The Ford Barn

bigdaddy3 · 01-14-2013, 11:54 AM

I have a 1955 Customline with a 272 Fordomatic. I am going to be putting a rebuilt 292 in place of the old/original 272. The block is from 1960 and the intake and heads are from a 1957.

My question is this: Are the motor mounts different on a 1960 292 engine block and a 1955 272 engine block?

I have a newer Fordo that came with the engine that is being rebuilt. I am assuming it is at least from 1957, where as mine is the original from 1955.

I am going to have the newer of the two Fordos checked out and use it. The one in the car now is an air cooled torque converter. Looks like by 1957 the weren't air cooled anymore.

Am I going to run into any issues?

I need a new radiator correct? One that has a tank in the bottom to run lines to and from for the cooling of torque converter.

Anyone got any advice? Red flags? Cautions?

thanks very much. love all the help on here.

JeffB2 · 01-14-2013, 01:40 PM

You can still use your stock radiator and add this:http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bmm-70268/overview/ I recommend this because the stack design is better construction and resistant to road debris,you will be connecting direct to the transmssion with this model.Mounts should work fine.My cooler is mounted behind the grille in the space between the pass side bumper guard and turn signal on the splash pan.

CarlG · 01-14-2013, 04:31 PM

What Jeff says -- When I put a C6 in my 71 F100, I made a transmission cooler out of the little radiator off of a discarded deep freeze unit. Worked wonderful. Keeps the transmission from heating up your engine coolant.

Hot Rod Reverend · 01-14-2013, 07:15 PM

A 292 will fit in that engine bay and you won't be able to tell the difference from the exterior appearance. All 239 and 256 and 272 and 292 and 312 share the same bolt "bosses" for the engine mounts on the side of the block, even the block was originally in a truck... they were all cast that way. (The trucks use the front timing cover mount and the bellhousing with ears though)

You can use your old motor mounts if they are ok.

Where you are probably going to have trouble is with the "newer" fordomatic. 57's and up may need a different transmission mount (IIRC, that crossmember is different for 57 because the trans casing is a little different... It gets more fun the more you go with different casings, although the bellhousing is typically not a problem.) I would highly suggest that you get the measurements for the mount on that fordo so that you can make a good comparison. Depending on what someone else has already done, you may get lucky and that thing might drop right in. While you are at it, check the spline count and the overall length too!

let us know how it goes!

Daves55Sedan · 01-14-2013, 09:44 PM

The 292 will drop right in. Use your old motor mounts.
You will need to use the flexplate for the later Ford-o-matic.
You will need to make up cooling lines and add an auxillary cooler mounted in front of the existing radiator (or modify your bottom radiator tank with a cooler in it).
You should be able to re-use your existing driveshaft front yoke as the splines should be the same.
'57 and later Ford-o-matics should mount right up to the original '55 frame crossmember (But maybe not if you have a cruise-o-matic/Merc-o-matic)
With the exception of the radiator, it should be a simple swap

Paul H · 01-15-2013, 10:45 AM

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57 and newer FOMs have a finer spline out put shaft.You'll need to swap the yoke on the driveshaft .The later transmission drives the speedometer the opposite direction,so you'll have to to swap the drive gear on the output shaft and the extension housing from the older FOM.The mounts are all the same.

bigdaddy3 · 01-15-2013, 05:08 PM

Sounds like the engine should be fairly easy, but the transmisson could pose a problem. I guess I'll measure everything that is on the car now and get back on here with those. Hard telling what's going on under their. I was told that 55 272's should have had the liquid cooled trans, not the air cooled jobby I've got.

Thanks very much. Be back with more info.

bigdaddy3 · 01-15-2013, 05:10 PM

How can I tell what year the "newer" trans is from? I am not even sure what year it is from. I know for sure the heads and intake are from 57 and the block is from 60 by the codes. There is a tag on the trans, but i havent found a way to see what year it is actually from.

raceron1120 · 01-15-2013, 05:55 PM

Put the trans tag #s out here, maybe somebody can decipher them for you.

Paul H · 01-15-2013, 10:11 PM

All car FOMS were air-cooled until mid-March of 56.Your 55 272 would have come from the factory with an air-cooled transmission.

bigdaddy3 · 01-16-2013, 01:31 PM

Here is the best I have right now.

Ole Don · 01-16-2013, 02:51 PM

The motor mounts shown are used in all passenger cars so far as I know. If old, or oil soaked, the rubber can come loose from the steel. The left side likes to tear loose on hard acceleration. Anyone thinking of racing should consider this; I bought new ones, and did this, drill two 5/16 holes through both steel and rubber, front to rear in the picture above. Insert good grade eight bolts but leave the nuts 1/4 turn loose so the rubber can move, but double nut them. The rubber still has room to move, but if the MM breaks the motor wont try to climb out of the engine bay.

raceron1120 · 01-17-2013, 10:46 AM

Here is the ID info from the parts book. That tag # picture is hard to read so maybe this will help:

Y-Blockhead · 01-17-2013, 11:40 AM

Well about the only thing we can say for certain from your pictures is that it is NOT a two speed.

By the tag it appears to be a '58 up. Can't really tell by the numbers as they are unreadable. Best to get someone in your area that is familiar with the Ford-o/FX transmissions to look at it.

See if you can decipher the numbers and check either this chart or the one Ron posted.

bigdaddy3 · 01-18-2013, 07:48 AM

Thanks for the pages of codes. I tried cleaning the tag, which seems to be 58 or later and can't get anything more from it.

I've attached two pics from number cast onto trans.

It looks like PAK - 7006 - D to me.

Could be PAH or PAW also. Definently a 7006 D though.

Also, there are 14 bolts on the pan.

Now I'm really confused.

Y-Blockhead · 01-18-2013, 11:02 AM

Can you get a straight on picture of the pan? Sometimes the shape may give us a clue.

Motorhead6 · 02-05-2013, 06:16 PM

I've been runnig the air cooled FOM behind a 312 in my '55 for 6 years with absolutely no problems and I live in Fl; drive it like I stole it.

If you want to water cool it, take your radiator to a radiator shop and have them install a cooling line and fittings into the lower tank. I did this to my '51 with and AOD. Not expensive and looks factory.

01-14-2013, 11:54 AM	#1
bigdaddy3 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Baltimore Posts: 25	1960 Engine block into a 1955 car? I have a 1955 Customline with a 272 Fordomatic. I am going to be putting a rebuilt 292 in place of the old/original 272. The block is from 1960 and the intake and heads are from a 1957. My question is this: Are the motor mounts different on a 1960 292 engine block and a 1955 272 engine block? I have a newer Fordo that came with the engine that is being rebuilt. I am assuming it is at least from 1957, where as mine is the original from 1955. I am going to have the newer of the two Fordos checked out and use it. The one in the car now is an air cooled torque converter. Looks like by 1957 the weren't air cooled anymore. Am I going to run into any issues? I need a new radiator correct? One that has a tank in the bottom to run lines to and from for the cooling of torque converter. Anyone got any advice? Red flags? Cautions? thanks very much. love all the help on here.

01-14-2013, 01:40 PM	#2
JeffB2 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Phoenix,AZ Posts: 1,417	Re: 1960 Engine block into a 1955 car? You can still use your stock radiator and add this:http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bmm-70268/overview/ I recommend this because the stack design is better construction and resistant to road debris,you will be connecting direct to the transmssion with this model.Mounts should work fine.My cooler is mounted behind the grille in the space between the pass side bumper guard and turn signal on the splash pan.

01-14-2013, 04:31 PM	#3
CarlG Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 9,115	Re: 1960 Engine block into a 1955 car? What Jeff says -- When I put a C6 in my 71 F100, I made a transmission cooler out of the little radiator off of a discarded deep freeze unit. Worked wonderful. Keeps the transmission from heating up your engine coolant. __________________ Alaskan A's Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska Model A Ford Club of America Model A Restorers Club Antique Automobile Club of America Mullins Owner's Club

01-14-2013, 07:15 PM	#4
Hot Rod Reverend Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lancaster, CA Posts: 917	Re: 1960 Engine block into a 1955 car? A 292 will fit in that engine bay and you won't be able to tell the difference from the exterior appearance. All 239 and 256 and 272 and 292 and 312 share the same bolt "bosses" for the engine mounts on the side of the block, even the block was originally in a truck... they were all cast that way. (The trucks use the front timing cover mount and the bellhousing with ears though) You can use your old motor mounts if they are ok. Where you are probably going to have trouble is with the "newer" fordomatic. 57's and up may need a different transmission mount (IIRC, that crossmember is different for 57 because the trans casing is a little different... It gets more fun the more you go with different casings, although the bellhousing is typically not a problem.) I would highly suggest that you get the measurements for the mount on that fordo so that you can make a good comparison. Depending on what someone else has already done, you may get lucky and that thing might drop right in. While you are at it, check the spline count and the overall length too! let us know how it goes! __________________ Lancaster, California Visit hotrodreverend.com to view hundreds of pictures and videos of the build of the 1955 Ford Club Sedan!

01-14-2013, 09:44 PM	#5
Daves55Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Granite City, Illinois Posts: 3,008	Re: 1960 Engine block into a 1955 car? The 292 will drop right in. Use your old motor mounts. You will need to use the flexplate for the later Ford-o-matic. You will need to make up cooling lines and add an auxillary cooler mounted in front of the existing radiator (or modify your bottom radiator tank with a cooler in it). You should be able to re-use your existing driveshaft front yoke as the splines should be the same. '57 and later Ford-o-matics should mount right up to the original '55 frame crossmember (But maybe not if you have a cruise-o-matic/Merc-o-matic) With the exception of the radiator, it should be a simple swap

01-15-2013, 10:45 AM	#6
Paul H Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Boonville MO Posts: 104	Re: 1960 Engine block into a 1955 car? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) 57 and newer FOMs have a finer spline out put shaft.You'll need to swap the yoke on the driveshaft .The later transmission drives the speedometer the opposite direction,so you'll have to to swap the drive gear on the output shaft and the extension housing from the older FOM.The mounts are all the same. __________________ Paul H.

01-15-2013, 05:08 PM	#7
bigdaddy3 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Baltimore Posts: 25	Re: 1960 Engine block into a 1955 car? Sounds like the engine should be fairly easy, but the transmisson could pose a problem. I guess I'll measure everything that is on the car now and get back on here with those. Hard telling what's going on under their. I was told that 55 272's should have had the liquid cooled trans, not the air cooled jobby I've got. Thanks very much. Be back with more info.

01-15-2013, 05:10 PM	#8
bigdaddy3 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Baltimore Posts: 25	Re: 1960 Engine block into a 1955 car? How can I tell what year the "newer" trans is from? I am not even sure what year it is from. I know for sure the heads and intake are from 57 and the block is from 60 by the codes. There is a tag on the trans, but i havent found a way to see what year it is actually from.

01-15-2013, 05:55 PM	#9
raceron1120 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ellsworth Michigan Posts: 1,807	Re: 1960 Engine block into a 1955 car? Put the trans tag #s out here, maybe somebody can decipher them for you.

01-15-2013, 10:11 PM	#10
Paul H Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Boonville MO Posts: 104	Re: 1960 Engine block into a 1955 car? All car FOMS were air-cooled until mid-March of 56.Your 55 272 would have come from the factory with an air-cooled transmission. __________________ Paul H.

01-16-2013, 02:51 PM	#12
Ole Don Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St. Michael, Minnesota Posts: 1,713	Re: 1960 Engine block into a 1955 car? The motor mounts shown are used in all passenger cars so far as I know. If old, or oil soaked, the rubber can come loose from the steel. The left side likes to tear loose on hard acceleration. Anyone thinking of racing should consider this; I bought new ones, and did this, drill two 5/16 holes through both steel and rubber, front to rear in the picture above. Insert good grade eight bolts but leave the nuts 1/4 turn loose so the rubber can move, but double nut them. The rubber still has room to move, but if the MM breaks the motor wont try to climb out of the engine bay.

01-17-2013, 10:46 AM	#13
raceron1120 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ellsworth Michigan Posts: 1,807	Re: 1960 Engine block into a 1955 car? Here is the ID info from the parts book. That tag # picture is hard to read so maybe this will help: Last edited by raceron1120; 01-17-2013 at 11:03 AM.

01-17-2013, 11:40 AM	#14
Y-Blockhead Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 5,849	Re: 1960 Engine block into a 1955 car? Well about the only thing we can say for certain from your pictures is that it is NOT a two speed. By the tag it appears to be a '58 up. Can't really tell by the numbers as they are unreadable. Best to get someone in your area that is familiar with the Ford-o/FX transmissions to look at it. See if you can decipher the numbers and check either this chart or the one Ron posted. Last edited by Y-Blockhead; 01-17-2013 at 11:49 AM.

01-18-2013, 11:02 AM	#16
Y-Blockhead Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 5,849	Re: 1960 Engine block into a 1955 car? Can you get a straight on picture of the pan? Sometimes the shape may give us a clue.

02-05-2013, 06:16 PM	#17
Motorhead6 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Orange Park, Fl Posts: 406	Re: 1960 Engine block into a 1955 car? I've been runnig the air cooled FOM behind a 312 in my '55 for 6 years with absolutely no problems and I live in Fl; drive it like I stole it. If you want to water cool it, take your radiator to a radiator shop and have them install a cooling line and fittings into the lower tank. I did this to my '51 with and AOD. Not expensive and looks factory.