Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-10-2020, 11:49 AM   #1
jackson
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 21
Default Won't go into overdrive when hot.

50 Mercury, stock drive train. BW overdrive. 12 volt with 12 volt solenoid.

When starting out cold, it works as it should.... when I lift the gas pedal, it shifts into overdrive.

After driving for a while.... 20 or so minutes in stop and go traffic, it then will not shift into overdrive.... regardless of speed. It has to sit for several hours before working again.

I do have dual exhaust, and the "added" (drivers side) pipe comes close to the solenoid side of the overdrive unit. Thinking maybe excess heat is causing the problem, I wrapped the exhaust with heat tape, but that doesn't seem to help.

Any ideas ?
__________________
1950 Mercury mild custom. Original flathead, re-built, bored .040 over, Max-1 cam, Offy heads, Edelbrock super duel with Stromberg 48s.
jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2020, 12:26 PM   #2
LuckyFordGuy
Senior Member
 
LuckyFordGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MN.
Posts: 308
Default Re: Won't go into overdrive when hot.

Is it charging like should I had same problem check gen an regulator Rog
LuckyFordGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 08-10-2020, 12:52 PM   #3
donald1950
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: san antonio, texas
Posts: 461
Default Re: Won't go into overdrive when hot.

make sure the wire from the relay to the solenoid is 12 ga wire. smaller gauge wire may overheat and increase resistance in that wire causing the symphonic you are having.... dont ask how many hours i spent tracing that down....
donald1950 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2020, 01:24 PM   #4
Wayne Schuenke
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Darien wi
Posts: 12
Default Re: Won't go into overdrive when hot.

my 50 ford does that when the overdrive unit is low on gear lube
Wayne Schuenke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2020, 10:01 AM   #5
jackson
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 21
Default Re: Won't go into overdrive when hot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by donald1950 View Post
make sure the wire from the relay to the solenoid is 12 ga wire. smaller gauge wire may overheat and increase resistance in that wire causing the symphonic you are having.... dont ask how many hours i spent tracing that down....
Thanks..... I built a new OD wiring harness, but “downsized” wires for 12 volt system. I’ll try your suggestion.

Jackson
__________________
1950 Mercury mild custom. Original flathead, re-built, bored .040 over, Max-1 cam, Offy heads, Edelbrock super duel with Stromberg 48s.
jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2020, 10:30 AM   #6
philipswanson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Bonita, CA
Posts: 1,338
Default Re: Won't go into overdrive when hot.

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Probably a bad solenoid.
philipswanson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2020, 01:06 PM   #7
donald1950
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: san antonio, texas
Posts: 461
Default Re: Won't go into overdrive when hot.

also a suggestion is to tap the 12v off the battery post with a 30 amp fuse inline to the relay. i had a bad ignition switch on one car that was probably corroded internal contacts and would not let the OD operate
donald1950 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-12-2020, 06:18 AM   #8
Frank Miller
Senior Member
 
Frank Miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auburn, MA
Posts: 1,805
Default Re: Won't go into overdrive when hot.

Check for loose connections. Also it is possible the relay is failing when hot. When it is not working ground the terminal with the wire headed to the governor and listen for it to click. Check for voltage at the out put if it does click or if you do not hear the solenoid engage.
__________________
“The technique of infamy is to start two lies at once and get people arguing heatedly over which is true.” ~ Ezra Pound
Frank Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2020, 03:59 PM   #9
jackson
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 21
Default Re: Won't go into overdrive when hot.

Wanted to post this to thank you all for the help. I did get my overdrive working, using the info supplied in this post.

Frank Miller.... my relay was failing when hot. I ended up installing a new 12V relay, one with four posts, rather than the stock three-post, that had just an ignition wire to the fuse, no battery wire. That one wire to the coil was #14.... maybe OK for a 12 volt system, but seems small for the overdrive relay.

Since I now had a four-post relay, I took Donald1950's advice and ran heavier wire I went with #10 from the starter relay to the fuse, and again used #10 from the coil + to the IGN terminal on the relay. I realize #10 is overkill, but I had some available, and it can't hurt.

While under there, I pulled the governor.... it was dirty and gummy. It appears that to disassemble the governor you have to drive a small pin out of the drive shaft. I wasn't prepared to do that, so instead sprayed it full of WD40, which cleaned a lot of gunk out, and dried it with air. I may have ruined it... don't know, but for now it runs perfectly.

Thanks again for the help.
__________________
1950 Mercury mild custom. Original flathead, re-built, bored .040 over, Max-1 cam, Offy heads, Edelbrock super duel with Stromberg 48s.
jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2020, 07:16 AM   #10
Frank Miller
Senior Member
 
Frank Miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auburn, MA
Posts: 1,805
Default Re: Won't go into overdrive when hot.

The governor can be checked without pulling that gear. Taking the cover off and you see the points for the switch. Underneath that is just spinning weights that engage the switch. Just file that. If it is working leave it alone.
whether it is 3 or four post on the relay makes no difference about performance. The three post just splits the incoming power internally. Glad you're up and running and thanks for the update.
__________________
“The technique of infamy is to start two lies at once and get people arguing heatedly over which is true.” ~ Ezra Pound
Frank Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2020, 10:29 AM   #11
jackson
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 21
Default Re: Won't go into overdrive when hot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Miller View Post
The governor can be checked without pulling that gear. Taking the cover off and you see the points for the switch. Underneath that is just spinning weights that engage the switch. Just file that. If it is working leave it alone.
whether it is 3 or four post on the relay makes no difference about performance. The three post just splits the incoming power internally. Glad you're up and running and thanks for the update.
Thanks. I did assume there would be no difference in performance between a three or four post relay...... one of those odd things that keep me wondering. Apparently only FoMoCo used the three post relays. The BW Overdrive manual shows four post in the printed schematics. Wonder why Ford took a different route?

Another overdrive mystery........ if the rail switch can be bypassed without penalty, (it was discontinued altogether in 1951) why was it there in the first place?
__________________
1950 Mercury mild custom. Original flathead, re-built, bored .040 over, Max-1 cam, Offy heads, Edelbrock super duel with Stromberg 48s.
jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2020, 10:52 AM   #12
joe 1950
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Green Bay Wi
Posts: 275
Default Re: Won't go into overdrive when hot.

Had that same problem with my 50 cpe finally figured it out and it was the solenoid took it apart and had to file and align the points and replaced the leather washer works great now hope this helps
joe 1950 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2020, 08:00 AM   #13
Frank Miller
Senior Member
 
Frank Miller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auburn, MA
Posts: 1,805
Default Re: Won't go into overdrive when hot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackson View Post
Thanks. I did assume there would be no difference in performance between a three or four post relay...... one of those odd things that keep me wondering. Apparently only FoMoCo used the three post relays. The BW Overdrive manual shows four post in the printed schematics. Wonder why Ford took a different route?

Another overdrive mystery........ if the rail switch can be bypassed without penalty, (it was discontinued altogether in 1951) why was it there in the first place?

Ford just used the high current wire to switch the relay, thus 3 terminals. If you use a low current circuit to switch the high current you need the 4 terminals. They just made a cheaper or simpler version of what was needed.
__________________
“The technique of infamy is to start two lies at once and get people arguing heatedly over which is true.” ~ Ezra Pound
Frank Miller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2020, 09:36 PM   #14
Paul Bennett
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 620
Default Re: Won't go into overdrive when hot.

Jackson, I would encourage you to continue this thread with your observations. I too have a 1950 Merc and recently converted to 12v, rewired the pedal switch, bought a new 12v solenoid (not yet installed) but awaiting new engine haven't gotten to experience the overdrive yet. So, yes, I'm gathering information here as well. Thanks all.
Paul Bennett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2020, 12:01 PM   #15
shoe box Jack
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Kingston Ontario Canada
Posts: 183
Default Re: Won't go into overdrive when hot.

Hi guys; I'm having the same problem with the 49 is there a 4 wire 6 volt relay ?. thanks for any info. Jack.
shoe box Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2020, 06:08 AM   #16
Mac VP
Senior Member
 
Mac VP's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,138
Default Re: Won't go into overdrive when hot.

The current reproduction relays (whether 6 or 12 volt) are all made with the 4 terminals. The usual Ford overdrive applications normally use just three of the four terminals. We keep these in stock.
__________________
VANPELT SALES LLC
Cincinnati, Ohio
Office: 513-724-9486
www.vanpeltsales.com
www.classictransmission.com
Mac VP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2020, 09:53 AM   #17
Planojc
Senior Member
 
Planojc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 569
Default Re: Won't go into overdrive when hot.

I have found many stock relays with as much as a two volt drop on the output going to the solenoid, due to bad connections inside the relay. If you remove the cover you will see that all connections are made with rivets and over the years corrosion sets in and you get a voltage drop. The rivet connection where the fuse holder connects is usually a place to start. I clean all rivet connections and using a good flux, solder all these connections. You can also have a drop through the ignition switch. I have a test setup with a battery and sol. that I can use to check the voltage going in and out of the relay and after doing the above, if you have proper output from your charging circuit it will work every time. Another thing that helps is to go with an alternator, even if you are running 6v.
Planojc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2020, 01:26 PM   #18
shoe box Jack
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Kingston Ontario Canada
Posts: 183
Default Re: Won't go into overdrive when hot.

Thanks Mac. VP. Just ordered a 4 wire 6 volt relay. Thanks; Jack. [49 ford.]
shoe box Jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:00 PM.