Bishop Tardel roadster body issue

[PeteVS]

A month ago, my brother and I went out to Brookville OH to pickup my '29 roadster body. I ordered it with a flat floor set up fot 2" frame pickup. I finally got it out of my pickup yesterday and got it up on its side a bit. A problem is that the width of the space in the frame cut out and in the rumble seat riser is a bit over 39" wide. I trimmed the ends of the frame rear cross member to 40" which is the width. I could trim the back side of the cross member a bit but I don't want to monkey with it where the kick up welds are. I'm wondering if I should just go into the body with a hammer and beat it out to fit?

[19Fordy]

"Beating" doesn.t seem like a good idea.
There must be a better way.

[Karl Wescott]

First, call Brookville. Try to talk to Kenny. They are the manufacturer, and too often they are the last to find out about a problem. He may be able to help you with a fix, or if it is an issue they caused he may well offer to fix it. Let us know how that worked.

[Tim Ayers]

Where exactly are you referring to? Reason I ask, I can measure against my original '28 roadster body and report back.

[skidmarks]

I cut the rear crossmember off flush with the outside edge of the frame then move the mounting hole in from there about a inch. I sorta remember 38-1/2" width

[rotorwrench]

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It seems like Tardel modified the sub rails by cutting the opening wider and welding in vertical steel strips to give the sub rails their strength back. I don't remember how he rebuilt the rear mount but it's in the book. There were a number of mods including one for the rumble seat riser to get clearance for the frame and rear cross member.

A lot of the Brookville stuff is made to fit their frames.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

It seems like Tardel modified the sub rails by cutting the opening wider and welding in vertical steel strips to give the sub rails their strength back. I don't remember how he rebuilt the rear mount but it's in the book. There were a number of mods including one for the rumble seat riser to get clearance for the frame and rear cross member.

A lot of the Brookville stuff is made to fit their frames.

Correct. The rear sub rails need to be cut around the rear cross member.

Pete, don't beat anything out. It will look like sh*t. It will eventually fit, you just need to figure out what it's hanging up on.

[skidmarks]

Correction, 39-1/2" at the rear crossmember with the ends trimmed off.
Sub rails are trimmed out to 40" giving a 1/4" clearance on both sides.

[rotorwrench]

I went back to the Bishop/Tardel book and it appears that Tardel did the cross member trim as well. There is no evidence of a rear mount being used there. Having a trunk deck instead of a rumble seat would not load that area very much so it may not be an issue.

[skidmarks]

Ad the mount. Unless you want to chance it for a crack. Otherwise the next body mount location is another foot foward.

Common place roadster quarters crack is around the top opening were it wraps around the back about were your shoulder would be sitting in the seat

[PeteVS]

First let me qualify myself on this project.
#1- I have never built a hot rod before but I have wanted to do this for the past 60 years or so.
#2- I have never owned or worked on a Model A.
#3- All I have to go by is the Bishop Tardel book.
#4- I didn't want to complain to the Brookville people until I was certain of what the problem is and be able to recommend how it might be rectified. I'm hoping to get the body on my frame early next week and I'll be able to see if my surgery is right or wrong.
That said, I have pretty much been using the book as a "bible." I did the cutting for the kick up and had it professionally welded. It turns out to be 40" wide where the frame rails get to the rear cross member. There's a drawing in the book showing at '32 frame being used with a '29 body and there's prominent width dimension showing 40". The Brookville "kick up" option leaves a space of 39" plus a bit and looks just like the picture in the book. That said, I got out the angle grinder with a cut off wheel and whacked out another half inch or so to get the 40" so I can get the body on the chassis to be able to get everything into my trailer for the winter. Reconstruction will begin with decent weather in the spring.
Thanks for the feedback!

Picture shows the widening as it came from Brookville.

[Mart]

Building a hot rod does mean you have to cut stuff. The skill is knowing where and how much to cut. Best cut too little and have to take a second trim than taking too much out. You will learn a lot from this, your first build.

Mart.

[PeteVS]

I'm beginning to think that the body kick up should have been vertical instead of horizontal. If it went up over the rear crossmember, there could still be a body mount and full width of the member....

[JSeery]

Hot Rodding is a lot of trial and error & cut and fit. This is just how it is.

Sounds like your off to a good start!!

[rotorwrench]

My first edition of the book has several issues with things like motor mount placement and the use of the 1934 Ford wishbone that were not correct. They couldn't edit them out before the book went to press. Mike made corrections on the HAMB quite a while ago for most of the issues and I believe a later edition many have been edited to put the fixes in. I always wondered about a rear mount until I decided to do mine a bit different. My plan is not to modify the frame but to add to the rear of it to extend for a cross member 7.5 inches to the rear. This will allow everything to stay below the floor and use the spring behind the axle that is normal for the later V8 Ford rear axles. I'm not planning to use a quick change so it will work for me.

The Bishop/Tardel book is still invaluable for building any AV8, even if you change something. It's a good book of ideas but it was only a blueprint for a car like Bluey or a clone to be just like it.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

My first edition of the book has several issues with things like motor mount placement and the use of the 1934 Ford wishbone that were not correct. They couldn't edit them out before the book went to press. Mike made corrections on the HAMB quite a while ago for most of the issues and I believe a later edition many have been edited to put the fixes in. I always wondered about a rear mount until I decided to do mine a bit different. My plan is not to modify the frame but to add to the rear of it to extend for a cross member 7.5 inches to the rear. This will allow everything to stay below the floor and use the spring behind the axle that is normal for the later V8 Ford rear axles. I'm not planning to use a quick change so it will work for me.

The Bishop/Tardel book is still invaluable for building any AV8, even if you change something. It's a good book of ideas but it was only a blueprint for a car like Bluey or a clone to be just like it.

Agree. I've found Vern's latest Model A book is even better. Pictures are clearer and it makes a little more sense for a first timer.

Even though he is doing a 2 door Sedan in the latest book, everything else is relevant to an AV8. You may want to get that book as well.

[PeteVS]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Agree. I've found Vern's latest Model A book is even better. Pictures are clearer and it makes a little more sense for a first timer.

Even though he is doing a 2 door Sedan in the latest book, everything else is relevant to an AV8. You may want to get that book as well.

Bruce had a copy that I borrowed and Xeroxed a few pages out of it. I didn't feel it was worth the price at the time. Zach must have it out in PA now. Anyway, I'm thinking now that it the sub rail (Is that what it's called?) went up and over the crossmember instead of around it, there'd be no reason to trim the ends and there'd still be a place to mount the body back there.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by PeteVS

Bruce had a copy that I borrowed and Xeroxed a few pages out of it. I didn't feel it was worth the price at the time. Zach must have it out in PA now. Anyway, I'm thinking now that it the sub rail (Is that what it's called?) went up and over the crossmember instead of around it, there'd be no reason to trim the ends and there'd still be a place to mount the body back there.

Correct. The subrail (flat piece that runs perpendicular to the body) need to be either cut out or made into a box to correspond to the amount of kick up on the frame.

[PeteVS]

I got the body on the chassis yesterday. Before we mounted it, I went in with the 4-1/2" angle grinder with a cut off wheel and cut where I thought it was needed. (It's rough getting in there with this tool!) I cut about 1/2" out of each side and made a cut 45º from the horizontal at the front of the cut out. (See pic.) The kick up sits nicely in place now. Next move will be to play with cardboard and scissors to make pattern for new pieces to rebuild the structure there. Brookville made the cut out pretty much as was shown in the Bishop Tardel book and I'd have to say that the book isn't really that great in this respect.

I'll send a link to this thread to Brookville so they can see what I'm doing.

[john in illinois]

I used an air saw to cut it. A little more handy. I also used that to pie cut the edge of my trunk to keep the gap right.

I also had to pull the passenger B pillar in 3/4” to fit door.

I found with the book you had to use your own measurements for almost everthing

Looks like you are making good progress.

John