Intro & Questions - '29 Special Coup

[cpf240]

Hi. I’m the new guy around here. I’ve been reading a lot of different topics in the Model A forum, and there is a lot of great information here.

My father bought this Model A from a farm in or near Iola Kansas some 30+ years ago. His father tore it down, and started to restore it. He used to work in one of the Ford factories, so was very familiar with these cars. Sadly, it got to about the point you see it in the pictures below, and then sat for 20+ years.

Now it is in my hands, and I’d like to get it running and driving again. The goal is a good, functional car, to be used for fun drives and maybe the occasional parade or local car show. This is not intended to be a garage queen, nor a points car.

It will run, and drive, once the junk is cleaned out of the carburetor. The fuel tank has some rust, and does plug the carburetor. At the moment, there is no sediment bulb, and I think one of those pencil filters on the fuel shutoff valve and a sediment bulb will take care of most of that issue. I’ll probably do one of those fill-shake-drain-filter-repeat processes I’ve read about, and watched the video of.

My uncle was doing some work on it, and had it running with an external tank. I’m told he put in a 12v coil and starter – no, the lights are not hooked up yet. When I got it, it was also connected for negative ground. My plan is to put it back to 6v positive ground. My father had wanted a rumble seat, so the trunk lid has been converted to open the other way. I’ll probably return it to a trunk, as I don’t know anyone that wants to ride back there, and I'm leaning more to keeping it reasonably original.

It is believed to be a ‘29 Special Coup (49a) but I can’t find a body number stamp on the cross member in front of the seat base. There does not appear to be a date stamp on the fuel tank. I don’t know if the frame number was verified to match the block, but I’m told the block number matches the previous owners title paperwork. The block number is *A1620XXX* .

Some questions for you all:

I’d like to confirm that it is a Special Coup – is it?

What carburetor is this? I can’t see any identifiers cast into it, but I haven’t removed it yet either.

I have the springs for the seat bottom, but they look pretty rusty and a bit, um… worn. I presume after market is the best bet? Any temporary seat suggestions to use until its time for an interior? The VW seat doesn’t cut it, and its not in much better shape than the factory seat springs I have.

Any comments or suggestions welcome, thanks!

[160B]

The carburetor is a Marvel Schebler.

here is one on eBay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marvel-Scheb...item2a7b01fea2

[CarlG]

Snyder's has the seat springs, or LeBarron-Bonney has the complete upholstered seat cushions (using Snyder's springs).

[Herb Concord Ca]

Yes it looks like a Special coupe, I hope you have the outside trim molding that goes around the sides and back to secure the vinyl. They will be hard to find if you don't.
Renner's Corner has all the parts for the Marvel carb, this is a very good after market carb.
Measure the coil primary resistance 6V is 1.5 ohms, 12V is 3 ohms. To check the starter, remove the band and look to see how many field coil arms are soldered to the big copper button, 2 for 6V and 1 for 12V.
Enjoy your project.

[Steve Plucker]

[QUOTE=cpf240;1429949]Hi. I’m the new guy around here. I’ve been reading a lot of different topics in the Model A forum, and there is a lot of great information here.

My father bought this Model A from a farm in or near Iola Kansas some 30+ years ago. His father tore it down, and started to restore it. He used to work in one of the Ford factories, so was very familiar with these cars. Sadly, it got to about the point you see it in the pictures below, and then sat for 20+ years.

Now it is in my hands, and I’d like to get it running and driving again. The goal is a good, functional car, to be used for fun drives and maybe the occasional parade or local car show. This is not intended to be a garage queen, nor a points car.

It will run, and drive, once the junk is cleaned out of the carburetor. The fuel tank has some rust, and does plug the carburetor. At the moment, there is no sediment bulb, and I think one of those pencil filters on the fuel shutoff valve and a sediment bulb will take care of most of that issue. I’ll probably do one of those fill-shake-drain-filter-repeat processes I’ve read about, and watched the video of.

My uncle was doing some work on it, and had it running with an external tank. I’m told he put in a 12v coil and starter – no, the lights are not hooked up yet. When I got it, it was also connected for negative ground. My plan is to put it back to 6v positive ground. My father had wanted a rumble seat, so the trunk lid has been converted to open the other way. I’ll probably return it to a trunk, as I don’t know anyone that wants to ride back there, and I'm leaning more to keeping it reasonably original.

It is believed to be a ‘29 Special Coup (49a) but I can’t find a body number stamp on the cross member in front of the seat base. There does not appear to be a date stamp on the fuel tank. I don’t know if the frame number was verified to match the block, but I’m told the block number matches the previous owners title paperwork. The block number is *A1620XXX* .

Some questions for you all:

I’d like to confirm that it is a Special Coup – is it?

What carburetor is this? I can’t see any identifiers cast into it, but I haven’t removed it yet either.

I have the springs for the seat bottom, but they look pretty rusty and a bit, um… worn. I presume after market is the best bet? Any temporary seat suggestions to use until its time for an interior? The VW seat doesn’t cut it, and its not in much better shape than the factory seat springs I have.

Any comments or suggestions welcome, thanks![/QUOTE}

Welcome to the barn. Yes, it is a Special Coupe it is either a 1928 or 1929. If the back lower outside left side of the body rear cross sill has three holes, then it is a 1928...if not it is a 1929. The three holes are for the attachment for the rear light bracket. About February/March 1929 the holes were removed and the bracket was attached to the left fender.

Sometimes the body codes were not there nor were gas tank dates although it is kind of nice if they were.

Not sure of the carburator.

I think going back to a trunk is a great idea...In 1979, I converted my September 1929 Standard Coupe to a rumble seat thinking I could take all my friends for rides...Well, two years ago I put it back to a trunk as that was the way it was originally as with your Special Coupe.

On my website I have a 3 part article on converting a rumble seat to a trunk...check it out.

Study up on your car and ask more questions. Join one or two National Modle A Clubs and IF there is a local club in your area, wherever you are, join that to.

Pluck

[jm29henry]

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Welcome ,I wish you great success with your project

[Dave in MD]

Welcome to the barn and being a Special Coupe owner. As others have said it is a Special Coupe that Ford made from July 10th 1928 to July of 1929. It replaced the Standard Coupe during that time period. The telltale sign is the recessed area behind the quarter window that takes a molding to separate the the sheet metal form the top material. This molding is a two piece steel molding. The Specials also have a two piece steel belt rail molding that goes from the rear of the door on one side across the back to the rear of the door on the other side. The belt rail moldings were used on the 1928.9 Special. Sport and Business Coupes. Engine number A1620XXX would have been stamped on May 23rd or 24th 1929 at the Rouge plant
I have a 1928 Special Coupe and if you have any additional questions, please don't hesitate to ask.
Regards,
Dave

[cpf240]

Thank you all for the prompt responses and greetings!

First of all Pluck, the taillight is attached to the fender, and with the engine stamping info from Dave, I think it is solidly in the '29 production timeline.

Dave, my uncle has several boxes of parts, and manuals, documents, etc, that my dad collected. He will be shipping that to me soon. I expect the trim pieces you and Herb mentioned will be in with them.

Thank you 160B and Herb for the info on the carb. As there is lots of dust around here, I think I'll be adding one of the aftermarket air filters.

Carl, I've read lots of threads/posts going back and forth on the Snyder vs everyone else springs. I do think that is what I will end up doing, but I'm reluctant to put money into the seat when it is not ready for an interior. I'd hate to have a new seat get all torn up while all the other work is going on!

[KansasRick]

Another good idea is to see if there are any model A car clubs in your area. This is a fantastic resource for a new guy. You say the car came from the Iola, Ks area. Are you still near there? I know you said that was 30 years ago your grandpa got the car. There are many Model A guys in that area of Emporia, Topeka, Iola, Fort Scott, KC and Wichita. The SunFlower Swap Meet was just over the first weekend of February. Several good clubs and swap meet events in this area. Good luck.

[cpf240]

Rick -

No, I'm in the Far North of Idaho. My father bought the car from a guy on a farm in KS, and had it shipped to CA. There, my grandfather tore it down and got it pretty much to where it is now.

There is a local car club, and I know a guy down the road a bit that can probably guide me to the right people. I looked for chapters of one of the bigger clubs, but there are none near here.

Thanks!

[cpf240]

Pluck -

Lots of great information on your site. I found the articles on the trunk/rumble seat and will look into them further. I had read somewhere that there is a floor pan or something that needs to be changed, and I'll have to read up on that. I don't know if it had been changed on this one.

Thanks!

[29spcoupe]

I have a 29 Special Coupe and have many pictures that were taken during the restoration. If you have any questions, I would be happy to try to answer them. John

[1929]

I found that many love riding in my rumble seat of my Special Coupe.

[cpf240]

Originally Posted by 29spcoupe

I have a 29 Special Coupe and have many pictures that were taken during the restoration. If you have any questions, I would be happy to try to answer them. John

I would love to see those! Right now though, I'm waiting for the boxes of parts, manuals, etc. that my uncle is shipping up here. Once I have that, I'll have a better idea of what I don't know...

[Steve Plucker]

Are you near Sandpoint, Idaho?

I know a great Model A guy there.

Pluck

[cpf240]

Originally Posted by Steve Plucker

Are you near Sandpoint, Idaho?

I know a great Model A guy there.

Pluck

I'm about an hour North of Sandpoint. Go through there on our resupply runs to CostCo!

[KenCoupe]

It seems just about everybody that has a coupe has the rumble seat. I have the original trunk on my 31 Deluxe Coupe. When I bought the car, I thought I would convert to a rumble seat, but I really like the functionality of the trunk, and it probably isn't too safe to have people ride in a rumble seat. I rode in a rumble seat once and it was not very comfortable. My advice/opinion is to change back to a trunk. I think you will like it.

I believe the floor pan is the same for the trunk and rumble seat. but the rear curved panel has to be changed. In addition to Steve's excellent instructions, Mike's AFordable has an article on how to convert from trunk to rumble seat. It can probably be used in reverse to change from rumble to trunk. It also lists parts needed for the conversion.

[1930artdeco]

Welcome to the club and enjoy your new found friend. It is great that you are keeping the car in the family! Here is a suggestion for a temp seat, mattress springs. Tear one apart and cut it down. Then cover it up. Down reasonably well it will hold you until you decide to do a full interior.

Mike

[Special Coupe Frank]

Welcome, CPF20 !

I too have a Special Coupe.

Another great resource on this forum is "Farrell in Vancouver", he has done a ground-up resto on his Special Coupe.

Looks like a good start on yours.

[cpf240]

A small update:

The car had both a 12v and a 6v battery sitting in it. The 12v was hooked up as negative ground. My uncle put in the 12v battery and coil - I verified 3 ohm - because he felt it was struggling to crank on 6v. I pulled both batteries to charge.

I wanted to put it back to positive ground, but had to read up on the conversion as I expected to need a starter. Well, no worries there. I do know I'll need to verify the coil is connected properly.

However, in doing this research I found out that the generator needs to be flashed. No problem. But... I also read that the generator should not be run while it is disconnected. Can you guess the next part? This generator has not been connected in 30 years or so!

Now I have to say that the wiring was never finished. Even the ignition switch is bypassed. Just enough wiring to start it. Now to read up on testing generators.

My uncle had said junk in the fuel tank plugged the carb. I pulled it off today, and didn't see anything right away. Then I pulled the top off of it. Hmm, lots of white powder in the bowl, but no sign of red rust flakes or particals. I think it is time to rebuild this carb.

I found the thread detailing this carb, and really appreciate the time that went into that post. I know where to get the rebuild kit, or where to send it in to be rebuilt. What I'm not sure of is how to adjust it when I'm done.

What I'd like to know is, is it a good method to soak it in a 50/50 mix of water and vinegar for a few hours? Also, the screw under the bolt on the bottom of the carb for the main jet is stuck. I'm hoping a good soaking will get it loose.

It is also missing the correct inlet fitting with the attached filter screen. I have been unable to find a replacement for it. There are some parts carbs for sale that may have it, but that's a gamble.

That's all for now. All comments, suggestions, etc appreciated!

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by cpf240

A small update:

The car had both a 12v and a 6v battery sitting in it. The 12v was hooked up as negative ground. My uncle put in the 12v battery and coil - I verified 3 ohm - because he felt it was struggling to crank on 6v. I pulled both batteries to charge.

I wanted to put it back to positive ground, but had to read up on the conversion as I expected to need a starter. Well, no worries there. I do know I'll need to verify the coil is connected properly.

However, in doing this research I found out that the generator needs to be flashed. No problem. But... I also read that the generator should not be run while it is disconnected. Can you guess the next part? This generator has not been connected in 30 years or so!

Now I have to say that the wiring was never finished. Even the ignition switch is bypassed. Just enough wiring to start it. Now to read up on testing generators.

My uncle had said junk in the fuel tank plugged the carb. I pulled it off today, and didn't see anything right away. Then I pulled the top off of it. Hmm, lots of white powder in the bowl, but no sign of red rust flakes or particals. I think it is time to rebuild this carb.

I found the thread detailing this carb, and really appreciate the time that went into that post. I know where to get the rebuild kit, or where to send it in to be rebuilt. What I'm not sure of is how to adjust it when I'm done.

What I'd like to know is, is it a good method to soak it in a 50/50 mix of water and vinegar for a few hours? Also, the screw under the bolt on the bottom of the carb for the main jet is stuck. I'm hoping a good soaking will get it loose.

It is also missing the correct inlet fitting with the attached filter screen. I have been unable to find a replacement for it. There are some parts carbs for sale that may have it, but that's a gamble.

That's all for now. All comments, suggestions, etc appreciated!

Welcome!! Seems like you have a handle on things. Did the Generator spin with engine running? There should have been a melt down if the Gen was working and the pulley spun as the battery is the real regulator when using a generator.

Have you decided on 12 OR 6 volts?

And this thread may help with carb adjustments, Carb adjustments

Do you have any books yet?

[Barry B./ Ma.]

Good luck on your Special coupe, as you can see in my avitar I have one that I restored in 1980 . Mine has the trunk and most Special coupes came that way, I find it very handy compared to the rumble seat when you want to carry things. I have a good idea that solved the problem of the missing belt rail trim if you want to PM me. The brass trim piece bought from universal Tire duplicates the original moulding in looks. You have a good looking project there, good luck. Barry

[JohnLaVoy]

Welcome to the hobby. it looks like you are taking a real interest in the car. I hope you have looked into a local chapter, they usually have folks that share your interest and have lots of recommendations on where to find stuff etc. Bert's in Denver CO area is a good parts source for original parts and Arizona Model A in Chandler AZ also has lots of original parts both also sell reproductions so you can get both from them. Snyder's you were refereed to and Bratton's is another excellent choice. Hope to see you at a Model A event soon, there is a lot of fun to have in the hobby so get involved and go on a tour!

[rocket1]

Looks great,needs a little bit,many of started with a lot worse.

[cpf240]

Originally Posted by rocket1

Looks great,needs a little bit,many of started with a lot worse.

Well, it *was* a lot worse. My dad sent me some pictures from back when she first arrived. This was back in 1978, I hadn't realized how long he has had this car!

[Tom Wesenberg]

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If the generator has been run for more than a couple minutes while not connected to the battery, it most likely is burned up. It's so easy to just run a jumper wire from the cutout to the starter switch, if need be. The way to save a generator, when not connected to a battery, is to ground the output stud on the generator. This will keep the output at 0 so it can't cook the wires inside.

[cpf240]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

If the generator has been run for more than a couple minutes while not connected to the battery, it most likely is burned up. It's so easy to just run a jumper wire from the cutout to the starter switch, if need be. The way to save a generator, when not connected to a battery, is to ground the output stud on the generator. This will keep the output at 0 so it can't cook the wires inside.

Well, I've no idea how much run time it has had while disconnected. I know it has been driven around a parking lot a time or two, and probably idled a bit.

When grounding it out, does the wire run from the terminal on the cutout, or does the cutout need to be removed?

If I take a chance on it and hook the cutout to the starter switch, is there a chance that if it is fried, it will cause a short, or other issues beyond just not charging?

Assuming it is fried, how big a job is it to repair/rebuild?

[cpf240]

Got some time to fiddle around with the car today.

First up was to drain the coolant - not sure what it was, but it was a bit milky and there might have been some oil in there. I'm hoping it is just something left over from whatever work was done on it years ago, though the #3 & 4 plugs are rusty on the threads and tips. No sign of water on the dipstick. I'm hoping the worst case is a head gasket.

I poured in a 50/50 mix that should keep things happy until the temps warm up around here. Pulled the plugs, sprayed fogging oil in the cylinders and spun the engine a bit in the hopes that that would circulate the coolant a bit.

While the coolant was draining, I decided to ground out the generator, on the off chance that maybe it will still work one day. I went from the output stud to one of the cutout mounting screws, which I think should do the job.

At some point I went inside and ordered a rebuild kit for the carburetor from Renners. Nice folks to talk to, and lots of knowledge.

Lastly, I pulled some miscellaneous bits and pieces out of the trunk/rumble seat area. So far, I've identified the following:

2 battery hold down brackets
1 hand crank / lug wrench
2 door window anti-rattle strips
2 pieces of trim for the top
1 metal part that seems to go above the dash panel

Not sure on the other bits. Any ideas? What is the bracket/hinge piece for?

I also found the wood frame for the bottom of the seat. Yay! Another question I have is that the wood frame for the seat back doesn't seem to align properly with the L brackets at the bottom. The metal part that the L brackets are attached to seems to be loose, so perhaps it is not installed properly, or is just sitting there. I do have the tabs at the top of the frame slotted into the wood piece in front of the package shelf.

Also got notice today that more parts for/from this car will be shipped to me shortly. Can't wait to see what arrives.

[Tom Wesenberg]

You should see 3 holes in the header for the mirror bracket to attach to.

Do you have the dealer's parts catalogs? They can be a big help in matching up parts.

[cpf240]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

You should see 3 holes in the header for the mirror bracket to attach to.

Do you have the dealer's parts catalogs? They can be a big help in matching up parts.

So that bracket thingy is for the mirror, awesome!

My father had collected some reference materials, and I'm waiting for them to arrive so I don't duplicate anything. The Bratton's catalog has been very helpful so far, and a few others are on their way.

Thanks!

[cpf240]

I've received a few boxes of various parts, both old and new. After a lot of searching through the Bratton's and Snyder's catalogs and websites, plus other vendors sites, I have some parts I can't identify. There is a good chance they don't even belong to this car. Any help identifying these would be greatly appreciated!

I don't have a parts book yet, and have been told that even they don't show images of all the parts. Can someone recommend one that does?


Edited to remove two identified parts. Thanks to Tom and RJV.

[Tom Wesenberg]

The switch would be some aftermarket part for fog lights, electric fan, etc, or someone may have used it as an ignition switch if they didn't have to worry about theft.

[cpf240]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

The switch would be some aftermarket part for fog lights, electric fan, etc, or someone may have used it as an ignition switch if they didn't have to worry about theft.

Thank you!

I'm looking at my options. I'd love to have it be original, but that looks expensive. For a occasional use, no show car, I think I'll target the middle of the road after market switches.

I need to find a speedo as well, as it seems most places want a core, which I don't have. I'll check the ads here, and then maybe that evil auction site..

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by cpf240

...I need to find a speedo as well, as it seems most places want a core, which I don't have. I'll check the ads here, and then maybe that evil auction site..

Check with PapaNick over on the Swap Meet. He doesn't always require a core.

Also, if you do buy one on eBay, count on it being only a core.

The voice of experience talking here!

[cpf240]

Originally Posted by CarlG

Check with PapaNick over on the Swap Meet. He doesn't always require a core.

Also, if you do buy one on eBay, count on it being only a core.

The voice of experience talking here!

I was just looking at those, thanks!

[Randy in ca]

Picture #3 (top right in post #31) appears to be a rear spare tire carrier brace. See pictures about half way down in this link from Vince Falter's site:

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/trunkconstruction.htm

-

[cpf240]

Originally Posted by Randy in ca

Picture #3 (top right in post #31) appears to be a rear spare tire carrier brace. See pictures about half way down in this link from Vince Falter's site:

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/trunkconstruction.htm

-

Thank you for the link, that does indeed look like the part I have. Looking through various catalogs and sites, I wasn't able to find an exact match. Given that this car was in the process of changing the stock trunk to a rumble seat, that is probably what it is.

[Dave in MD]

Picture number one has the two braces that go from the wood in the B pillar to the belt rail wood. I agree with Randy on picture number three. Picture number six might be an exhaust tip but not used on a Model A originally. The other items I do not recognize.
Dave

[cpf240]

Originally Posted by Dave in MD

Picture number one has the two braces that go from the wood in the B pillar to the belt rail wood. I agree with Randy on picture number three. Picture number six might be an exhaust tip but not used on a Model A originally. The other items I do not recognize.
Dave

Thank you! Now I know where to focus my searches. I don't suppose you know the part number for those two braces? They don't seem to match any items on Bratton's or Snyder's sites, or a few others I've checked.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Pictures in #31, notice the hood bracket (anti-rattler) with the missing rubber in my picture.

[cpf240]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Pictures in #31, notice the hood bracket (anti-rattler) with the missing rubber in my picture.

Yes sir, I do... on my car, the rubber is missing as well. The part that is about that shape in my pictures is a whole lot bigger, if that is the one you were referring to.