Babbitt bearing inserts

[Dave in MN]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Maybe we should let the Briggs & Stratton and Tecumseh engine folks know that because haven't they have been successfully using aluminum and splash oiling for quite a few decades now.

.

Aluminum is not a good bearing material for a splash system.

Yikes! I wish someone would have told me...as I have about 80 engines successfully running on aluminum lined AER bearings with gravity oil delivery.
Good Day!

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Dave in MN

Aluminum is not a good bearing material for a splash system.

Yikes! I wish someone would have told me...as I have about 80 engines successfully running on aluminum lined AER bearings with gravity oil delivery.
Good Day!

Again, people talking about something they do not have correct information or experience on.

Also, most splash systems achieve at least 40 lb per sq.in. oil pressure on the rods when running. Equal to what many modern cars run with pressure pumps.

[Duffy1]

Hardtimes;

Thanks for the response.Well I do not have full pressure or full oil filter system . I still have the splash system with one of those sometimes oil filters.I will keep my fingers crossed and not push the engine and hope she holds up.Or I could pull the engine and have it modified to full oil pressure with inserts in rods and inserts in mains and add a full filter oil system. I really hesitate doing this it has plenty of power and no vibration. This could fall in the category of "if it is not broke don`t fix it ". Do you know if you can still purchase triumph rod inserts?

[Dave in MN]

Originally Posted by Pete

Again, people talking about something they do not have correct information or experience on.

Also, most splash systems achieve at least 40 lb per sq.in. oil pressure on the rods when running. Equal to what many modern cars run with pressure pumps.

Pete...I spoke and repeated the quote in jest!
My point...the inserts are working fine with the non-pressurized system.


Good Day!

[MikeK]

Duffy1,
Triumph rod inserts are readily available. There is a huge collector base, complete with dedicated suppliers and their catalogs, just like SBC & Tri-chevys, VW beetles, & Fords, T, A, B, EV8. Here's one supplier: LINK

If you think things get a little 'hot' over here, you should see those Brittish car collector boys beat to death a fine point detail like which way the flats on a lug-nut should face.

[Pete]

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Originally Posted by Dave in MN

Pete...I spoke and repeated the quote in jest!
My point...the inserts are working fine with the non-pressurized system.


Good Day!

No sweat, I knew you jest.
I was just adding to the fire....lol

[Jim Huseby]

Not to get too far off topic, but in the 60's the Summers Brothers' streamliner with four Chrysler hemi's ran the aluminum rods (32 of them) directly on the crank with no inserts (with plenty of oil pressure). I have considered the advantage of them for the splash lubricated Model A because they would carry heat away from the bearing surface so much better than a steel rod with cast bearings or inserts. Even though they wouldn't be easily rebuildable, I wonder how they would hold up under heavy use compared to babbitt. The splash-lubricated aluminum rods running directly on the crank that Brent refers to are in engines that are governed to run about 3600 RPM. My 20 HP Briggs had NO wear on the splash-lubricated aluminum rods at over 7500 hours running at 3600 RPM when I pulled it down for inspection. There are several factors that I didn't mention concerning stresses and filtration.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by colin1928

I would like ask 1 of the Professionals here can you go back to Babbitt if you have had inserts in an engine ?
Or is the Babbitt thickness a problem
Colin

I can't speak for anyone else, But, Yes, if the rear slinger wasn't destroyed, or there was a way to fit a rear seal that didn't leak.

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Maybe we should let the Briggs & Stratton and Tecumseh engine folks know that because haven't they have been successfully using aluminum and splash oiling for quite a few decades now.

.

Small engines don't use Aluminum rods, they do use Aluminite, and then the bearing can run on a crank Pin.

Most Aluminite rods are stamped as such.

The difference between Aluminum and Aluminite, is like the difference between Lead and Tin Babbitt!

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by Pete

Again, people talking about something they do not have correct information or experience on.

Also, most splash systems achieve at least 40 lb per sq.in. oil pressure on the rods when running. Equal to what many modern cars run with pressure pumps.

Again, Aluminum can not run on a crank, unless it has inserts, not plain Aluminum!

[MikeK]

Aluminite was a trade moniker like 'Frigidare'. The name goes back to 1907 for cast pistons and rods. The alloy was the old Aluminum #12, an Alum/Silicon alloy similar to the modern day hypoeutectic 319 and 356 alloys. As a bearing material Alum/Silicon alloys are often acid etched on the contact surfaces to expose the extremely hard silicon crystal matrix within the dendrites. Mating iron or steel surfaces are typically nitrided or hard chromed.

As inserts, Aluminum alloys on steel shells are now in common use. Here are details, right from the horse's mouth: LINK Note that the surface is NOT shiny, it is matte from a final etch step. Also note in the description the "embeddability".

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by MikeK

Aluminite was a trade moniker like 'Frigidare'.

As inserts, Aluminum alloys on steel shells are now in common use.

Dammit Mike, I wish you would confusing all the 'Experts' with facts!!


.

[J and M Machine]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Maybe we should let the Briggs & Stratton and Tecumseh engine folks know that because haven't they have been successfully using aluminum and splash oiling for quite a few decades now.

.

Interesting assertion. Then please explain this to all of us.
Why is it that Ford didn't use them in Model A or GM or Chrysler?

Only under pressure systems as on the Federal Mogul website.
Also King Bearings.

Aluminum is a less expensive material compared to Babbitt and is readily available and has been in use since discovered in 1825.

Ford would of saved millions but chose babbitt, Why?

[hotrodA]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Dammit Mike, I wish you would stop confusing all the 'Experts' with facts!!


.

What they said^^^^^.
Thanks for the link to Moss's. They have a lot of good stuff.

Anybody care to do a post mortem on the insert bearings shown earlier?

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Kohnke Rebabbitting

Again, Aluminum can not run on a crank, unless it has inserts, not plain Aluminum!

If that is true, there at least 50 antique car engines out there still running with plain 6061T6 bar stock bearings running on plain steel cranks that should be told they can't do that....lol

[Mitch//pa]

The pop corn is served

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Just in case you missed that Mr. Nose, that is Aluminum Alloys, not Aluminum!

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by Pete

If that is true, there at least 50 antique car engines out there still running with plain 6061T6 bar stock bearings running on plain steel cranks that should be told they can't do that....lol

I don't know of even one!

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

Originally Posted by forever4

Gee, you better tell Bill Stipe to stop using his own all-aluminum inserts in his performance engines!

I fail to see what a hi performance engine has to do with a splash engine.

John Deere used Aluminum Alloy inserts in some of the last two cylinder tractors.

Not Aluminum, a Aluminum Alloy with Nickle in it.

I think you boys should put those Aluminum inserts in your Model A engines, it sure would be fine with me!

You would have Aluminum balls everywhere.

[roddyb34]

ouch,,,aluminium balls,,,,note how we aussies spell and pronounce aluminum differently,,,