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Old 07-13-2020, 08:20 PM   #1
vernlee
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Default Putting model a on lift

I have a two post lift at home , but what does everyone else do to make it work on a model a coupe ? I hate the thought of taking a whole day to fab. special lift extensions, but I want it safe too , any ideas would be great , pics would be even greater , I'm to old and too fat to get up and down off a creeper more than once a day .

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Old 07-14-2020, 03:37 AM   #2
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Default Re: Putting model a on lift





I use the truck adapters on my two-post lift to get my A up in the air. It takes a bit of jogging to get the arms clear of the wishbones, etc but it's fairly straight forward and I can lift the car by the frame without tweaking the runningboards, which is the biggest hurdle.
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Old 07-14-2020, 06:00 AM   #3
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Default Re: Putting model a on lift

Try lift pad extensions to direct contact on frame forward and aft.
[splash pans on either side of engine represent an obstacle]
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Old 07-14-2020, 08:13 AM   #4
Jack Shaft
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Default Re: Putting model a on lift

Ford designed the model a frame to support the body and provide a means to allow suspension,the actual rigidity of the chassis is the driveline,the torque tube is the 'spine' in traverse suspension systems instead of the frame as it is in hotchkiss style suspensions.The model a frame is lightweight and very flexible,given a choice,always support the car by the axles.
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Old 07-14-2020, 10:08 AM   #5
Ernie Vitucci
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Default Re: Putting model a on lift

Good Morning...When Miss Princess goes in for her oil changes and lube jobs and other work, she is put on the alignment rack...on the 4 point lift in the other shop, we have a steel U-shaped channel that we bolt to the four pads and then drive the 'A's up onto the channel. This works for most jobs except when the wheels need to be removed! Ernie in Arizona
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Old 07-14-2020, 02:41 PM   #6
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Thanks guys , really appreciate the pictures

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Old 07-15-2020, 11:43 AM   #7
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Default Re: Putting model a on lift

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Originally Posted by Jack Shaft View Post
Ford designed the model a frame to support the body and provide a means to allow suspension,the actual rigidity of the chassis is the driveline,the torque tube is the 'spine' in traverse suspension systems instead of the frame as it is in hotchkiss style suspensions.The model a frame is lightweight and very flexible,given a choice,always support the car by the axles.

Ummm, total myth Jack. The frame is plenty strong to support the vehicle on a lift for no longer amount of time than what it will be there.

The torque tube has nothing to do with supporting the frame. Furthermore, if the frame were as weak as you are trying to imply, then think of the frame warpage that would be caused if you jack-up an axle to change a flat tire, -or parked on uneven ground. The axles support the frame from both ends. Maybe that is why the frame sags. If you are supporting it 24" inward from both ends, that supported area is better for the frame, if anything.
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Old 07-15-2020, 12:21 PM   #8
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Default Re: Putting model a on lift

There's always these:
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File Type: jpg wheel_adaptors_0209.jpg (3.6 KB, 230 views)
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Old 07-15-2020, 01:05 PM   #9
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Default Re: Putting model a on lift

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There's always these:
Other than changing the engine oil, what service work can you really do with those?
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Old 07-15-2020, 04:08 PM   #10
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Other than changing the engine oil, what service work can you really do with those?
Adjusting bearing clearances, greasing, locating/fixing oil leaks, changing pistons and/or rings, tie rod end service, basically almost anything that does not require removing a tire
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Old 07-15-2020, 05:09 PM   #11
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Ummm, total myth Jack. The frame is plenty strong to support the vehicle on a lift for no longer amount of time than what it will be there.

The torque tube has nothing to do with supporting the frame. Furthermore, if the frame were as weak as you are trying to imply, then think of the frame warpage that would be caused if you jack-up an axle to change a flat tire, -or parked on uneven ground. The axles support the frame from both ends. Maybe that is why the frame sags. If you are supporting it 24" inward from both ends, that supported area is better for the frame, if anything.

The frame is a lightweight flexible member,regardless of what you think.The engine,transmission torque tube and rear axle provide the spine of the car unlike hotchkiss type open driveshaft ladder frame designs,where the frame is the actual structure..
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Old 07-15-2020, 05:12 PM   #12
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Default Re: Putting model a on lift

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Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
Ummm, total myth Jack. The frame is plenty strong to support the vehicle on a lift for no longer amount of time than what it will be there.

The torque tube has nothing to do with supporting the frame. Furthermore, if the frame were as weak as you are trying to imply, then think of the frame warpage that would be caused if you jack-up an axle to change a flat tire, -or parked on uneven ground. The axles support the frame from both ends. Maybe that is why the frame sags. If you are supporting it 24" inward from both ends, that supported area is better for the frame, if anything.

The frame is a lightweight flexible member,regardless of what you think.The engine,transmission torque tube and rear axle provide the spine of the car unlike hotchkiss type open driveshaft ladder frame designs,where the frame is the actual structure..

If you have to ask why you need a lift you've never used one..
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Old 07-16-2020, 02:02 AM   #13
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Default Re: Putting model a on lift

How does this "spine" support the car when traveling down the road since the ONLY support points are where the front and rear springs contact the FRAME. The engine, transmission, torque tube, rearend and everything else hang off the frame.

Show me how you would raise a Model A by the axles using a typical two-post lift. I'm genuinely curious as I must be doing it wrong.

I removed the torque tube from my Model A and converted it to an open driveline. Did I severe its' spine? Will it collapse on the road? It hasn't yet nor has it fallen off the two post lift in three months.

Not trying to start a pissing contest, just trying to help people out using rear world scenarios and not someone's theory. I understand the Model A frame was designed to flex, but to say it won't support the vehicle in the air is a bit silly.
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Old 07-16-2020, 05:54 AM   #14
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Default Re: Putting model a on lift

I have been using an Atlas 2 post for 6 years with my A. I also store it up on the lift in the winter months and place another car underneath with no issues.

I do have the optional truck adapter risers.

https://www.gregsmithequipment.com/A...iAAEgJiU_D_BwE
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Old 07-16-2020, 07:42 AM   #15
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How does this "spine" support the car when traveling down the road since the ONLY support points are where the front and rear springs contact the FRAME. The engine, transmission, torque tube, rearend and everything else hang off the frame.

Show me how you would raise a Model A by the axles using a typical two-post lift. I'm genuinely curious as I must be doing it wrong.

I removed the torque tube from my Model A and converted it to an open driveline. Did I severe its' spine? Will it collapse on the road? It hasn't yet nor has it fallen off the two post lift in three months.

Not trying to start a pissing contest, just trying to help people out using rear world scenarios and not someone's theory. I understand the Model A frame was designed to flex, but to say it won't support the vehicle in the air is a bit silly.
Tell us how your rear radius rods are holding up,how can you correctly eliminate the trunnion? with heim joints? ever wonder how hotrodders die? ..when you went open driveshaft you transferred the rear suspension load to the frame and removed the suspensions oscillating point without any consideration of how the car is engineered..talk about silly..

The springs are bolted to the A frame to transfer the weight of the load to the suspension.The suspension 'triangles' (radius rods and axle form a triangle)oscillate on a trunnion in the rear and a ball joint on the front...both points are anchored to the 'spine',which also holds the suspension in alignment..the frame ladder is a means to secure the carried load and body mounting and provide a point of attachment of the spine.

Last edited by Jack Shaft; 07-16-2020 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 07-16-2020, 08:22 AM   #16
vernlee
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Default Re: Putting model a on lift

well it took me about 3 to 4 hours in the blistering heat to make some extensions . But the coupe is up on the lift , their working great , thanks everyone .

Vern
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Old 07-16-2020, 09:56 AM   #17
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Default Re: Putting model a on lift

Interesting discussion here, for sure. When ever I overhear a heated discussion as to the "proper" way to treat a Model A, I can't help but thing of all the zillions of times that our wonderful "A's" were hoisted, levered, lifted and twisted over the past ninety years... and relative to the current conversation , I doubt the many were folded in the process.

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Old 07-16-2020, 10:25 AM   #18
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Default Re: Putting model a on lift

I am NOT an engineer (not by a long shot) and am relatively new to model A's, but I THINK I have a working understanding of the engineering that Henry Ford (or was it Edsel?) put into the design of the model A and Where Jack Shaft is coming from. The "strength" of the model A comes from the triangulation of the radius rods and axles as well as the torque tube/trans/engine. This is what gives the "A" it's diagonal strength (keeps everything square). However, I have given this a lot of thought ( and studied my own "A" that is sitting on my 2 post lift, lifted by the frame as I write this and still fail to see the relevance of this triangulated chassis strength as it would relate to the vertical pressures when lifting the car by the frame. No matter how i look at it, the entire weight of the body is being supported by the front and rear cross member ONLY. That weight is transferred to the frame rails at the cross member points and as such, I fail to understand how supporting the weight from where the cross members attach to the frame rails is functionally stronger than supporting it from four solid points inboard of the two cross members. In fact, where the fame is free to flex when only REALLY supported by 2 central points (front spring mount and rear spring mount) it is held relatively rigid when lifted from 4. Anyway, like I said, I am NOT an engineer so I may be WAY off here but I have yet to figure out how the triangulated strength designed into the chassis has any relevance to lifting vertically. Opinion subject to change pending compelling arguments to the contrary.
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Old 07-16-2020, 12:16 PM   #19
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Default Re: Putting model a on lift

If a 4 door phaeton was lifted by the frame and the door alignment changed you would know that lifting by the frame is not as good as a drive on lift. I remember back in the fifty’s lifting a convertible a hardtop without a door post, with a 2 post lift on the frame would change the door alignment so they wouldn’t open. Back on four wheels the doors would work. Me, I like a drive on lift with jacking beams.
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Old 07-16-2020, 02:35 PM   #20
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Default Re: Putting model a on lift

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Originally Posted by Jack Shaft View Post
Tell us how your rear radius rods are holding up,how can you correctly eliminate the trunnion? with heim joints? ever wonder how hotrodders die? ..when you went open driveshaft you transferred the rear suspension load to the frame and removed the suspensions oscillating point without any consideration of how the car is engineered..talk about silly..

The springs are bolted to the A frame to transfer the weight of the load to the suspension.The suspension 'triangles' (radius rods and axle form a triangle)oscillate on a trunnion in the rear and a ball joint on the front...both points are anchored to the 'spine',which also holds the suspension in alignment..the frame ladder is a means to secure the carried load and body mounting and provide a point of attachment of the spine.
My car is altered and thus so, incorrect, and I will probably die.

That said, you still haven't answered the op's question. How would YOU lift a Model A with a 2-post lift? How would you remove the front or rear suspension without that lighweight frame crumbling from all that weight?
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