" deep & about 45 degree knife marks into the wood dowel on all sides, 4" long, allowing wood dowel slivers to protrude upwards.

11. Wrap wood dowel with enough four aught, (0000), steel wool such that the steel wool wrapped dowel can fit inside the bushings. The wood slivers will prevent the steel wool from slipping on the dowel.

12. Add oil to the steel wool, & turn the drill "ON" & polish the inside of the bushing for about 45 seconds until it shines like a mirror -- works for distributors also.

13. If one thinks the steel wool will cut too much, let it run for (3) hours & one will experience that the bushing will not get any larger with (0000) steel wool such that the king pin or distributor shaft will get loose -- gunsmiths use this technique often to improve & remove friction in bores of high quality shotguns.

FWIW: Have nothing against machine shop work of any kind today in 2013; but whether it involves, wood working, plastering, roof sheet metal work, or whatever, it just appears that fine craftsmanship & the care somehow slipped out of the window a few years ago -- if it works once, do it again.

[Purdy Swoft]

Not trying to argue or rub anyone the wrong way . I like and don't hesitate to use reamers. I think that Ford used reamers in the day. I was told years ago that if used properly, reamers cut a surface as smooth as glass, I've found this to be true.I use a hone on engine cylinder walls. I use an adjustable hone when fitting wrist pins because I can slip up on the fit by honing and test fitting untill I like the feel. Hones have fine grit that cuts the surface. Grit leaves fine grooves, this works good for cylinder walls for the rings to wear in an seat. If a reamer is used correctly it cuts smooth like a sharp knife. I've had good luck with Brattons reamers. I just do my stuff, I've got a few model A's and I would be lost without my reamers. I've reamed a few spindle bushing s for friends and neighbors for free. Most don't want to spend the money for reamers because they would only use them once. I've got a spindle bushing driver that Dave Wilton made and gave me back in the ninties. It only takes probably thirty minutes to remove, replace and ream the bushings.

[Gary Gregory]

Thanks guys. The reamer i found is a older USA made in very good shape.

[H. L. Chauvin]

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Hi Gary,

At $1.75 per bushing, as stated above, maybe just try to practice on a few -- you may be totally surprised what happens when one is brave enough to try something new.

For a vintage hand tool craftsmanship comparison, & for observing differences in human hand & eye coordination from a few years ago, just compare the delicate handwritings & signatures dated around 1915 -- then look at those of 2013.

Now, on the other hand, if you need very delicate surgery, & you are looking for a special surgeon who can work with delicate hand tools & instruments, don't ask to see your surgeon's 2013 handwriting before surgery -- please wait until after.

Hope this helps to try your reamer.

[Gary Gregory]

Thanks again. I have used a reamer on the spindle bushings on my Model T and everything seemed fine.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

[QUOTE=H. L. Chauvin;714466]

For a vintage hand tool craftsmanship comparison, & for observing differences in human hand & eye coordination from a few years ago, just compare the delicate handwritings & signatures dated around 1915 -- then look at those of 2013.

Now, on the other hand, if you need very delicate surgery, & you are looking for a special surgeon who can work with delicate hand tools & instruments, don't ask to see your surgeon's 2013 handwriting before surgery -- please wait until after.
H.L,
Went to Ol' Dr. Ghormley, our workman's comp Dr, to get stitched up, AGAIN! His hands shook with a Palsey of some sort With GREAT concentration, & absolute steadiness, he installed about 27 stitches, tied & snipped the thread & then his hands began their usual shaking!!!!ABSOLUTELY AMAZING!! Bill W.