Military flathead engines

[carguybill]

I have a '50 or '51 Ford Flathead engine that I suspect came out of a military vehicle because it has a tag on it stating that it was rebuilt at Fort something ( I don't remember for sure).


My question is are Military engines different from passenger car engines, and if so, in what way are they different? Also are there any ways to confirm that, in fact, what I have is really a military engine?


Thank you.

[51 MERC-CT]

The military did use standard, publicly available vehicles where the only difference was, being painted in military colors.

[alanwoodieman]

I have had three military trucks two 41's and a 51 no difference in engines. but the 51 had an 8ba and not an 8rt

[GB SISSON]

When I was a greenhorn, I gave a military engine away. It came off of a trailer mounted big DC welder that the PO got at the naval shipyard in Bremerton. I couldn't stop from overheating. When I saw it later, it had the heads off and was very clearly Factory Relieved. No signs of cracks. Now it's in his '40 sedan he got from his wife's uncle. There is no mistaking a ford factory relief job from one done with a die grinder. I took the all copper wound welder to the scrapyard soon after. Like I said, greenhorn.

[Newc]

Hi; I have a number of Canadian Ford military engines and they all have an extra oil port on the bell housing for the oil cooler supply. Some are relieved and some not. The C-59 engines were found in civilian production up thru '48. Apparently surplus castings from WW2. US engines were in staff cars/trucks and T-6 carriers. Newc To clairify: the Military engines would have 3 oil ports in the left rear location of the block. The regular 2 on the 'boss' and the 3rd to the right of that same 'boss', kind of 3/4" to the right of the 'boss'. Newc

[Ian NZ]

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Originally Posted by Newc

Hi; I have a number of Canadian Ford military engines and they all have an extra oil port on the bell housing for the oil cooler supply. Some are relieved and some not. The C-59 engines were found in civilian production up thru '48. Apparently surplus castings from WW2. US engines were in staff cars/trucks and T-6 carriers. Newc

So the Military Ford V8 24 stud engines were cast and made in Canada, and U.S.A, and the 21 stud surplus models were made in England apparently and fitted to the Pilot cars and Thames trucks after the war.

[Graeme / New Zealand]

I have a 99 block that is factory relieved and has a big boss with extra oil line holes where the oil sender srews in.

GB

[Brian]

and the 21 stud surplus models were made in England apparently and fitted to the Pilot cars and Thames trucks after the war.

Ian, I'm not so sure...the pilot blocks are a different casting to the 21 stud engines fitted into bren gun carriers etc. The pilot blocks have the freeze plugs at back of the cylinder banks that the earlier English 21 studders didn't have.

[rotorwrench]

From what I've read about Royal Enfield motorcycles, the UK did require the manufacturers of unused surplus made under wartime contract to take it back without payment. If this applied to Ford Dagenham then they may have ended up with surplus new engines but I would have no idea about how many or if they made changes to the 21-stud design from the Dearborn or Canadian produced 21-stud engines. Most Dagenham produced 21-stud engines also had the firing order casting marks on the cylinder heads but I don't know if this started with military production or civilian. Dagenham was certainly the last branch to manufacture the 21-stud 221 design block.

[Ian NZ]

I was told by a well known English Ford V8 club member that the military had a reserve of Ford V8 engines stored at two centres during the war which were owned by Ford and Ford Motor Co were told to remove these engines after the war and they were fitted into Dangenham built Ford Pilots and other production vehicles.

[Brian]

Ian, you may well be correct, I've read that info somewhere too, but I still maintain that every Pilot engine I've seen has the freeze plugs at back of each bank of cylinders. Every 21 stud bren gun carrier engine I've seen did not have that feature.

[Ian NZ]

Brian where were the bren carriers we had here or war surplus made. I know we had different models here.

[Brian]

Ian, Shoot 'bluebell' [a member on here] a pm. He is right into NZ bren carriers and will know the answer
edit; better to send him an email, I see he hasn't been on here for several months

[mark180]

In regard to the tag on the engine, The V8 Times had a story about Ford having an engine rebuilding program. You would exchange your motor with one Ford rebuilt to save on down time. The engine was even broken in just like the new ones.

[Ian NZ]

Brian I know of a guy in Tauranga restoring a Bren Gun Carrier which was built in the Railway Workshops in Wellington, I have supplied some parts to him for it, apparently they were built there during World War.

[Brian]

That's the guy! I too have assisted him with parts etc over the years. He'll know....

[Colin S]

I have recently bought an NOS 21 stud engine that maybe wartime production. The bell housing has the numbers 5 43 cast in(May 1943 ?)and it is numbered as 18F-7073499. The style of the block is that of the Pilot with freeze plugs in the rear of each bank. It is painted Canadian grey but I feel that it is of British origin. It has dual pulleys and a throttle linkage for a semi forward control (COE) Ford 7V truck that was made pre-war, during the war and for a time afterwards. In the 1950's and even into the late 1960's these new war surplus engine were sold in their crates for a little £25.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Colin S

I have recently bought an NOS 21 stud engine that maybe wartime production. The bell housing has the numbers 5 43 cast in(May 1943 ?)and it is numbered as 18F-7073499. The style of the block is that of the Pilot with freeze plugs in the rear of each bank. It is painted Canadian grey but I feel that it is of British origin. It has dual pulleys and a throttle linkage for a semi forward control (COE) Ford 7V truck that was made pre-war, during the war and for a time afterwards. In the 1950's and even into the late 1960's these new war surplus engine were sold in their crates for a little £25.

That "18F-7073499" number is interesting. You figure that "5 43" as possibly being a May 1943 casting date, and you might just be correct, because the last 1942 Ford (remember that '42 CIVILIAN production ended early) had a serial of "18-6925898", about 147,600 numbers earlier. It's certainly conceivable that Ford could have produced thousands of military vehicles, as well as military spares in that roughly one-year period. What's interesting is that a 21-stud would have a serial # that high, plus the fact that the "F" after the 18 in a Ford serial number was usually reserved to indicate a RIGHT-hand-steering vehicle.

And speaking of serial numbers, Ford of that era normally stamped that number into the blank pad at upper, front of transmission bell...NOT ON the engine itself. If that engine of yours had no transmission attached, WHERE on the engine did they stamp that serial number? DD

[Colin S]

The engine does not have a transmission attached and the number is on the top of the engine block, rear left hand side adjacent to the intake manifold where the fuel pump adapter fits. Cylinder heads are 77E-6050 with the firing order cast in and the intake manifold is 67-6520. Clutch is 11 inches. This engine may be for a RHD as it has a throttle bracket bolted to the back of the right side cylinder head. I am sure this is for the British 7V semi-forward control truck.

[Brian]

Sounds like a Thames truck engine