Knock on Model A's door

[DRG-ler]

Hello Guys, sorry for my bad english, but I come from Germany and write with Google Translator. My school English has rusted for 20 years.

About my problem.

I own a 1930 Tudor, and while driving over short, hard bumps I have a thud from the vicinity of the door lock on the driver's side. The smell does not come from the door itself, but from the body! I've already removed the rear side panel, but I couldn't see anything unusual. The rear window guide and window regulator also look fine.
The shock absorbers are also firm.

The door lock in the door latch does not rattle. The door does not open anywhere, it closes cleanly. Now I'm running out of options. Does anyone else have an idea? I'm afraid that the wood of the B-pillar has come loose. How can you control something like that? The problem is only on the driver side!

Best regards from Berlin

Andy

[J Franklin]

If I stopped all rattles and knocks in my car I would think it had finally died.

[t farr]

I had a similar problem. 2 years to track it down. The 2 screws holding the front windscreen to the body were loose and periodically loosen again.

[Steve Plucker]

Andy,

Welcome...Nice Deluxe Tudor!

OK...I am sure you did not mean this: "The smell does not come from the door itself, but from the body!". But what I think you meant to say was that "The SOUND....from the body"???

You may have to remove some upholstery panels to find out the problem. Have you taken it for a drive with the panels removed?

I like your blinkers!

Pluck

Pluck

[Joop]

Check your hinge pins they maybe to loose

Überprüfen Sie Ihre Scharnierstifte, die sich möglicherweise lösen

[Synchro909]

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In a largely unsuccessful attempt to prevent those noises, Ford installed a rubber pad on the door sill that the door sat on and another at the top. The idea was that the door would be held between them and not move. There is also a dovetail fitting (male side on the door post and female in the door) to support the door. It is very much inferior to what we have come to expect from cars these days. The whole approach to making the body for a car has changed, largely because the old way was inadequate. I experience the same bangs and thuds when I drive my Tudor but it is all part of the experience of driving a piece of history.
I have expained before on this forum how I and my wife travel thousands of miles at a time through the Australian outback (supposed to be doing it now but the virus has prevented it). We use a Phaeton because a closed car like yours will not survive the rough roads. The doors fall off them.
My advice is do the best you car to stop the noises but don't expect a 90 years old car to be like a new one.
Oh, By THe Way, welcome to the hobby and the forum. You are at the beginning of one heck of a ride.

[Gold Digger]

I had a similar noise when I bought my 30 tudor a few years ago. It was on the passenger side. I found that it was the body mount on the back corner had broken. I can't remember how I repaired it now but I remember all I did was take out the back seat and fixed it through that opening. I didn't do any welding I remember. I guess old age is creeping up on me.

[McMimmcs]

I had a friend sit in the back seat with a heater hose up to his ear moving it until he had zeroed in on the sound. Not scientific but it worked.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Welcome to the Barn, very nice looking car. I really like the colors.

[Y-Blockhead]

A guy in our club had an elusive noise we could not find. We shook it, removed shock arms, wiggled things, etc. Finally found it was the body mount bolts loose on the drivers side on the car. Just a thought...

Good luck, I'm casing a couple of annoying rattles myself in my Town Sedan.

[Bill G]

Greetings Andy! I would also check the rubber pads. One at the top of the door and one at the bottom. Also, check that the dovetail (Middle of the pillar) is not loose and check that inside the edge of the door where the doveetail meets, there should be some rubber and the little brass clip.

By the way, your English is much better than my Deutsch! I took German in high school 50 years ago, and if I am hearing German spoken, I can maybe get 5 or 10% of it. Welcome to the forum!

[Brad in Germany]

What a good looking car......love the original German license plate!

As for the clunking noise, do you have all of your door bumpers installed?

Here's a photo of them from Brattons Antique Auto Parts:

Brad in Maryland, USA

[DRG-ler]

Oh WOW, so many answers. Thank you for that.

OK...I am sure you did not mean this: "The smell does not come from the door itself, but from the body!". But what I think you meant to say was that "The SOUND....from the body"???

Yes sorry. That is why I hate translator programs! They write a lot of nonsense.
We are actually talking about noises/sounds from the body. I am not a gravedigger.


@ Franklin

If I stopped all rattles and knocks in my car I would think it had finally died.

Basically, I see it that way, but this rattle is very massive. That makes you think.

@t farr

I had a similar problem. 2 years to track it down. The 2 screws holding the front windscreen to the body were loose and periodically loosen again.

I have already found this error and fixed it with a rubber pad.



@ Steve

You may have to remove some upholstery panels to find out the problem. Have you taken it for a drive with the panels removed?

I haven't done it yet, but I'll do it.
Turn signals are made in the USA. Freshly restored and assembled four days ago. Look really good!


@ Joop
Thanks, but the doors are really tight in the frame. Hinges are great.


@ Synchro909

I experience the same bangs and thuds when I drive my Tudor but it is all part of the experience of driving a piece of history.

Yes ... I would also see it if this sound came from both doors.
I checked this dovetail fitting. Slightly rubbed off but intact. I have to try driving with the door slightly open.


@ Gold Digger and Y-Blockhead

I found that it was the body mount on the back corner had broken.

Finally found it was the body mount bolts loose on the drivers side on the car.

My thoughts go there too and these scare me a little. How is the body attached to the frame? Can someone say that or does someone have pictures?


@ Magicbox51

I would also check the rubber pads. One at the top of the door and one at the bottom.

I mean that I don't have these rubbers. But not on the passenger side either. Are these original parts that you get from Mac’s or something?

Also, check that the dovetail (Middle of the pillar) is not loose and check that inside the edge of the door where the doveetail meets, there should be some rubber and the little brass clip.

I'll control, but I mean it's firm. A plastic part has broken behind the door latch cover in the B-pillar.

...I took German in high school 50 years ago...

I studied Russian for four years at the time, I know nothing more!


@ Brad

As for the clunking noise, do you have all of your door bumpers installed?

I do not think so. Where are these parts installed? Are there any pictures?

love the original German license plate!

Yes, it is a historical original part here from Berlin from the 30s.



Best regards from Berlin
Andy

[DRG-ler]

Here are some quick pictures...

The rubber at the bottom of the driver's door. Probably no longer fulfills its purpose.
On the top i have not a rubber.






Then the dovetail fitting ...






And finally the broken parts on the B-pillar.

[dmaxweb]

The last picture looks to be the original hard rubber piece used as a nailing block for the upholstery panel. There are replacement blocks made of wood but you will likely need to take the upholstery panels off to replace them. Believe me, replacing it can lead to lots of other projects. First off, the replacement blocks need to be shaped to fit. You can just see the new block in the upper left hand corner of the picture.

Among other things, I ened up taking out all the panels to add sound insulation, repairing the door panels, installing seat belts, heat insulation under floor...and it's still ongoing. Being retired and sheltering in place, it keeps the boredom away.

[dmaxweb]

Originally Posted by Brad in Germany

What a good looking car......love the original German license plate!

As for the clunking noise, do you have all of your door bumpers installed?

Here's a photo of them from Brattons Antique Auto Parts:

Brad in Maryland, USA

Not all of the vendors have the correct door bumpers. I ended up getting mine from Snyders. They have them by year and body style.

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/P...r/door-bumpers

[DRG-ler]

@ dmaxweb

Believe me, replacing it can lead to lots of other projects.

I do not want / need to replace this part if I can rule out that it is responsible for the beating noise. First and foremost, I want to drive the car, not completely restore it.

For my Model A, built in 1930, should this set be the right one?


https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/P...r/door-bumpers

[1930artdeco]

Andy, welcome to the Barn.


<My thoughts go there too and these scare me a little. How is the body attached to the frame? Can someone say that or does someone have pictures?>


The Body is held to the frame by several bolts. I think there are 4-6 on each side of the car. There will be two up front that I know of for sure two in the middle I think and two in the back. If you go under the car you will see them coming through the top of the frame.


Mike

[30 Closed Cab PU]

If you end up installing door bumpers, lubricate then after installation with Bees Wax, or from part of an old wax toilet bowl ring. Keeps the bumpers from squeaking. I usually carry a small piece in a zip lock bag with my on the road spares.

[Brad in Germany]

Originally Posted by dmaxweb

Not all of the vendors have the correct door bumpers. I ended up getting mine from Snyders. They have them by year and body style.

https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/P...r/door-bumpers

Brattons does the same with specific bumper kits by year and body style.

The set that I posted would be the correct one for Andy's 1930 Tudor.

Brad in Maryland

[ericr]

Lieber Andy!

Ich weiß das klingt blöd, aber was passiert wenn man auf dem Trittbrett steht und das Auto ein- und ausfedern lässt?

Inhochachtungvoll!

Eric

[Joop]

Translation

I know it sounds stupid but what happens if you stand on the runningboard and rock the car back and forth.
Joop :-))

[ericr]

Originally Posted by Joop

Translation

I know it sounds stupid but what happens if you stand on the runningboard and rock the car back and forth.
Joop :-))

LOL übersetzer Joop, it's nice to see a sense of humor in these particular times.

I've been reading his diagnoses again. No doubt his door anti-rattlers are kaput but it is hard for me to grasp that causing the level of noise he relates.

Do you think a body block is cracked or loose?

[DRG-ler]

Sorry for the late reply. Unfortunately I had to go to the hospital for surgery at short "notice"?!?! (Is that the right word? I think the translator is annoying me here again ...) I came out without Corona, and meanwhile I'm getting better.

Thanks for the German translation.

Nothing can be heard when swinging on the running board. Even when driving over "long" bumps you hear nothing. But very clear when driving over short hard edges. Like a pothole.
You can clearly feel the beating when you touch the body panel on the outside of the B-pillar. The vibrations are clearly transmitted through the sheet.


Thanks Andy

[ericr]

Andreas, wir sind verwirrt…..


At this point, your only option is to take the door upholstery off---have you done that already?

[DRG-ler]

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Hello. No, I am not yet able to screw. I can do better, but it will take me a few more days.

However, yesterday I was able to use the time, and at least make a little trip again and gather new knowledge.

The clatter doesn't come out of the door !!! I opened the door once while driving, and the rattling was still there. Dovetail and rubber buffers cannot be the cause.

The noise appears to be generated under the rear side window. There, however, I had already removed the side paneling months ago and could not see anything wrong. There isn't much there. Body, window regulator and window. But everything seemed to be solid! It also rattles with the window open or closed!

So troubleshooting is not fun if you can't find it.

Greetings from Berlin

Andy

[ericr]

Maybe someone suggested this already: have you had a friend that is knowledgeable about cars, ride in the back seat while you drive, and try to find the source of the noise?

Viel Gluck,

Eric

[DRG-ler]

Will probably result in ...

Greetings from Berlin

Andy

[ericr]

Andy!


Hast Du die Halterungen von der hinteren Federung gecheckt? (rear spring mountings)


Hast Du ein Diagramm, das zeigt wo die Karosse mit dem Rahmen verbunden ist?
(diagram of body mounting bolts)


-Eric

[DRG-ler]

Hello Eric, hello everyone else ...

Today I took my time and got under the car. All the screws I could see from below were tight. Body, frame, everything! Then I removed the rear seat and removed the left side panel. I could NOT find it here either! I will probably do a test ride with a friend soon, who will have to hear exactly where the clatter comes from.

But what I noticed quite a while ago ... if the car is on a straight road, it hangs a bit to the left. the left side compresses deeper! The spring itself is not broken! The suspension doesn't look bad either. Still strange and confusing!
However, I am considering whether the left rear shock absorber could stop at the end. I will probably take a test drive with clamped shock absorbers to rule out this error.

Greetings Andy

[old31]

DR, you have a nice looking car.

Remember, if it doesn't leak fuel, doesn't leak oil, rattle, sqweek, smell, doesn't brake, cant get out of its own way in traffic, cant see out of the windshield in heavy rain, never brakes down, never gets a thumbs up, never brings a smile to people that see it, never gets honks from other drivers, then it is not a Model A.

[DRG-ler]

Yes you are right. But I want people to wave to me tomorrow or the day after tomorrow, and not that the car breaks apart beforehand. ;-)

Greetings Andy