The Ford Barn

denns1989 · 01-23-2015, 08:51 AM

I searched & didn't find the info. I needed, this is a continuation of my earlier inquiry about bellhousing gaskets, which indicate they were made to possibly shim the transmission & clutch assembly...

I have an 8BA with a 10" clutch mated to an "early" 1934 toploader "18 case", I know that the practise was to "relieve" the bell housing to fit the larger clutch (the later toploaders were designed to come back straight & then round in for clearance) - My combination did work as this car was built in the early 60's & driven until 1970, I then got it running & drove it onto my hoist as well so I'm not asking if it will work or not, rather does anyone have suggestions on how to do it better using the same parts ?

This picture shows how the transmission "horn" was ground down.

And then the weights on the pressure plate were flattened...

And here is the new pressure plate for comparison...

My plan was to fit everything together & see if the weights need to be ground down... maybe that was a first attempt & then the transmission bell was ground out later - I would like to avoid grinding the weights down, but if that's what has to be done for this combo, so be it - I was hoping that the experts here might be able to shed some light on this.

Thanks in advance

Charlie ny · 01-23-2015, 09:23 AM

denns,
Do not grind the weights....get a 78 series case to make everything happy.
This is a BIG stretch but if that 10" pressure plate worked at one time MAYBE disc
wear is causing the weights to assume a different position. You'll end up hating
yourself if you add shims....blah blah blah........there is no shortage of good 78
series cases available on the Barn. In many instances a 48 series case can be prob-
limatic with a 10" clutch.
Charlie ny

JM 35 Sedan · 01-23-2015, 09:59 AM

X2 what Charlie said, however, I have always had good success using the '35 - '36 #48-xxxx cases with later '39 - ''48 gears and 10", and even up to 11" C&PP.

Mart · 01-23-2015, 10:05 AM

Setting it up statically will not allow for the weights wanting to move outboard (even if just a little bit) when the revs come up. If you want to use the old case, why not reuse the modified clutch cover? is there any reason to believe it is no good? Very often new is not better.

Mart.

denns1989 · 01-23-2015, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mart

Setting it up statically will not allow for the weights wanting to move outboard (even if just a little bit) when the revs come up. If you want to use the old case, why not reuse the modified clutch cover? is there any reason to believe it is no good? Very often new is not better.

Mart.

I am re-using the modified transmission case, when you say clutch cover, what are you referring to ? the pressure plate or transmission case ? I was going to replace the pressure plate, simply because I already have it apart...

Bruce Lancaster · 01-23-2015, 04:01 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

'35 was when the straight area of the case was added...11" clutch became available then."clutch cover" is slightly archaic term for pressure plate.

Bored&Stroked · 01-23-2015, 04:16 PM

Maybe another option is to go to a 9" clutch? A lot of us do this to help the engines rev faster anyway . . . and with a stock style engine, you'll not have an issue with the smaller surface area? Also, with the clutch fork weights being severely ground down with the current 10" clutch, I doubt it will have as much clamping force as a 9" that hasn't been mucked with.

No matter what path you take, have the pressure plate and flywheel balanced before you put it back together.

Seems to me, all you'd need to do is have the flywheel re-drilled.

Anybody else tried this?

Dale

Kahuna · 01-23-2015, 04:18 PM

Rather than make any changes, I suggest you obtain a Diaphram Pressure plate, as your flywheel is already drilled for a 10" clutch. Maybe no grinding needed at all

Bored&Stroked · 01-24-2015, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kahuna

Rather than make any changes, I suggest you obtain a Diaphram Pressure plate, as your flywheel is already drilled for a 10" clutch. Maybe no grinding needed at all

Question: Don't diaphragm pressure plates have a different bolt pattern than a Ford 'long' style? Not a big deal, but will probably need to have the flywheel redrilled.

All in all, I think a different pressure/clutch plate is the easiest 'solution' to the configuration.

B&S

Kahuna · 01-24-2015, 04:32 AM

No, B&S
I have one in my 32 and it has the same pattern as a long type. Bought it at my local NAPA store

Will Kimble · 01-24-2015, 08:08 AM

Get a 48 or 78 series transmission case.

denns1989 · 01-24-2015, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Maybe another option is to go to a 9" clutch? A lot of us do this to help the engines rev faster anyway . . . and with a stock style engine, you'll not have an issue with the smaller surface area? Also, with the clutch fork weights being severely ground down with the current 10" clutch, I doubt it will have as much clamping force as a 9" that hasn't been mucked with.

No matter what path you take, have the pressure plate and flywheel balanced before you put it back together.

Seems to me, all you'd need to do is have the flywheel re-drilled.

Anybody else tried this?

Dale

Quote:

Originally Posted by Will Kimble

Get a 48 or 78 series transmission case.

Okay, so my long range plan is to source a 48 or 78 series case with 9" clutch combo, unfortunately I just finished rebuilding my case, so I was looking for an easy solution (I know wishful thinking) :-) Thanks for the feedback, this whole flathead / toploader thing is new to me !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kahuna

No, B&S
I have one in my 32 and it has the same pattern as a long type. Bought it at my local NAPA store

This sounds like a decent soltution for my current situation, I assume you use the release bearing & clutch disc that is used on a regular "fly weight" pressure plate ? & then just use the different pressure plate - Do you know what year/model your pressure plate is originally for ? Make sourcing one easier for me - thanks in advance !

Bored&Stroked · 01-25-2015, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kahuna

No, B&S
I have one in my 32 and it has the same pattern as a long type. Bought it at my local NAPA store

Normally diaphram and Borg & Beck pressure plates have a GM or Chrysler bolt pattern. What he'll need to buy is known as a diaphram substitute pressure plate - these are designed to replace early Ford Long style clutches and will have the Long bolt pattern.

denns1989 · 01-25-2015, 08:39 AM

I was searching all over the internet, anyone have a part # for this type of pressure plate ?

Thanks in advance

Jeremy

Kahuna · 01-26-2015, 11:57 AM

For anyone interested and for Jeremy, the part is a Vapex part# CA0030. I think it is what we all used to call an "Auburn" clutch.

JSeery · 01-26-2015, 12:39 PM

That appears to be an 83-85 Ford Truck and Bronco pressure plate, correct?

Mart · 01-26-2015, 12:47 PM

Hey, I didn't put 2 and 2 together, I didn't realise this was the trans from Snoopy over on the hamb. Been following the resurrection. I'd still just bolt in the "previously enjoyed" pressure plate (yeah, "clutch cover" is an old fashioned expression).

Good luck with it.

Mart.

denns1989 · 01-26-2015, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

That appears to be an 83-85 Ford Truck and Bronco pressure plate, correct?

Yes & a pile of other Ford models, just have to watch out because they also used 11" clutch on some as well, here is a link for what the 10" looks like :

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...610&cc=1105760

I ordered a "dealer closeout" one for $30 (last one) on Rock Auto yesterday just to compare & have as an option. The "360030" is a common number, you can find uprated/racing etc. clutches using the same number...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mart

Hey, I didn't put 2 and 2 together, I didn't realise this was the trans from Snoopy over on the hamb. Been following the resurrection. I'd still just bolt in the "previously enjoyed" pressure plate (yeah, "clutch cover" is an old fashioned expression).

Good luck with it.

Mart.

Thought I recognized your avatar :-) Yes hopefully Snoopy will be going back together this coming weekend ! Might even get him fired up (again) by sunday afternoon.

JSeery · 01-26-2015, 01:33 PM

"Yes & a pile of other Ford models, just have to watch out because they also used 11" clutch on some as well, here is a link for what the 10" looks like :
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...610&cc=1105760"

Thanks for the update, think I will go with a 9 inch, should accelerate quicker, but still good information to have.

Mart · 01-26-2015, 01:34 PM

Make sure the fingers of the diaphragm don't close together and contact the inner part of the bearing carrier. You ought to be able to watch through the inspection hole and make sure all is well.

From the illustration the fingers appear to be curved, so hopefully they ought to be compatible with the flat face of the release bearing.

Mart.

01-23-2015, 08:51 AM	#1
denns1989 Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 45	8BA with early toploader "18" Case (32 -34) I searched & didn't find the info. I needed, this is a continuation of my earlier inquiry about bellhousing gaskets, which indicate they were made to possibly shim the transmission & clutch assembly... I have an 8BA with a 10" clutch mated to an "early" 1934 toploader "18 case", I know that the practise was to "relieve" the bell housing to fit the larger clutch (the later toploaders were designed to come back straight & then round in for clearance) - My combination did work as this car was built in the early 60's & driven until 1970, I then got it running & drove it onto my hoist as well so I'm not asking if it will work or not, rather does anyone have suggestions on how to do it better using the same parts ? This picture shows how the transmission "horn" was ground down. And then the weights on the pressure plate were flattened... And here is the new pressure plate for comparison... My plan was to fit everything together & see if the weights need to be ground down... maybe that was a first attempt & then the transmission bell was ground out later - I would like to avoid grinding the weights down, but if that's what has to be done for this combo, so be it - I was hoping that the experts here might be able to shed some light on this. Thanks in advance

01-23-2015, 09:23 AM	#2
Charlie ny BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,019	Re: 8BA with early toploader "18" Case (32 -34) denns, Do not grind the weights....get a 78 series case to make everything happy. This is a BIG stretch but if that 10" pressure plate worked at one time MAYBE disc wear is causing the weights to assume a different position. You'll end up hating yourself if you add shims....blah blah blah........there is no shortage of good 78 series cases available on the Barn. In many instances a 48 series case can be prob- limatic with a 10" clutch. Charlie ny

01-23-2015, 09:59 AM	#3
JM 35 Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland Posts: 10,858	Re: 8BA with early toploader "18" Case (32 -34) X2 what Charlie said, however, I have always had good success using the '35 - '36 #48-xxxx cases with later '39 - ''48 gears and 10", and even up to 11" C&PP. __________________ *John* *"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein*

01-23-2015, 04:01 PM	#6
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: 8BA with early toploader "18" Case (32 -34) Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) '35 was when the straight area of the case was added...11" clutch became available then."clutch cover" is slightly archaic term for pressure plate.

01-23-2015, 04:16 PM	#7
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,067	Re: 8BA with early toploader "18" Case (32 -34) Maybe another option is to go to a 9" clutch? A lot of us do this to help the engines rev faster anyway . . . and with a stock style engine, you'll not have an issue with the smaller surface area? Also, with the clutch fork weights being severely ground down with the current 10" clutch, I doubt it will have as much clamping force as a 9" that hasn't been mucked with. No matter what path you take, have the pressure plate and flywheel balanced before you put it back together. Seems to me, all you'd need to do is have the flywheel re-drilled. Anybody else tried this? Dale

01-23-2015, 10:05 AM	#4
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,754	Re: 8BA with early toploader "18" Case (32 -34) Setting it up statically will not allow for the weights wanting to move outboard (even if just a little bit) when the revs come up. If you want to use the old case, why not reuse the modified clutch cover? is there any reason to believe it is no good? Very often new is not better. Mart.

01-23-2015, 04:18 PM	#8
Kahuna Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NorCal Posts: 2,617	Re: 8BA with early toploader "18" Case (32 -34) Rather than make any changes, I suggest you obtain a Diaphram Pressure plate, as your flywheel is already drilled for a 10" clutch. Maybe no grinding needed at all

01-24-2015, 04:32 AM	#10
Kahuna Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NorCal Posts: 2,617	Re: 8BA with early toploader "18" Case (32 -34) No, B&S I have one in my 32 and it has the same pattern as a long type. Bought it at my local NAPA store

01-24-2015, 08:08 AM	#11
Will Kimble Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 165	Re: 8BA with early toploader "18" Case (32 -34) Get a 48 or 78 series transmission case.

01-25-2015, 08:39 AM	#14
denns1989 Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 45	Re: 8BA with early toploader "18" Case (32 -34) I was searching all over the internet, anyone have a part # for this type of pressure plate ? Thanks in advance Jeremy

01-26-2015, 11:57 AM	#15
Kahuna Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NorCal Posts: 2,617	Re: 8BA with early toploader "18" Case (32 -34) For anyone interested and for Jeremy, the part is a Vapex part# CA0030. I think it is what we all used to call an "Auburn" clutch.

01-26-2015, 12:39 PM	#16
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 8BA with early toploader "18" Case (32 -34) That appears to be an 83-85 Ford Truck and Bronco pressure plate, correct?

01-26-2015, 12:47 PM	#17
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,754	Re: 8BA with early toploader "18" Case (32 -34) Hey, I didn't put 2 and 2 together, I didn't realise this was the trans from Snoopy over on the hamb. Been following the resurrection. I'd still just bolt in the "previously enjoyed" pressure plate (yeah, "clutch cover" is an old fashioned expression). Good luck with it. Mart.

01-26-2015, 01:33 PM	#19
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 8BA with early toploader "18" Case (32 -34) "Yes & a pile of other Ford models, just have to watch out because they also used 11" clutch on some as well, here is a link for what the 10" looks like : http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...610&cc=1105760" Thanks for the update, think I will go with a 9 inch, should accelerate quicker, but still good information to have.

01-26-2015, 01:34 PM	#20
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,754	Re: 8BA with early toploader "18" Case (32 -34) Make sure the fingers of the diaphragm don't close together and contact the inner part of the bearing carrier. You ought to be able to watch through the inspection hole and make sure all is well. From the illustration the fingers appear to be curved, so hopefully they ought to be compatible with the flat face of the release bearing. Mart.