1937 Flathead lost bolt... Help!

[Goodguy65]

My arthritic fingers enabled me to lose a SS torx head fuel stand bolt down the intake fuel stand hole in my 36 Ford 5W..
I have removed the entire intake assembly as well as the oil pan ( with the engine still in the car ).
I have inspected the entire crank assembly for a hidden pocket where this bolt might be hiding.
The 2 crankcase breather holes on either side of the fuel pump rod bushing are just the right size for the bolt to enter.
Question: is there a space somewhere at the back of the block that this mysterious bolt could be hiding?
Embarrassed and needing help.
Cheers

[51 MERC-CT]

Maybe never really fell in but slipped outside, if not to the floor but somewhere in one of the recesses that would catch it.

[19Fordy]

I am sure you have checked but check again in the valve lifter area and also down the hole where the fuel pump push rod goes. I feel your anxiety and sure hope you find it.
It might have bounced after landing. I know this sounds stupid but, are you really sure it went down the fuel pump stand opening instead of just rolling off the back of the engine?

[1931 flamingo]

Have you tried an extendable magnet, like an old style antenna with a magnet at the end??
Paul in CT

[34PKUP]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

Have you tried an extendable magnet, like an old style antenna with a magnet at the end??
Paul in CT

Won't work on an SS bolt. ( maybe chewing gum)

[JSeery]

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Magnet won't work on most stainless steel bolts. It would depend on the alloy, but most SS bolts I have worked with are not attracted to a magnet.

[19Fordy]

It might be laying in the oil in the valley and you can't see it.

[Lanny]

goodguy65, if you have one of the other bolts, like the one you dropped,
then test it with a magnet to see if it's stainless magnetic alloy.








.

[Goodguy65]

51 Merc : I will have an another search tonight..
19 Fordy : I have looked from the block back past the tranny and nothing..I will look again..my eyes arent what the used to be..I think the disbelief of watching the bolt tumble in slow motion down into the intake hole was such a shock maybe i was mistaken?
1931 Flamingo: The bolt is stainless so the magnet will not work

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

Have you tried an extendable magnet, like an old style antenna with a magnet at the end??
Paul in CT

Paul, I bet you already know that SS is non-magnetic, but I wonder if you knew that any flathead engine worth it's salt would tend to self-righteously spit out a torx head bolt to the farthest corner of the shop?

[Goodguy65]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

It might be laying in the oil in the valley and you can't see it.

I have searched the entire valley..( sounds like I am looking for a lost steer on the ranch ) I even looked under the 2 splash pans

[Goodguy65]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Paul, I bet you already know that SS is non-magnetic, but I wonder if you knew that any flathead engine worth it's salt would tend to self-righteously spit out a torx head bolt to the farthest corner of the shop?

Hilarious 38v8...I knew that was coming from someone..I deserve that trying to be all fancy under the hood..should have just stuck with the original bolts. I feel shame now.

[Goodguy65]

so I suppose there is no hidden cavity or space in the back of the block where it could be.
I have very cautiously manually turned the crank and nothing fell out.

[Ronnieroadster]

Actually there is a hole in the rear of the block that allows the oil that fills the oil pump idler gear cavity to drain down into the pan. Its a stretch that the missing bolt might be in that location but who knows. Also the detail about stainless not being magnetic is not completely true some lower grade stainless hardware is magnetic.
Ronnieroadster

[Tudortomnz]

I feel your pain on this. Did you actually see it go in ? If not, look elsewhere.
I recently thought I dropped [ same old fingers] a small feeler gauge into the valve gear of a small motorcycle engine ; pulled head off etc & no gauge. Finally found it lying amongst some tools I had under the bike. Good luck.

[woodiewagon46]

Some stainless steel, 302, 303, 304, is slightly magnetic when annealed or cold worked. 403, thru 446 stainless is magnetic at all times. Cheap screws are probably 302 or 304 so you might get lucky with a magnet.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Not sure you have actually done what Lanny has suggested in post #8...get an identical SS bolt just like the one that you think went down the oil fill hole, and actually test it to determine if it is somewhat magnetic.
Keep looking, and good luck!!

Check, or recheck for possible places on top of Transmission, crossmembers, frame, etc, etc, where that bolt may be laying on top of, since it may not have made it all the way to the floor. Also, if that bolt did hit the flood, it may have bounced out quite a way from the area where it first hit the floor

[swoopNZ]

A bit like the old lost golf ball trick.
If you can't find it drop another one and see where that goes.
( just kidding - I hope it turns up for you )

[Goodguy65]

Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster

Actually there is a hole in the rear of the block that allows the oil that fills the oil pump idler gear cavity to drain down into the pan. Its a stretch that the missing bolt might be in that location but who knows. Also the detail about stainless not being magnetic is not completely true some lower grade stainless hardware is magnetic.
Ronnieroadster

where is this hole located? is it accessible from the top or the bottom of the engine?

[Tony, NY]

Are the spark plugs out? I've been down this road before with a lost small nut and my flathead.. Engine started running poorly a few weeks later. Had very little compression in one cylinder. Pulled the head and there it was imbedded in the piston along side a small hole. I assume it fell in the spark plug hole because they were out at the time. Hope that's not your case.

[Goodguy65]

plugs are all in thankfully

[Ggmac]

Get a $12 inspection scope and start looking . I would see if the bolt , even though stainless, is magnetic . I'm betting it is slightly at least .

[Goodguy65]

Originally Posted by Ggmac

Get a $12 inspection scope and start looking . I would see if the bolt , even though stainless, is magnetic . I'm betting it is slightly at least .

that was the next step..they have ones that have a light at the end beside the camera that hooks up to your phone..who knew!

[Jack E/NJ]

>>>The 2 crankcase breather holes on either side of the fuel pump rod bushing are just the right size for the bolt to enter.>>>


Probably sitting in the bottom of the pan. Should be OK. Next time you change the oil, maybe fish around the bottom with a coat hanger. Jack E/NJ

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ

>>>The 2 crankcase breather holes on either side of the fuel pump rod bushing are just the right size for the bolt to enter.>>>

Probably sitting in the bottom of the pan. Should be OK. Next time you change the oil, maybe fish around the bottom with a coat hanger. Jack E/NJ

From OP > "I have removed the entire intake assembly as well as the oil pan"

[Goodguy65]

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Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ

>>>The 2 crankcase breather holes on either side of the fuel pump rod bushing are just the right size for the bolt to enter.>>>


Probably sitting in the bottom of the pan. Should be OK. Next time you change the oil, maybe fish around the bottom with a coat hanger. Jack E/NJ

pan has been removed and no bolt...you are correct about the breather holes they are a perfect fit for the bolt size.

the only thing I can ascertain from all the info I have received is it either is NOT in the block and I am hallucinating or it caught up on top of the cam someplace.which I cannot see from the top or the bottom of the open engine.

[Lanny]

Have you rotated the engine over, slowly by hand of coarse, to
see if it might get dislodged and fall down...








.

[leon bee]

I like how almost every one of us has had similar happen. And we're all hoping you find that bolt!

[B-O-B]

Lanny;
quote["I have very cautiously manually turned the crank and nothing fell out".] Goodguy65

[Lanny]

Sometimes it helps to put a pipe wrench on it...





.

[Ggmac]

Originally Posted by Goodguy65

pan has been removed and no bolt...you are correct about the breather holes they are a perfect fit for the bolt size.

the only thing I can ascertain from all the info I have received is it either is NOT in the block and I am hallucinating or it caught up on top of the cam someplace.which I cannot see from the top or the bottom of the open engine.

Can you fabricate a blow gun with 1/4" brake line and bend it to get around some interference, just keep blowing , it should at least make it more visible by blowing oil off it . Hopefully it'll blow it to the ground

[Goodguy65]

I can do that and I will...if I find the time tonight I will see what kind of mess I can create.

I really love the fact that I was so close to pushing the start button after 18 months of work and now this..guess I will chalk it up to what we call " the mockup stage "

[Mart]

The rear wall of the block does have some recesses, in the area below the two oil drain holes at either side of the rear filler tube area. Not saying the bolt is in there, but you just never know.

Can you move the vehicle and then inspect the whole floor area where it was standing?

You need to treat this like a forensic investigation.

I just went out and looked at a block. These areas would really hold a small bolt, they are right below the oil holes in that area.

The oil holes are circled, the arrows point to the recesses and ledges at the back face of the block.



Mart.

[Goodguy65]

great pic Mart! Thanks for that...I have reached up into at least 4 of those recesses after turning the crank out of the way. I will be sure to check the ones closest to the oil holes.
I have scoured the floor as the car is in my lift bay in my shop. never hurts to look again!

[cas3]

if theres any chance it went outside down the bell housing, thats a nice hill that could drop it into the tranny mount and x frame. stuff likes to hide in there i know

[19Fordy]

Carefully examine each valve spring coil.

[terry]

I will ask St Anthony to help you find it.

[richard crow]

have you removed the oil baffle plate in the valve chamber it just snaps over the center pipe check the one in the rear onley will take a min.

[Goodguy65]

Originally Posted by richard crow

have you removed the oil baffle plate in the valve chamber it just snaps over the center pipe check the one in the rear onley will take a min.

This weekend I pulled the baffle plate off..other than a bit of sludge on the underside nothing shiny.

built a flexible fitting for the air compressor and got it up around the cam etc
nothing rattled or came out.

It appears the engine is coming out..wasted enough time looking for this bolt.

[ford38v8]

You've carefully examined and reexamined all the places you really expected to find it...
Now go back and look closely at those most unlikely places that you merely scanned quickly. Odds are that you actually did look right at it without recognizing what you saw!
I know, I'm a big fucking help.

[TagMan]

Ask your wife to take a look for it. Mine usually finds a lost item in about 12 seconds, after I'd been looking for it for an hour or two. She just hands it to me without saying a word and walks away with a kinda smug smile on her face.

[Mart]

Yeah, that's the answer. Ask Tagman's wife to look for it.

[Zeke3]

I have a bare '37 block, so I was looking at it to better understand where the oil drain passages were in the rear of the valley. The two rear oil drain holes originate in the round cast cup area where the fuel pump push rod is located, just under the opening in the intake manifold. There are also two drains from the valley one cylinder forward of that location.

I set an intake manifold on my bare block and tried dropping a 1/4-20 x 5/8" capscrew in the opening for the fuel pump stand. I used a magnetic bolt just in case. The third time I dropped the screw in, it went down one of those drain holes by the fuel pump push rod bushing but it stuck in the passage before getting to the crankcase. I was able to fish it out from the top. You might want to check around in that area again.

If the bolt went through that passage it would probably end up in one of the two top cavities that Mart showed in his picture. They are probably pretty difficult to check with the crankshaft installed.

Good luck with your search.

[Jake dalka]

Ok....extra pair of eyes is a good suggestion....
I have a 40 flathead on the floor so had to take a look for possible hiding places....
The oil pressure sending unit on mine is sitting in a catchers mitt of a pocket....have you tried there?

[Terry,OH]

Look under the car on the floor???

[jayvee34]

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Just wondering if Goodguy65 ever found his bolt? Mystery in America!!