The Ford Barn

roccaas · 12-17-2010, 05:27 PM

In a recent (and controversial posting) a Phaeton was shown with a Flathead V8.

Did Ford try any engines besides our trusty 3.3 liters of 40 screaming horses in the A?

Did they ever try the X4 engine? The engine made of wood? The diesel? I seem to remember reading that these were Ford concepts or the Press' "vaporware" and rumormongering during the long downtime between the end of T production and the introduction of the A.

I'd assume that some test mule A's were built or modified to run the V8 before the Deuces came to market.

ed stanley · 12-17-2010, 05:52 PM

No - thank God.

Grapejuice · 12-17-2010, 06:14 PM

X4? I've heard of the X8, but not the 4.

I saw that Phaeton on Ebay. I'd love to own it, but they want a lot more than I'd be willing to pay for it.

Tinker · 12-17-2010, 08:39 PM

I think ford would have stuck with the 4 forever, or not! Lots of pressure to move to an 8 (solid moves, not based on public opinion). I believe, there was a v16 in the 20's that failed. Want to say cadillac.

LukeDahlinger · 12-17-2010, 09:17 PM

The Cadillac V-16s (and V-12s for that matter) were pretty solidly built. I had the chance to drive a V-16 Caddy a few years back and it was a real pleasure.

The Lincoln V-12 in the late 30s-40s had some design flaws however.

criswellnk · 12-17-2010, 09:27 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Cadillac used the V-16 until 1940. Don't forget about the V-12, a lot of different manufacturers used the V-12, Auburn, Packard, Lincoln, Cadillac, Pierce-Arrow to name a few. Gar Wood, of Wood Hydraulics for you AA dump truck guys, used to race the big engined boats back in the 1920's and 1930's trying to win the APBA Gold Cup.

Special Coupe Frank · 12-17-2010, 09:59 PM

Caddy had two different V-16s...

An overhead-valve job from 1930 thru 1936, which is almost a work of art, and an all-new L-head V-16 for 37-'40.

Marmon also had a V-16.

Caddy, Packard, Lincoln and Franklin had V-12s; so did Pierce-Arrow - after Pierce went out of business in 1938, Seagrave purchased the rights and tooling for the Pierce V-12, and continued using it in fire engines into the 1950's.

I would love to have a 1930-'31 Caddy V-16.

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 12-18-2010, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Special Coupe Frank

Caddy had two different V-16s...

An overhead-valve job from 1930 thru 1936, which is almost a work of art, and an all-new L-head V-16 for 37-'40.

Marmon also had a V-16.

Caddy, Packard, Lincoln and Franklin had V-12s; so did Pierce-Arrow - after Pierce went out of business in 1938, Seagrave purchease the rights and tooling for the Pierce V-12, and continued using it in fire engines into the 1950's.

I would love to have a 1930-'31 Caddy V-16.

Ditto Frank!!

.

Jim Brierley · 12-18-2010, 11:54 AM

There were/are a lot of OHV conversions made for the Model A & B block. I'm currently running a 4-port Riley. In my opinion it is the best street & short track conversion ever built. It has great low & mid range torque.

MrTube · 12-18-2010, 11:55 AM

My dream car is a Duesy which we all know I will never be able to have

If I had to pick a favorite engine, it would be the Lycoming supercharged I-8 Duesenburg used in 1932. 320HP that made everything else at the time including the caddy v-16 look like a joke.

Honestly though, if I ever got one of those engines I wouldn't know whether to put it in a car or hang it on the Christmas tree...

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 12-18-2010, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Brierley

There were/are a lot of OHV conversions made for the Model A & B block. I'm currently running a 4-port Riley. In my opinion it is the best street & short track conversion ever built. It has great low & mid range torque.

Hey Jim, are you saying that ole Henry actually installed one/some of the OHV conversions in his Model A and experimented with them??

.

rotorwrench · 12-18-2010, 01:17 PM

I saw a picture of an experimental V8 that Henry Ford was considering to use in the model A. The picture was in the Tex Smith book "The Complete Ford Flathead V8". At the time of publication of the book, it was owned by Speedway Bill and may still be in his museum. He purchased it from the Henry Ford Museum when they were selling some surplus exibits. The thing didn't have water pumps as it worked like a Model T with thermo-syphon effect. It used Model T type spark plugs and had 25 stud heads. It also had the exhaust system flowing out the front, side, and rear of each bank on the block. I guess it didn't pass muster for the model A production. It still sort of looks like the later V8 but you can really tell it was from an earlier time.

Kerby

ford1 · 12-18-2010, 02:42 PM

lol, there were and are 100's of engines used in the model A, but none stock from the ford factory

Bruce Adams · 12-18-2010, 04:17 PM

I have veen under the impression that Edsel Ford had the FIRST V8 put into a Model A for testing and WENT DRIVING ON A TRIP in itl

If no one else coroborates this, I will look into my Ford history books to find the documentation.

ford1 · 12-18-2010, 05:08 PM

neat, but not factory installed in the model A for sale

LukeDahlinger · 12-18-2010, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Adams

I have veen under the impression that Edsel Ford had the FIRST V8 put into a Model A for testing and WENT DRIVING ON A TRIP in itl

If no one else coroborates this, I will look into my Ford history books to find the documentation.

Actually there were a couple of Model A's fitted with V-8 Motors in '31 and were driven down to Henry Ford's place in Ft. Myers, FL.

I need to plunder for some other stuff tonite, I will try and locate my source material.

Loyd Nix · 12-19-2010, 03:27 PM

Will the 60 hp V8 fit in the a without steering modification? I know the 85 hp won't.

Purdy Swoft · 12-19-2010, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loyd Nix

Will the 60 hp V8 fit in the a without steering modification? I know the 85 hp won't.

The sixty horsepower V8 will clear the model A steering with NO problem.

Charlie Stephens · 12-19-2010, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loyd Nix

Will the 60 hp V8 fit in the a without steering modification? I know the 85 hp won't.

Don't get excited about the 60 because it fits. It is a lot smaller engine (136 cubic inches versus 200 for the Model A) and although it has 20 more HP it has a lot less torque. If you want to go the hop up route you are still better off starting with more inches.

Charlie Stephens

Purdy Swoft · 12-19-2010, 04:27 PM

I installed a 60 hp engine in a 1930 town sedan back in 1963. I used the engine and transmission that was removed from a 1937 Ford pick up. Its a pretty little engine but not worth the trouble. Like Charley says it is a smaller engine and has MUCH LESS low end torque than a model A engine. I ended up with a LONG WINDING first and second gear and when shifted into third gear the engine power dropped off to about an idle. If this swap is made you will at least need the lower 444 gear ratio that was used in some of the Lincoln Zephers.

12-17-2010, 05:27 PM	#1
roccaas Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Savannah, GA Posts: 1,300	Any engines besides Flathead 4's in "A's"? In a recent (and controversial posting) a Phaeton was shown with a Flathead V8. Did Ford try any engines besides our trusty 3.3 liters of 40 screaming horses in the A? Did they ever try the X4 engine? The engine made of wood? The diesel? I seem to remember reading that these were Ford concepts or the Press' "vaporware" and rumormongering during the long downtime between the end of T production and the introduction of the A. I'd assume that some test mule A's were built or modified to run the V8 before the Deuces came to market. __________________ 20 years ago we had Johnny Cash, Steve Jobs, and Bob Hope. Now we have no Cash, no Jobs, and no Hope...please don't let Kevin Bacon die!

12-17-2010, 05:52 PM	#2
ed stanley Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: southbridge, MA Posts: 21	Re: Any engines besides Flathead 4's in "A's"? No - thank God.

12-17-2010, 06:14 PM	#3
Grapejuice Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 123	Re: Any engines besides Flathead 4's in "A's"? X4? I've heard of the X8, but not the 4. I saw that Phaeton on Ebay. I'd love to own it, but they want a lot more than I'd be willing to pay for it. __________________ Alan 1930 Cabriolet (the newest project) 1929 Special Coupe (pieces n parts) 1928 Sport Coupe (the driver)

12-17-2010, 08:39 PM	#4
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Any engines besides Flathead 4's in "A's"? I think ford would have stuck with the 4 forever, or not! Lots of pressure to move to an 8 (solid moves, not based on public opinion). I believe, there was a v16 in the 20's that failed. Want to say cadillac.

12-17-2010, 09:17 PM	#5
LukeDahlinger BANNED Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 956	Re: Any engines besides Flathead 4's in "A's"? The Cadillac V-16s (and V-12s for that matter) were pretty solidly built. I had the chance to drive a V-16 Caddy a few years back and it was a real pleasure. The Lincoln V-12 in the late 30s-40s had some design flaws however. __________________ Wanted- Feb. 1931 Parts Price List www.vintagefordfacts.blogspot.com

12-17-2010, 09:27 PM	#6
criswellnk Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Detroit Posts: 288	Re: Any engines besides Flathead 4's in "A's"? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Cadillac used the V-16 until 1940. Don't forget about the V-12, a lot of different manufacturers used the V-12, Auburn, Packard, Lincoln, Cadillac, Pierce-Arrow to name a few. Gar Wood, of Wood Hydraulics for you AA dump truck guys, used to race the big engined boats back in the 1920's and 1930's trying to win the APBA Gold Cup. __________________ *"Son, there are two ways to do this, your way and the right way." Thanks dad.* Looking for a copy or reprint of 1932 A.E.A. Universal Catalog of Genuine Electrical Service Parts

12-17-2010, 09:59 PM	#7
Special Coupe Frank Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northeast Penna Posts: 2,108	Re: Any engines besides Flathead 4's in "A's"? Caddy had two different V-16s... An overhead-valve job from 1930 thru 1936, which is almost a work of art, and an all-new L-head V-16 for 37-'40. Marmon also had a V-16. Caddy, Packard, Lincoln and Franklin had V-12s; so did Pierce-Arrow - after Pierce went out of business in 1938, Seagrave purchased the rights and tooling for the Pierce V-12, and continued using it in fire engines into the 1950's. I would love to have a 1930-'31 Caddy V-16. Last edited by Special Coupe Frank; 12-18-2010 at 10:53 AM.

12-18-2010, 11:54 AM	#9
Jim Brierley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 4,089	Re: Any engines besides Flathead 4's in "A's"? There were/are a lot of OHV conversions made for the Model A & B block. I'm currently running a 4-port Riley. In my opinion it is the best street & short track conversion ever built. It has great low & mid range torque.

12-18-2010, 11:55 AM	#10
MrTube Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,471	Re: Any engines besides Flathead 4's in "A's"? My dream car is a Duesy which we all know I will never be able to have If I had to pick a favorite engine, it would be the Lycoming supercharged I-8 Duesenburg used in 1932. 320HP that made everything else at the time including the caddy v-16 look like a joke. Honestly though, if I ever got one of those engines I wouldn't know whether to put it in a car or hang it on the Christmas tree...

12-18-2010, 01:17 PM	#12
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: Any engines besides Flathead 4's in "A's"? I saw a picture of an experimental V8 that Henry Ford was considering to use in the model A. The picture was in the Tex Smith book "The Complete Ford Flathead V8". At the time of publication of the book, it was owned by Speedway Bill and may still be in his museum. He purchased it from the Henry Ford Museum when they were selling some surplus exibits. The thing didn't have water pumps as it worked like a Model T with thermo-syphon effect. It used Model T type spark plugs and had 25 stud heads. It also had the exhaust system flowing out the front, side, and rear of each bank on the block. I guess it didn't pass muster for the model A production. It still sort of looks like the later V8 but you can really tell it was from an earlier time. Kerby

12-18-2010, 02:42 PM	#13
ford1 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: oroville ca. Posts: 1,554	Re: Any engines besides Flathead 4's in "A's"? lol, there were and are 100's of engines used in the model A, but none stock from the ford factory

12-18-2010, 04:17 PM	#14
Bruce Adams Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northport, NY Posts: 1,597	Re: Any engines besides Flathead 4's in "A's"? I have veen under the impression that Edsel Ford had the FIRST V8 put into a Model A for testing and WENT DRIVING ON A TRIP in itl If no one else coroborates this, I will look into my Ford history books to find the documentation.

12-18-2010, 05:08 PM	#15
ford1 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: oroville ca. Posts: 1,554	Re: Any engines besides Flathead 4's in "A's"? neat, but not factory installed in the model A for sale

12-19-2010, 03:27 PM	#17
Loyd Nix Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 105	Re: Any engines besides Flathead 4's in "A's"? Will the 60 hp V8 fit in the a without steering modification? I know the 85 hp won't.

12-19-2010, 04:27 PM	#20
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Any engines besides Flathead 4's in "A's"? I installed a 60 hp engine in a 1930 town sedan back in 1963. I used the engine and transmission that was removed from a 1937 Ford pick up. Its a pretty little engine but not worth the trouble. Like Charley says it is a smaller engine and has MUCH LESS low end torque than a model A engine. I ended up with a LONG WINDING first and second gear and when shifted into third gear the engine power dropped off to about an idle. If this swap is made you will at least need the lower 444 gear ratio that was used in some of the Lincoln Zephers.