Stolen Model A recovered

[Dave Mellor NJ]

This was just posted on the AACA forums. I didn't see it posted here. This is the one from Lancaster,Pa.http://forums.aaca.org/f169/stolen-m...nd-363606.html

[Deluxe Delivery Don]

That is GREAT NEWS !!!!!!

[P.S.]

So, the insurance company paid him $20K last month. The car has since been found, and the guy wants it back. The insurance company won't let the poor guy return the money and get his car back! The insurance company is going to sell the car in an auction, and the former owner has to bid against whoever else if he wants his car back. That is just plain wrong.

Looks like the insurance company thinks it's worth more than the settlement and wants to make some money on it. That's crooked. I sure hope the guy gets his fordor back for less than the settlement and "sticks it to the man"!!!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by P.S.

Looks like the insurance company thinks it's worth more than the settlement and wants to make some money on it. That's crooked. I sure hope the guy gets his fordor back for less than the settlement and "sticks it to the man"!!!

It probably isn't that simple in that insurance companies are bound by contracts with salvage pools (auctions) for all their recovered vehicles BUT the biggest thing here IMO is, "Can that man's car truly be replaced for $20k?"

I suspect not, ....and I know I am like a broken record saying this over and over but in my view, this man was under-insured and is having trouble finding a replacement car equal to what he had for the $20k settlement. If he had received something like $40k, would he have likely told the insurance company that he had found a suitable replacement and they just keep the car?

[trulyvintage]

Brent,

Point well taken

But the owner bought the insurance policy



Jim

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Originally Posted by trulyvintage

Brent,

Point well taken

But the owner bought the insurance policy



Jim

True, but I have seen it over & over where the owner "under-insured" his vehicle and when it came time to repair, --or replace the vehicle due to an incident, the coverage amount was not enough to pay for something equal to what they had. Then they are left with a bad taste.

Did you get out of ND before the weather hit?

[Ross/Kzoo]

Does that mean that the title will be a salvaged title?

[Mitch//pa]

yes any car paid out as a total loss will have a certificate of salvage. as brent has mentioned as well as i most just dont get it about agreed values and probably never will until something happens

unfortunately for this man trying to get his car back i suspect heavy bidding because of the publicity but with the 20k in his pocket he has a good chance of getting it.
in pa he will have to apply for a reconstructed title

[oliverguy]

I'm glad they found his car. That being said, agreed value is exactly that. He had it insured for 20K and that's what the insurance company gave him. They now own the car. If he wants it back he needs to buy it. The insurance company uses an auction to do that.

I can't see how a 4 door is worth any more than 20K though. There has got to besome kind of reasonable cap. Is there such a thing as a 40K for door? After all the other BS like taxes and auction fees and getting the title straightened out probably aextra few thousand would ease the pain a little.

People underinsure because they want to keep their premiums low. Kind of crazy if you ask me, it's taking a huge risk.

[P.S.]

His son bought him that car. I'm certain there is some sentimental value not being considered here.

Was he underinsured? I'm certain. However, he not being able to return the money to the insurance company and get his car back just feels wrong on many levels.

[kelley's restoration]

Originally Posted by Ross/Kzoo

Does that mean that the title will be a salvaged title?

yes...
but he already has the original title soooooo
tk

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by kelley's restoration

yes...
but he already has the original title soooooo
tk

the original title had to be turned in when he received the $$$$$

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by P.S.

His son bought him that car. I'm certain there is some sentimental value not being considered here.

Was he underinsured? I'm certain. However, he not being able to return the money to the insurance company and get his car back just feels wrong on many levels.

them be the rules read the policy... sentimental issues etc are non exisistent when dealing with insurance companys.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by oliverguy

I'm glad they found his car. That being said, agreed value is exactly that. He had it insured for 20K and that's what the insurance company gave him. They now own the car. If he wants it back he needs to buy it. The insurance company uses an auction to do that.

I can't see how a 4 door is worth any more than 20K though. There has got to besome kind of reasonable cap. Is there such a thing as a 40K for door? After all the other BS like taxes and auction fees and getting the title straightened out probably aextra few thousand would ease the pain a little.

People underinsure because they want to keep their premiums low. Kind of crazy if you ask me, it's taking a huge risk.

I believe you are WAY out of touch in that regard. A Fordor with excellent wood is a rare commodity to begin with. It generally costs in excess of $10k just to professionally have new wood fabricated and installed.

As far as a reasonable cap, to professionally have a Fordor properly restored to fine-point standards can easily exceed $80k. The term "worth" may not seem the same to you as it does in reality. If you suffer a loss on a car you restored personally, you likely are not willing for an insurance company to tell you that they will buy the parts to repair it if you will do the labor yourself for free. Remember, the key phrase in insurance is they are only obligated to pay to have a vehicle returned to the same condition as it was 10 seconds prior to the casualty. It costs more to have something repaired however in the collector car world, finding something that is truly equal is very difficult.

Originally Posted by kelley's restoration

yes...
but he already has the original title soooooo
tk

Not likely, in most every instance the insurance company swaps a settlement check for the vehicle title. They are now the rightful legal owner.

I guess some feel wrong on many levels however the insurance company did all they were asked/expected to do. They bought and paid The Model-A owner for a vehicle. Imagine how this is any different than someone selling a Model-A to someone and then 6 months later the Seller approaches the Buyer and says he wants to return the sales price and expects the vehicle to be returned. It is doubtful that would happen.

[ericr]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

It probably isn't that simple in that insurance companies are bound by contracts with salvage pools (auctions) for all their recovered vehicles BUT the biggest thing here IMO is, "Can that man's car truly be replaced for $20k?"

I suspect not, ....and I know I am like a broken record saying this over and over but in my view, this man was under-insured and is having trouble finding a replacement car equal to what he had for the $20k settlement. If he had received something like $40k, would he have likely told the insurance company that he had found a suitable replacement and they just keep the car?

barring some contractual agreement along the lines you mentioned, I don't see how the insurance carrier is out anything by trading the guy's car back to him for the 20,000.00.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by ericr

barring some contractual agreement along the lines you mentioned, I don't see how the insurance carrier is out anything by trading the guy's car back to him for the 20,000.00.

Actually, you are correct, ...AND the insurance company would likely enjoy nothing more than to please their policy holder by giving back his car and receiving all of their $20k they paid out HOWEVER they are under a contractual agreement with a salvage company who purchases ALL of their total loss claims. I think that number used to be something like 10% of the payout amount is what the Insurance Company receives from the Salvage Co. with the exception of 'fire or burned' vehicles. Whichever company has the contract must receive ALL vehicles that the Insurance company has that is a total loss. The salvage company takes a gamble on the entire yearly supply they receive where they might lose money on some vehicles yet make money on others. If the Insurance Company had the option to only send the vehicles that are worth less than the 10% salvage figure, then the salvage company would lose $$ overall and might want to cancel their contract. I know that it is becoming less of an option to repurchase your vehicle back from the Ins. company in a total-loss claim. I have been told by the adjustors who have come here to my shop they do not do this because of the liability however in thinking about this now, it is also possible the Ins. company is concerned about jeopardizing their contractual agreement with the Salvage company.

[1931 flamingo]

I myself wouldn't go near a car at auction/or private with a salvage /reconstruct title. This one being just stolen would be different, but a subsequent buyer, not knowing what/why the salvage title would/might be skeptical. Certainly with a salvage title it is worth much less money. JMO
Paul in CT

[bill44]

There are exceptions to the Salvaged title rule in California. The insurance company can ask that a salvage title not be issued in some cases. Most are recovered thefts that have little or no damage. Some just have cosmetic damage like stolen radio or wheels and tires gone. I was an adjuster for 40 years and we always let the insured have the first right of refusal on a recovered car. Some times the car may be recovered all the way across the country and that cost has to be included, but it is not damage. Another reason to not have a salvage certificate.

[BlueSunoco]

I guess MOST of us are on the cheap for valuing an antique car, to save a few bucks on the premium. I suppose I am guilty of that too. You just play the odds thinking it won't happen to YOU.

But if or when it does the reality hits.

I think that guy can get that car back for 20 bills, if not walk away and find another. You can't let emotions rule a business decision or you're asking for trouble. Maybe take the cash and go find a pretty darn good little Tudor they're a better car anyway IMO.

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

I believe you are WAY out of touch in that regard. A Fordor with excellent wood is a rare commodity to begin with. It generally costs in excess of $10k just to professionally have new wood fabricated and installed.

As far as a reasonable cap, to professionally have a Fordor properly restored to fine-point standards can easily exceed $80k. The term "worth" may not seem the same to you as it does in reality.

I've seen you say the same in the past. I agree that many or maybe even most such cars are indeed under insured. With that said, your other points aren't often pertinent. I've never heard of an insurance company that will insure a car for more than "fair market value". Insurance companies have their own data they follow and won't exceed those numbers unless provided with a credible appraisal. The "actual cost" to have a car professionally restored plays absolutely no role in determining market value and typically exceeds market value by as much as double.