The Ford Barn

stewgee · 03-22-2019, 08:45 AM

Dumb question I'm sure but does anyone know how to replace the gas shutoff
valve under the dash on the 30 A without draining the fuel tank? It appears to me that is the only way. If someone has a different method let me know.
Thanks

chap52 · 03-22-2019, 09:24 AM

Gotta drain it or turn the car upside down. Then the cap will leak.
Close the valve, disconnect the fuel line at the carb, open the valve and drain it into a gas can. Easy job. Chap

daveymc29 · 03-22-2019, 09:29 AM

I have seen it done on the road and would never recommend it, There was gas running down the arms of the guy that did it and he must have lost at least a quart of gas onto his carpet, got in with a lit cigarette and drove the rest of the tour. Drain the tank and take your time. Gasoline burn rapidly and you heal slowly if at all.

katy · 03-22-2019, 09:36 AM

Drain most of the gas out and then jack the right hand side of the car up and put blocks or axle stands under it (for safety) before removing the valve.

rocket1 · 03-22-2019, 09:44 AM

Thinking about this if you filled the tank to the top of the neck and sealed the neck with a rubber plumbing cap possibly the gas would not drain out when removing the shut off valve,I tried this just now on a 2 gallon can with a small spout,it won't work,I guess you will have to drain the tank completely or jack up the passenger side to tip the tank.I would do this outside not in the garage.

whirnot · 03-22-2019, 11:05 AM

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Just drain the tank, it doesn't take that long.

Dutie · 03-22-2019, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chap52

Gotta drain it or turn the car upside down. Then the cap will leak.
Close the valve, disconnect the fuel line at the carb, open the valve and drain it into a gas can. Easy job. Chap

Good one Chap.....

duke36 · 03-22-2019, 01:08 PM

If you don't mind a non stock setup, what I used to do with inside shutoff valves was drain the fuel, remove the valve, install a common brass elbow in the tank bottom to receive the stock gas line/ fittings. Then measure for a 1/8" ball valve from a home supply store, etc.and remove the small line section out. Install compression fittings. I've never had a leak and fuss as common with the orig. valves. The ball valves should be good for ethanol gas.

stewgee · 03-22-2019, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chap52

Gotta drain it or turn the car upside down. Then the cap will leak.
Close the valve, disconnect the fuel line at the carb, open the valve and drain it into a gas can. Easy job. Chap

Chap turning the car upside down is out of the question. My wife won't come out to the shop to help. I'll take your advice and just drain the tank. Just didn't look forward to handling that much petrol.

stewgee · 03-22-2019, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whirnot

Just drain the tank, it doesn't take that long.

Yeah I know. Just don't like messing around with explosives.

GerryAllen · 03-22-2019, 10:04 PM

What I did was take the car for a nice drive. Let the fuel gauge get down to half way through the red 0 on the fuel gauge and 3/4 of a gallon.
No big deal, if you are worried about fumes etc do it out side.
Gerry Birch Bay WA

stewgee · 03-23-2019, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GerryAllen

What I did was take the car for a nice drive. Let the fuel gauge get down to half way through the red 0 on the fuel gauge and 3/4 of a gallon.
No big deal, if you are worried about fumes etc do it out side.
Gerry Birch Bay WA

I assumed that's the way it would have to be done. Just wanted to get any kind of constructive ideas of the different approaches you guys have taken. Thanks Gerry

Mike Peters · 03-23-2019, 08:45 AM

Funny coincidence. I just went through this. I drained the tank by disconnecting the INSIDE gas line at the shut off valve, switching ends, and it drains nicely into a 2 gallon gas can on the floorboards. Remove carpet or rubber mat first. If your shut off valve is plugged, like mine was, blow compressed air through it and gas will drain. Flush tank as best you can, use a magnet on a stick to pick up any loose rust. DON'T use a vacuum cleaner. Then install a pencil screen in the shutoff valve and reassemble.

Benson · 03-23-2019, 08:55 AM

After draining the tank remember that If a pencil filter is installed in the shutoff valve that several cups of gas remains in the tank.

Have bucket ready when you remove the shutoff valve to catch the gas if you have nice carpet installed!

30 Closed Cab PU · 03-23-2019, 09:13 AM

My alternate method - Use a cheap plastic/Rubbermaid/equivalent tub/storage tub/tote from Walmart, turn off the gas shutoff, drain the float bowl which drains the gas line from the sediment bowl, disconnect the line at the carb, check /clean the carb fuel line screen, connect a hose/vinyl tube to the gas line and turn on the gas valve. Turn on the radio, grab a soda/coffee/beer/chair and watch it drain into the tub. Once drained you can put the lid on the container to keep fumes down.

When removing the gas valve 1st put down a piece of plastic and catch pan under the shutoff on the floor board/carpet/mat, put some bunched up rags/paper towels in the pan to prevent splashing due to the what is left in the tank draining.

I prefer to do this outside. Remove the valve, this is a good time to either add or clean the valve pencil filter. Also a good to clean the bottom of the tank, . Some use a magnet to pickup rust, Again do outside.

Then siphon the gas in tub into a gas can/container to put back in the car. Installing the petcock I use plumbers white teflon tape on the shutoff threads.

Mike Peters · 03-23-2019, 09:34 AM

Benson: You are correct about pencil filters from vendors leaving some gas in the thank and then having to catch that last little bit whilst removing the shutoff valve.
Here's my home made pencil filters. Got the idea from another Model A buddy a couple years ago. You simply roll a piece of brass screen around the appropriate size drill bit to fit the intake side of the shutoff valve. Solder the seam and install in the shutoff. The tank will then drain the same as no pencil filter because there in no copper upright tube used as the commercial filters that you see in the catalogs. ALL the gas drains out and the screen stays put if you get the right diameter so it fits snugly in the shutoff. Gravity does the rest.

30 Closed Cab PU · 03-23-2019, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Peters

Benson: You are correct about pencil filters from vendors leaving some gas in the thank and then having to catch that last little bit whilst removing the shutoff valve.
Here's my home made pencil filters. Got the idea from another Model A buddy a couple years ago. You simply roll a piece of brass screen around the appropriate size drill bit to fit the intake side of the shutoff valve. Solder the seam and install in the shutoff. The tank will then drain the same as no pencil filter because there in no copper upright tube used as the commercial filters that you see in the catalogs. ALL the gas drains out and the screen stays put if you get the right diameter so it fits snugly in the shutoff. Gravity does the rest.

I believe the commercial pencil filters have the solid area between the shutoff and the screen area so rust/flakes have a small area to collect and not block the screen.

Synchro909 · 03-23-2019, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

I believe the commercial pencil filters have the solid area between the shutoff and the screen area so rust/flakes have a small area to collect and not block the screen.

I don't understand the thinking here. If rust flakes were to gather at the bottom of the tank, the home made filter would work just as well. The fuel would just enter the valve from above the rusty crap, just like with the commercial ones. Or am I missing something?

Mike Peters · 03-23-2019, 05:14 PM

I don't understand the thinking here. If rust flakes were to gather at the bottom of the tank, the home made filter would work just as well. The fuel would just enter the valve from above the rusty crap, just like with the commercial ones. Or am I missing something?
_________
Synchro: You are correct. Gas tank crap will pile up against the home made screen the same as the commercial version. Takes about 15 minutes to whip up a brass screen filter at home if you can solder.

30 Closed Cab PU · 03-23-2019, 08:07 PM

Hi Mike.

I do not have written proof. This is my logic based on what I have been told/observed. Am open to disagreement, being corrected.

When I was in high school I had a mid sixties Honda motorcycle where the petcock developed a leak. It had 3 positions - off, reserve, and on. So I drained the tank with the petcock in the reserve position expecting it to drain dry.. Then removed it and surprise, got about a cup or two more gas. Examining the petcock it had a very short tube sticking up into the tank for on, and a longer tube for reserve. I asked the motorcycle dealer/parts guy why the short tube for on, and he told me it was so that water/rust would not go into the petcock screen and plug the screen when bike when the gas was low. This bike had a screen similar to the gas bowl screen in tan A, but was inside/part of the petcock.

I know you have old tractors, my dad also collected old tractors. So I asked him about it. He told me some tractors have a depression at the bottom of the tank to collect water/crud, and they are bear to clean out. Additionally he told me some tractors the hole for the petcocks had a flange sticking up creating a place in the bottom of the tank that did not drain with the petcock removed for the same reason.

I have also noticed when draining my A tank and radiator, any rust/junk/water immediately quickly sinks to the bottom of the tub being drained into, and when agitated by moving/shaking the tub has a tendency to stay on the bottom instead of floating around suspended in the gas/coolant. Since it tends to stay at the bottom and if the filter has a bottom part of the screen that is solid, I assume there is less chance of plugging the screen.

Your point of only the bottom of the screen getting plugged with more screen available towards the top, to me would work better if the fashioned screen went higher than the commercial screens.

03-22-2019, 08:45 AM	#1
stewgee Member Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Locust Grove, OK Posts: 84	Gas shutoff valve Dumb question I'm sure but does anyone know how to replace the gas shutoff valve under the dash on the 30 A without draining the fuel tank? It appears to me that is the only way. If someone has a different method let me know. Thanks

03-22-2019, 09:24 AM	#2
chap52 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Marana Arizona Posts: 1,776	Re: Gas shutoff valve Gotta drain it or turn the car upside down. Then the cap will leak. Close the valve, disconnect the fuel line at the carb, open the valve and drain it into a gas can. Easy job. Chap

03-22-2019, 09:29 AM	#3
daveymc29 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Danville, CA Posts: 1,553	Re: Gas shutoff valve I have seen it done on the road and would never recommend it, There was gas running down the arms of the guy that did it and he must have lost at least a quart of gas onto his carpet, got in with a lit cigarette and drove the rest of the tour. Drain the tank and take your time. Gasoline burn rapidly and you heal slowly if at all.

03-22-2019, 09:36 AM	#4
katy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 5,042	Re: Gas shutoff valve Drain most of the gas out and then jack the right hand side of the car up and put blocks or axle stands under it (for safety) before removing the valve. __________________ If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!. Got my education out behind the barn!

03-22-2019, 09:44 AM	#5
rocket1 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Midland Park,N.J. Posts: 1,108	Re: Gas shutoff valve Thinking about this if you filled the tank to the top of the neck and sealed the neck with a rubber plumbing cap possibly the gas would not drain out when removing the shut off valve,I tried this just now on a 2 gallon can with a small spout,it won't work,I guess you will have to drain the tank completely or jack up the passenger side to tip the tank.I would do this outside not in the garage.

03-22-2019, 11:05 AM	#6
whirnot Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Bend Or. Posts: 1,056	Re: Gas shutoff valve Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Just drain the tank, it doesn't take that long. __________________ Bill Worden 1929 Roadster 1929 Briggs Town Sedan 1930 Closed Cab pickup Smith Motor Compressor 1951 Ford F1 High Desert Model A's

03-22-2019, 01:08 PM	#8
duke36 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,414	Re: Gas shutoff valve If you don't mind a non stock setup, what I used to do with inside shutoff valves was drain the fuel, remove the valve, install a common brass elbow in the tank bottom to receive the stock gas line/ fittings. Then measure for a 1/8" ball valve from a home supply store, etc.and remove the small line section out. Install compression fittings. I've never had a leak and fuss as common with the orig. valves. The ball valves should be good for ethanol gas.

03-22-2019, 10:04 PM	#11
GerryAllen Senior Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: Birch Bay WA Posts: 190	Re: Gas shutoff valve What I did was take the car for a nice drive. Let the fuel gauge get down to half way through the red 0 on the fuel gauge and 3/4 of a gallon. No big deal, if you are worried about fumes etc do it out side. Gerry Birch Bay WA

03-23-2019, 08:45 AM	#13
Mike Peters Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: South East Wisconsin Posts: 1,279	Re: Gas shutoff valve Funny coincidence. I just went through this. I drained the tank by disconnecting the INSIDE gas line at the shut off valve, switching ends, and it drains nicely into a 2 gallon gas can on the floorboards. Remove carpet or rubber mat first. If your shut off valve is plugged, like mine was, blow compressed air through it and gas will drain. Flush tank as best you can, use a magnet on a stick to pick up any loose rust. DON'T use a vacuum cleaner. Then install a pencil screen in the shutoff valve and reassemble.

03-23-2019, 08:55 AM	#14
Benson Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,594	Re: Gas shutoff valve After draining the tank remember that If a pencil filter is installed in the shutoff valve that several cups of gas remains in the tank. Have bucket ready when you remove the shutoff valve to catch the gas if you have nice carpet installed!

03-23-2019, 09:13 AM	#15
30 Closed Cab PU Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 2,332	Re: Gas shutoff valve My alternate method - Use a cheap plastic/Rubbermaid/equivalent tub/storage tub/tote from Walmart, turn off the gas shutoff, drain the float bowl which drains the gas line from the sediment bowl, disconnect the line at the carb, check /clean the carb fuel line screen, connect a hose/vinyl tube to the gas line and turn on the gas valve. Turn on the radio, grab a soda/coffee/beer/chair and watch it drain into the tub. Once drained you can put the lid on the container to keep fumes down. When removing the gas valve 1st put down a piece of plastic and catch pan under the shutoff on the floor board/carpet/mat, put some bunched up rags/paper towels in the pan to prevent splashing due to the what is left in the tank draining. I prefer to do this outside. Remove the valve, this is a good time to either add or clean the valve pencil filter. Also a good to clean the bottom of the tank, . Some use a magnet to pickup rust, Again do outside. Then siphon the gas in tub into a gas can/container to put back in the car. Installing the petcock I use plumbers white teflon tape on the shutoff threads.

03-23-2019, 05:14 PM	#19
Mike Peters Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: South East Wisconsin Posts: 1,279	Re: Gas shutoff valve I don't understand the thinking here. If rust flakes were to gather at the bottom of the tank, the home made filter would work just as well. The fuel would just enter the valve from above the rusty crap, just like with the commercial ones. Or am I missing something? _________ Synchro: You are correct. Gas tank crap will pile up against the home made screen the same as the commercial version. Takes about 15 minutes to whip up a brass screen filter at home if you can solder.

03-23-2019, 08:07 PM	#20
30 Closed Cab PU Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Posts: 2,332	Re: Gas shutoff valve Hi Mike. I do not have written proof. This is my logic based on what I have been told/observed. Am open to disagreement, being corrected. When I was in high school I had a mid sixties Honda motorcycle where the petcock developed a leak. It had 3 positions - off, reserve, and on. So I drained the tank with the petcock in the reserve position expecting it to drain dry.. Then removed it and surprise, got about a cup or two more gas. Examining the petcock it had a very short tube sticking up into the tank for on, and a longer tube for reserve. I asked the motorcycle dealer/parts guy why the short tube for on, and he told me it was so that water/rust would not go into the petcock screen and plug the screen when bike when the gas was low. This bike had a screen similar to the gas bowl screen in tan A, but was inside/part of the petcock. I know you have old tractors, my dad also collected old tractors. So I asked him about it. He told me some tractors have a depression at the bottom of the tank to collect water/crud, and they are bear to clean out. Additionally he told me some tractors the hole for the petcocks had a flange sticking up creating a place in the bottom of the tank that did not drain with the petcock removed for the same reason. I have also noticed when draining my A tank and radiator, any rust/junk/water immediately quickly sinks to the bottom of the tub being drained into, and when agitated by moving/shaking the tub has a tendency to stay on the bottom instead of floating around suspended in the gas/coolant. Since it tends to stay at the bottom and if the filter has a bottom part of the screen that is solid, I assume there is less chance of plugging the screen. Your point of only the bottom of the screen getting plugged with more screen available towards the top, to me would work better if the fashioned screen went higher than the commercial screens.