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Old 05-04-2018, 04:57 PM   #1
fastroadster
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Question Starter problems

I've replaced my starter,solenoid, fuse holder..... but can't get it to turn over. Pulled checked starter it was fine, rebuild solenoid (then bought new one) while I was at it replaced fuse holder. Thought it might be hanging up pulled and replaced starter four times. Put in third gear rocked it back and fourth... don't know...... What do you guys think. Thanks any help would be appreciated.
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Old 05-04-2018, 05:08 PM   #2
Bob C
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Default Re: Starter problems

Since you have a solenoid we need more information such as how it's wired.

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Old 05-04-2018, 05:46 PM   #3
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Default Re: Starter problems

Time to break out your meter. Very simple to isolate that way.
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Old 05-04-2018, 05:47 PM   #4
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Default Re: Starter problems

I said solenoid, its stock. I not sure what you call it. It is what you push down with your foot to activate the starter. I'm stumped....
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Old 05-04-2018, 06:13 PM   #5
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Default Re: Starter problems

Maybe the pinion is jammed in the ring gear. Try putting the car in gear and rocking it back and forth listening for it to disengage. Check the simple, easy things to fix first.
After that, break out the meter as has been sugggested/ check brushes/ commutator/ connnestions etc
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Old 05-04-2018, 06:46 PM   #6
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Do your lights work?? If they do turn them on and try the starter and see if the light dim.

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Old 05-04-2018, 06:51 PM   #7
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Default Re: Starter problems

yes, lights work. Checked that. I'm sure it's hung up, but pulling it on and off four times. Its getting old.
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Old 05-04-2018, 06:53 PM   #8
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Default Re: Starter problems

Doing it my self and its hard to hold up the starter and start the bolts. I wonder if I'm getting the bendix in crooked. Wish I had someone to hold it up to start those bolts.
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Old 05-04-2018, 07:44 PM   #9
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Default Re: Starter problems

Check the starter mounting bolts, they should only be 1" long.

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Old 05-04-2018, 07:58 PM   #10
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Default Re: Starter problems

They are the "stock" bolts that came out. Only problem with the old starter was the Bendix was chewed up as I was running 12v on 6v starter. Now I have a 12v starter and new bendix. Been running the same old starter for years.
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Old 05-05-2018, 05:23 AM   #11
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Default Re: Starter problems

If this all started with the starter replacement I would suspect that the bendix is wrong. With the starter off, check to see that the bendix moves forward (toward the housing) when powering up the starter. Not sure what you mean by "running the same old starter for years" yet you are now a 12 volt starter or 12 volt battery? If battery was changed to 12 volts make sure your polarity is correct.

John

Last edited by aermotor; 05-05-2018 at 05:31 AM.
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Old 05-05-2018, 09:02 AM   #12
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Default Re: Starter problems

What happens when you push the foot starter switch? Anything? Nothing? Any noise at all?

When removing the starter, first remove the top bolt, replace it with a headless bolt, then remove the other 2 bolts and slide the starter out. Reverse procedure for installing, leaving the first 2 bolts slightly loose before removing the headless bolt.
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:17 PM   #13
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Default Re: Starter problems

When I push the starter switch... nothing. Nothing changed except for starter. Been running 12v for years but upgraded to 12v starter. Still stumped???
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:19 PM   #14
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Have a friend coming over tomorrow to give me a hand. Hopefully we can figure out this damn thing.........LOL
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Old 05-05-2018, 01:15 PM   #15
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Default Re: Starter problems

With the starter removed check to see if the ring gear on the flywheel has moved forward away from the stop. If it has a temporary fix is to take a drift and tap it back against the stop while rotating the engine. It is only a temporary fix as each time the car is started the starter wants to pull the ring gear forward and it will move off the stop again.


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Old 05-05-2018, 04:07 PM   #16
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Default Re: Starter problems

ring gear walked a little a
couple of years ago.... thanks Tom will check it again tomorrow.
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Old 05-05-2018, 11:47 PM   #17
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Default Re: Starter problems

That foot starter switch pushes a copper strip inside the starter switch that contacts with a button on the starter. I believe you said you replaced that starter switch on top of the starter. Did you notice if the button was clean? I had the button get some corrosion on it and when I pushed the foot switch, I got no response - the starter/engine would not turn over. After I cleaned the button under the starter switch, no more problems. This is likely not the problem, but it is something you can check if you are still pulling your hair out.
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Old 05-05-2018, 11:55 PM   #18
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Default Re: Starter problems

Yea Ken, I rebuilt the starter switch by cleaning the strip with a dremel. Then I thought I would replace it, so I did. No difference.......... and also cleaned the button with steel wool. Still no luck..
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Old 05-06-2018, 12:15 AM   #19
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Default Re: Starter problems

How are you checking the starter
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Old 05-06-2018, 12:48 AM   #20
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Default Re: Starter problems

Can you hand crank the engine?
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Old 05-06-2018, 05:46 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastroadster View Post
ring gear walked a little a
couple of years ago.... thanks Tom will check it again tomorrow.
Many times as a youngster I can remember the old timers staking the ring gear.
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Old 05-06-2018, 09:02 AM   #22
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Default Re: Starter problems

Quote:
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How are you checking the starter
It almost sounds like your new starter is NG, DOA.
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Old 05-06-2018, 12:39 PM   #23
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Default Re: Starter problems

Hi Guys.......... The Model A fairy must have showed up last night. My buddy came over this morning, and before we started to pull the starter off for the umtenith time. He said try starting it again before we pull it off. I said Ok knowing it wouldn't work and the sucker fired up like a brand new Model A..... Go figure. So we had a nice cup of coffee and conversation and I'm going to go out for a cruise along the Ocean. Thanks everybody for the moral support.
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Old 05-07-2018, 07:19 AM   #24
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Default Re: Starter problems

So what happened? Did it fix its self?
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Old 05-07-2018, 07:24 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastroadster View Post
Hi Guys.......... The Model A fairy must have showed up last night. My buddy came over this morning, and before we started to pull the starter off for the umtenith time. He said try starting it again before we pull it off. I said Ok knowing it wouldn't work and the sucker fired up like a brand new Model A..... Go figure. So we had a nice cup of coffee and conversation and I'm going to go out for a cruise along the Ocean. Thanks everybody for the moral support.
Does the Model A fairy guarantee quality and dependability of the repair?
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Old 05-07-2018, 02:01 PM   #26
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So far truck is running like a champ........ don't know what to say.
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Old 05-08-2018, 08:03 AM   #27
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Keep an eye on things, this could be a new concept for the auto makers;
self repairing cars. I wonder if that concept could be patented?
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Old 05-08-2018, 08:30 AM   #28
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Default Re: Starter problems

Three things to check and report back, is the engine free? Turn over by hand. Your ring gear in the correct position in relation to the flywheel > Not pulled forward. Post a photo of the bendex, is it possibly the new style that has a full shroud around the spring, I'v found they don't fit correctly and don't allow enough free space for the clearance to the ring gear. Does the starter motor when tested out of the engine? have you installed the foot switch correctly? Report back FRANK PKNY
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Old 05-09-2018, 10:22 PM   #29
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Default Re: Starter problems

Hi Frank, yes engine was free, hand crank, ring gear in position. Bendix is one of the new style which I just replaced. Starter worked great off car, but as soon as I bolted it up to engine it would do NOTHING. I rocked in back and fourth in gear. Rebuilt foot switch, looked like new one I got done.... but went ahead and replaced it as well as fuse holder? The fairy came through...... I don't know
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Old 05-10-2018, 07:54 AM   #30
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Default Re: Starter problems

Could be a crappy ground - how much rust and or paint do you have between starter case and flywheel housing?

I can guarantee this problem will come back if it magically started working. Electrical problems hardly ever fix themselves for the long road. Better update your AAA card :P
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Old 05-10-2018, 11:49 AM   #31
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Default Re: Starter problems

I still believe it is your starter switch. To check, take off the switch and jump directly to the copper button. If the starter engages, it is the switch. Use the cable coming from your car battery. That way you are checking two things, cable and switch.
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Old 05-10-2018, 07:45 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by SeaSlugs View Post
Could be a crappy ground - how much rust and or paint do you have between starter case and flywheel housing?

I can guarantee this problem will come back if it magically started working. Electrical problems hardly ever fix themselves for the long road. Better update your AAA card :P
Agree with everything you said. I’m thinking ground.
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Old 05-10-2018, 07:50 PM   #33
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Default Re: Starter problems

OK, will check all grounds. The starter switch is new, I "rebuilt" old switch... don't think that was ever the problem
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Old 05-10-2018, 10:10 PM   #34
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OK, will check all grounds. The starter switch is new, I "rebuilt" old switch... don't think that was ever the problem
I think most will be fine. I’d just look at what fordfixer says, the mount flange of starter and bell house. It was workin fine before right.
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Old 05-11-2018, 06:36 AM   #35
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Default Re: Starter problems

Did you check the starter for rotation with the onboard battery or with a different battery. Did you load test the battery? What type of post connectors do you have on your cables? You can perform a load test on the system with all parts assembled. Starter amperage draw can also be checked with the system assembled.
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Old 05-11-2018, 09:56 AM   #36
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Default Re: Starter problems

DANGER, Fairies can be FICKLE, mine keeps hiding my PIZZA CUTTER!
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Old 05-11-2018, 01:24 PM   #37
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Default Re: Starter problems

I still think you may have a bad connection at the battery. On several occasions, I've had a no start condition, where the battery cable is nice and tight to the post, but not making a good enough electrical contact to run the starter. So, other electrical things work, but press the starter and nothing happens. I've tried wiggling the battery cables, and they seem very tight when this occurred. I'd pull the cables off the battery, clean both the battery terminals and cable ends, and reinstall them. There is an excellent chance this will fix your problem for good. (At least until the next corrosion episode.). Oh, and this can also occurred at the other end of the battery cables, but is usually at the battery.

Whatever, it's all good...

PS. Last week Elvira's starter failed to work, and I found the brushes were too tight in the brush holders, and we're binding up. After they wore down to a certain point, they lost contact with the armature, so the starter would not run. I ground a tiny bit off the sides of the brushes so they slide easily, and now all is well. Probably a bad batch of brushes had been installed at some point, slightly oversized.

Last edited by Corley; 05-11-2018 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 05-11-2018, 01:28 PM   #38
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Default Re: Starter problems

The model a doesn't have a great ground path from battery to engine block. The factory splash pans were a engine to frame ground connection and since most are missing it goes thru the front engine mount, armored cable, spark advance rods, driveshaft, brake rods pedals, etc. Rear mounts and bolts are technically isolated in rubber.

Best to add a braided wire from engine to frame rail. People use one of the trans to flywheel housing bolts as a good solid connection to the engine. I used 2 smaller cables from old splash pan mount holes to both sides of the oil pan bolts. (one braided wire on drivers, one on pass) blends right in in plain sight and 99% of the public would never suspect a thing.

Loose or poor grounds cause weird stuff to happen. Poor grounds also will allow some amperage to flow (like headlights brakelights etc) but cannot pass the high amp draw of a stater. Loose battery connections are notorious for behaving like this especially on modern cars. bright lights radio turn key to run all the xmas lights come on go to start and absolutely nothing. release key all comes back.

yes what Corley said is also true. Also the cables can get corroded inside the crimp on either end but typically battery end (best to have crimped AND soldered battery connections) so the act of removing the cable or attempting to wiggle it can make just enough connection again to start.
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Old 05-15-2018, 06:09 AM   #39
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Default Re: Starter problems

On a non - Model A vehicle I had a post that was broken loose inside the battery. When shaking the cable clamp to remove I noticed that the terminal rotated and there was no contact. However, in a certain positions it made acceptable contact for use.

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