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Old 01-01-2021, 10:43 PM   #1
jquinlan
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Default Vintage tire balancer question

I acquired a vintage tire Balancer a couple years ago and about 100 pounds of lead weights in various sizes along with a few tools to tap them on the wheels or remove them.

I know some people are now using beads but I'm more interested in understanding the correct way to use this machine. Like what type of fluid should be in it and how much fluid should be in it. Is there a way to calibrate the machine to the pitch of the floor it's sitting on. And finally is it acceptable to use the type of lead weights that are tapped on the Model 'A' wheels or does everyone just use the stick on kind?

Anyone with experience using this type of balancer and anything good or bad to say about it would be appreciated? I attached 2 pictures of the one I have. Thanks
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File Type: jpg IMG_9344.jpg (34.4 KB, 86 views)
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Old 01-02-2021, 02:55 AM   #2
KR500
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Default Re: Vintage tire balancer question

I have a Micro balancer which uses the same type of top as your Blackhawk. I use automatic trans fluid in it such as Fomoco ATF. its good enough. If you are doing Model A wheels, the '28-'29 you may have trouble fastening the weights. The '30'31 wheels will accept the style you hammer on. I like to fasten the weights on the back side of the wheel. So for example with wheel sitting on the balance I will merely LAY the weights till I get the wheel to balance. Then I will take that weight, lets say 3 0zs. and split it, so 1 1/2 ozs and place them about 120 degrees spread from where you found the wheel the heaviest. so the heaviest , then 120 degrees from there a 1 1/2 oz knocked on and then 120 degrees opposite from the other heaviest side knock the second 1 1/2 oz weight. This is also the way I use a Snap On wheel balancer I have and it comes with a tool to split the weight each side of the heaviest.
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Old 01-02-2021, 07:51 AM   #3
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Default Re: Vintage tire balancer question

Quote:
Originally Posted by KR500 View Post
I have a Micro balancer which uses the same type of top as your Blackhawk. I use automatic trans fluid in it such as Fomoco ATF. its good enough. If you are doing Model A wheels, the '28-'29 you may have trouble fastening the weights. The '30'31 wheels will accept the style you hammer on. I like to fasten the weights on the back side of the wheel. So for example with wheel sitting on the balance I will merely LAY the weights till I get the wheel to balance. Then I will take that weight, lets say 3 0zs. and split it, so 1 1/2 ozs and place them about 120 degrees spread from where you found the wheel the heaviest. so the heaviest , then 120 degrees from there a 1 1/2 oz knocked on and then 120 degrees opposite from the other heaviest side knock the second 1 1/2 oz weight. This is also the way I use a Snap On wheel balancer I have and it comes with a tool to split the weight each side of the heaviest.
Thank you for the information, especially about the 28-29 wheels.

As I'm sitting here drinking my morning coffee I'm having trouble understanding the placement of the two 1.5 ounce weights from your example. It sounds like you're spreading the 3 oz weight to two 1.5 ounce weights so wouldn't it be 45 degree on each side of where you initially placed 3 ounces of weight to balance it? 120 degrees seems to be on the other side of the balance. I attached a very crude drawing of how I would place the two 1.5 ounce weights based on your suggestion. Is that what you were trying to convey?
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Old 01-02-2021, 07:58 AM   #4
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Default Re: Vintage tire balancer question

Ok I re-read your response again and you go 120 degrees from the "heaviest" side which in my drawing would be at the 180 degree point so 180-120=60 degrees and 180+120 = 300 degrees. So that's where the two 1.5 ounce weights would end up.
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Old 01-02-2021, 08:47 AM   #5
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Default Re: Vintage tire balancer question

The vintage tire balancer is a static balancer. What this means is that the wheel and tire are not moving and that the balancing is done in one plane. This works fine for skinny things like disks and early Model T wheels and tires. As the wheels got wider a dynamic balance was needed. For a wide wheel a weight may be needed on the outside of the wheel at 0 degrees and at the inside of the wheel at 180 degrees. Kind of like a crankshaft that does not have counterbalancing weights. Without a dynamic balance the tire may wobble. You will probably be able to get away with a static balance on a Model A wheel and tire, especially the 21 inch wheels, if there is no or very little dynamic unbalance.

When you balance the wheel and tire using your vintage balancer, start with one weight and place it on the wheel to bring the bubble to the center. If that is not enough weight, add another one or more close to the original one. If two weights are too much weight, you can separate then slightly which has the effect of reducing the balance weight. If you use the stick on weights, place then close to where you will be sticking them. You can put them on the back if you want but the more accurate location would be to split the weight front and back because that way you would not be introducing a dynamic unbalance.
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Old 01-02-2021, 10:25 AM   #6
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Default Re: Vintage tire balancer question

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I have a bubble balancer like post # 1 and use it for my daily drivers. When I buy new tires I make sure I mount them carefully by lining up the yellow dot on the sidewall to the valve stem. I then check the balance and many times a lead weight is barely required. The red and yellow dots on a sidewall is generally ignored by local tire shops because of the extra time required to carefully mount. Their expensive balancer offsets this laziness with extra weights.
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Old 01-02-2021, 11:20 AM   #7
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Default Re: Vintage tire balancer question

Some interesting information. I will probably make this balancer available at our garage meets to club members who feel the need to balance their tires so these tips are quite helpful and appreciated.
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Old 01-02-2021, 11:59 AM   #8
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Default Re: Vintage tire balancer question

Here are some directions courtesy of the Army.
https://www.liberatedmanuals.com/TM-...3-14-and-P.pdf
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Old 01-02-2021, 01:12 PM   #9
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Default Re: Vintage tire balancer question

Link won't come up??
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Old 01-02-2021, 05:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: Vintage tire balancer question

Don't know, it works for me.
Try this and go down to Department of the Army.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=bubble+tir...ns&t=h_&ia=web
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Old 01-03-2021, 12:46 AM   #11
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Default Re: Vintage tire balancer question

All great advice here. Yes putting the weight on the back of the rims is strictly cosmetic as guys don't like to take away from their nice wheels. It will affect dynamic balance. I don't like the stick on weights as they seldom stay stuck on. Back in the day weights were crimped onto the spokes similar to fishing weights out near the edge of rim. Straight wheels and spokes should first be addressed before worrying to much about balance.
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Old 01-03-2021, 07:56 AM   #12
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Default Re: Vintage tire balancer question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob C View Post
Here are some directions courtesy of the Army.
https://www.liberatedmanuals.com/TM-...3-14-and-P.pdf
Wow !! What a great resource. Thank you for this link.
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Old 01-03-2021, 08:57 AM   #13
Bob Bidonde
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Default Re: Vintage tire balancer question

I have a similar static wheel balancer. It works well, but on the Model "A", the hub caps need to be removed to use it. Taking off the hub caps is a no no on a Model "A." I also find the clip-on balance weights are difficult to find. Instead, I use this balancing technique.
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