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Old 12-07-2021, 05:19 PM   #1
60Jaguar
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Question VIN and Engine Serial Number Location

I have a 1930 Model A (Modified) enclosed cab pickup with what I've been told is a Model B Engine carrying a Riley 2 Port head.
Am unable to locate either a frame VIN or an engine block serial number.
The truck is titled in California under number A3904113, which according to Les Andrews' volume 1 manual final page equates to manufacture of the engine in September 1930.
For forum member or two owners had said the chassis number is stamped on the upper surface of the frame rail under the driver's side body. Is that correct? If not, then where?
Any advice will be most welcome, where should I expect to find the chassis and engine numbers? Should engine and frame numbers have originally matched when leaving the factory?
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Old 12-07-2021, 05:36 PM   #2
Brentwood Bob
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Default Re: VIN and Engine Serial Number Location

Frame location behind rear motor mount about where number 2 body bolt is.body needs to be raised enough for a rubbing(lead pencil and paper works good). Frame number was stamped on the assembly line to match its engine number. Engine number was stamped, I believe after motor was assembled and run in at river rouge factory.
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Old 12-07-2021, 06:10 PM   #3
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Default Re: VIN and Engine Serial Number Location

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Originally Posted by Brentwood Bob View Post
Frame location behind rear motor mount about where number 2 body bolt is.body needs to be raised enough for a rubbing(lead pencil and paper works good). Frame number was stamped on the assembly line to match its engine number. Engine number was stamped, I believe after motor was assembled and run in at river rouge factory.
Many thanks for your speedy response. I will check as much as I am able without lifting the cab.
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Old 12-07-2021, 06:17 PM   #4
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Default Re: VIN and Engine Serial Number Location

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Originally Posted by 60Jaguar View Post
Many thanks for your speedy response. I will check as much as I am able without lifting the cab.
From experience, you will likely have to raise the cab up high enough and take the splash apron off to see the area on the top of the frame rail.
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Old 12-07-2021, 07:11 PM   #5
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Default Re: VIN and Engine Serial Number Location

http://jmodela.coffeecup.com/numbers.html
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Old 12-07-2021, 09:21 PM   #6
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Default Re: VIN and Engine Serial Number Location

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"B" Engines didn't have a serial number on them.
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Old 12-07-2021, 10:46 PM   #7
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Default Re: VIN and Engine Serial Number Location

Occasionally, a Model A will show up without the vin number stamped on the frame. Every so often, the assembly line missed stamping the frame. This did not happen very often, but it did happen. Hopefully, when you raise the cab and remove the splash apron, you will find numbers on the frame.

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Old 12-07-2021, 11:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: VIN and Engine Serial Number Location

Other than simple curiosity, I'm not sure why you care. And it's no small job to iift that cab and find that number. My engine was replaced as well, so the VIN that has been in use for 90+ years is no where to be found. I had the requisite VIN plate made and riveted it to the firewall. At least now I can show someone the VIN number.
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Old 12-07-2021, 11:31 PM   #9
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Default Re: VIN and Engine Serial Number Location

The “B” serial number was stamped on the bell housing…or so I have been told.
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Old 12-08-2021, 08:36 AM   #10
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Default Re: VIN and Engine Serial Number Location

Like Bruce mentioned, your engine probably was replaced at some time. If you have a clear title and plan to sell the vehicle you may want to leave well enough alone.
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Old 12-08-2021, 09:24 AM   #11
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Default Re: VIN and Engine Serial Number Location

In Texas, a pencil rubbing of the frame number is still good for verification for the purpose of title transfer. All states are different though. The serial number is needed for any verification and since the engine is a B series (has a fuel pump pad) then it wouldn't match for year of manufacture anyway. B engines were stamped on the clutch bell housing just behind the starter but that housing is likely long gone if it's in a model A.

If the frame has no number or the number there under the left front cowl doesn't match the title then there will be another problem. A person can generally get a title legally in any state to prove ownership but it may require a state assigned number and tag to display such or it may require some method that I can not recommend here. A judge of any states judicial branch can give a court ruling on ownership and legal documentation for about any tangible property that requires a title or registration. State DMVs also have procedures for such actions as a state assigned ID tag or an original frame stamping for the purpose of issuing a new title.

I've been involved with stuff like this on helicopters where the last registered owner has died and left no recourse for transfer of legal registration. If you think states are bad, wait till you have to deal with a Federal Government Agency such as the FAA.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 12-08-2021 at 09:31 AM.
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Old 12-08-2021, 01:26 PM   #12
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Default Re: VIN and Engine Serial Number Location

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Like Bruce mentioned, your engine probably was replaced at some time. If you have a clear title and plan to sell the vehicle you may want to leave well enough alone.
If I was buying a vehicle with a clear title I would check that the number on the title matches the number on the vehicle. If it didn't match, or couldn't be found I wouldn't buy the vehicle and would suggest that others do likewise.

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Old 12-09-2021, 12:01 AM   #13
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Default Re: VIN and Engine Serial Number Location

I'd make sure it DID have the VIN stamped in an appropriate location. If you are confident that the VIN on the title IS correct, and not fraudulent, you can stamp that number as many times as you want in whatever/wherever locations you choose.
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Old 12-09-2021, 09:04 AM   #14
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Default Re: VIN and Engine Serial Number Location

I wouldn't assume that DMV or state inspectors will accept stampings that are not in the correct location. I wouldn't recommend stamping anything without exhausting all other legal ways. This type of thing can get a person in serious trouble.
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Old 12-09-2021, 09:31 AM   #15
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Default Re: VIN and Engine Serial Number Location

See post #13 under "Engine Numbers Don't Match"

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Old 12-09-2021, 08:16 PM   #16
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Default Re: VIN and Engine Serial Number Location

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Originally Posted by Chris Haynes View Post
"B" Engines didn't have a serial number on them.
model B engines have the serial number on the top of the bell housing
but no way its going to help you with the car vin.
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Old 12-10-2021, 09:54 AM   #17
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Default Re: VIN and Engine Serial Number Location

On a Model A with a B engine the only number that matters is the number stamped on the frame under the body. Only exception would be a VIN assigned by the DMV and attached by the DMV. A VIN plate bought on the internet and attached to the body is not a legal VIN nor are numbers stamped on the frame that are visible without lifting the body. Should legal ownership ever become an issue the number on the title will have to match the factory number on the frame or there will be problems.
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Old 12-10-2021, 10:42 AM   #18
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Default Re: VIN and Engine Serial Number Location

[QUOTE=. Only exception would be a VIN assigned by the DMV and attached by the DMV. [/QUOTE]

No problem getting this done. This will become a titled VIN number. There will never be 2 VIN numbers the same in the USA, this is checked before the DMV issues a VIN number. Did it with ease. Once again VIN trumps all other numbers. John

Last edited by aermotor; 12-10-2021 at 10:50 AM.
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