The Ford Barn

stickshift · 01-23-2023, 01:29 PM

Howdy Folks, I'm now getting around to lubing all the zerks and trans/rear end oil changes, etc. A previous owner put an oil filtration system on and I noticed that the oil filter doesn't get warm after running 30 minutes. The filter looks old so it may be clogged? I saw a video on You Tube that if you poke a hole in the rubber diaphragm inside the filter, it will allow low pressure oil to go into the filter. I'm just afraid to let dirty oil seep back into the engine. Any thoughts? Thanks

alexiskai · 01-23-2023, 01:58 PM

It's kinda hard to tell from the photo, but it doesn't look like you have the oil sending line coming off the block above the oil pump. If that line wasn't installed then the filter is not getting any oil flowing into it, which would explain why it doesn't get warm.

The folk wisdom to puncture the anti-drainback membrane is not necessary. However I would suggest getting a new filter if you're going to work on it at all – no telling how old that one is or what's been done to it, especially if the previous owner failed to properly install the kit.

Here's a post with a similar kit, you can see the copper line coming into the fixture.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showp...85&postcount=1

stickshift · 01-23-2023, 02:21 PM

I drained the oil and removed the old filter since I was changing the oil anyway. Here's some pictures with the filter off, there is a tube running along the block.

Bob C · 01-23-2023, 02:47 PM

I would take the fitting out of the valve cover and make sure there is a hole in the gasket so the oil can enter the fitting.

alexiskai · 01-23-2023, 02:55 PM

That's interesting, I haven't seen one before with the intake line coming off the B valve cover like that.

stickshift · 01-23-2023, 08:10 PM

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I pulled off the oil tube and elbow fitting and there was oil in the tube. The old filter had oil in it too. I used a small screwdriver and pushed it in the fitting hole. There was a blockage but I don't know if it was gasket material, or carbon buildup. Got it all put back together with fresh oil and new filter and ran for 30 minutes. It didn't seem as warm as I would think it should be so I took it for a run. My driveway has a 20% grade for half a mile, all up hill. After doing that, it was warm to the touch, but not hot like the engine. Maybe I'm just not used to this kind of filtration. I know it's only a partial filtration so flow is very low compared to a fully pressurized filtration. I tend to over-think things so I'll let it go and check it the next oil change.

81ls1camaro · 01-24-2023, 12:41 PM

Even in a modern engine it takes a considerable amount of time for the oil to come up to temperature. At idle it may never reach operating temp. This is why Royal Purple told me not to run my vehicles in the winter unless I plan on driving a good distance. It creates more moisture than it removes, and I was one that ran my vehicles for 5 or 10 minutes in the winter to think I was keeping it from sitting so much.
The filters seem much hotter on more modern vehicles, but a new car runs at over 215 degrees coolant temperature, some model A fords never see 165 degrees at the coolant, let alone the oil.

mcgarrett · 01-24-2023, 04:41 PM

I've not seen any oil filter arrangement using an oil feed line from the valve cover either. With this current setup, I doubt if much oil is actually getting into and out of the filter. Since your engine is a Model B, it appears that the oil filter plumbing on your truck was set up to allow for clearance of the fuel pump, which sort of makes sense, but prevents any real oil pressure from getting to the filter as it should. I would think that since you are not using the fuel pump, you would get better results by moving the oil line to pick up pressurized oil from the hole in the passenger side of the block (which is now plugged) and plugging the current oil supply hole in the side of the valve cover. It should be an easy modification - you will probably need to get a slightly longer piece of tubing and new ferules to fit and make the appropriate bends. When you're done, I believe your oil filter system will function better.

Others might want to chime in with other opinions.

alexiskai · 01-24-2023, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgarrett

I've not seen any oil filter arrangement using an oil feed line from the valve cover either. With this current setup, I doubt if much oil is actually getting into and out of the filter. Since your engine is a Model B, it appears that the oil filter plumbing on your truck was set up to allow for clearance of the fuel pump, which sort of makes sense, but prevents any real oil pressure from getting to the filter as it should. I would think that since you are not using the fuel pump, you would get better results by moving the oil line to pick up pressurized oil from the hole in the passenger side of the block (which is now plugged) and plugging the current oil supply hole in the side of the valve cover. It should be an easy modification - you will probably need to get a slightly longer piece of tubing and new ferules to fit and make the appropriate bends. When you're done, I believe your oil filter system will function better.

Others might want to chime in with other opinions.

I had the same thought but my certainty is low because I’m unfamiliar with differences in the B engine’s plumbing.

stickshift · 01-24-2023, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 81ls1camaro

Even in a modern engine it takes a considerable amount of time for the oil to come up to temperature. At idle it may never reach operating temp. This is why Royal Purple told me not to run my vehicles in the winter unless I plan on driving a good distance. It creates more moisture than it removes, and I was one that ran my vehicles for 5 or 10 minutes in the winter to think I was keeping it from sitting so much.
The filters seem much hotter on more modern vehicles, but a new car runs at over 215 degrees coolant temperature, some model A fords never see 165 degrees at the coolant, let alone the oil.

This makes a lot of sense. modern vehicles are designed to run hotter due to emission mandates and tighter tolerances. I don't have any temp gauges on the Model AA truck, but I know it doesn't have a thermostat, which would probably cause it to run cooler at idle. Like I said before, I sometimes overthink things and considering this oil filtration add-on was probably installed over 20 years ago by the looks of it and the engine is still running nice with no smoke, there is no issue with the filtration setup.

stickshift · 01-24-2023, 05:21 PM

Just to be clear, this engine should be a Model AA engine. I checked the serial number and it was manufactured March of 1931, which is the same year as my AA truck. The fuel system is gravity feed. It does however, have a later cylinder head with a three bolt water pump. There is a large "C" casted on the top of the cylinder head which according to my research has the heart shaped chamber, slightly higher compression head.

alexiskai · 01-24-2023, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickshift

Just to be clear, this engine should be a Model AA engine. I checked the serial number and it was manufactured March of 1931, which is the same year as my AA truck. The fuel system is gravity feed. It does however, have a later cylinder head with a three bolt water pump. There is a large "C" casted on the top of the cylinder head which according to my research has the heart shaped chamber, slightly higher compression head.

Based on your photos in the original post, some prior owner replaced your original engine with a Model B engine. You can see the cover where the fuel pump is supposed to go, and there's no oil return tube like an A engine would have. The boss where the serial number is appears to have been ground flat and restamped, most likely with the original engine number.

stickshift · 01-24-2023, 06:19 PM

The engine number matches the serial number on the title. That's explains why the engine was re-stamped. I saw the blankoff on the side of the block but didn't know what if was for. I guess I'll have to start researching "B" engines now. The way the oil filtration is now just gets a gravity feed from the what collects in the valve cover from what I can see. I'll follow mcgarrett's suggestion and it should be better than what I have now. I've had the truck less than a month and every day is a new adventure. Thanks guys for helping me along my journey.

J Franklin · 01-24-2023, 07:51 PM

There should be pressure, albeit low, going to the filter. It should be readable.

stickshift · 01-24-2023, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgarrett

I've not seen any oil filter arrangement using an oil feed line from the valve cover either. With this current setup, I doubt if much oil is actually getting into and out of the filter. Since your engine is a Model B, it appears that the oil filter plumbing on your truck was set up to allow for clearance of the fuel pump, which sort of makes sense, but prevents any real oil pressure from getting to the filter as it should. I would think that since you are not using the fuel pump, you would get better results by moving the oil line to pick up pressurized oil from the hole in the passenger side of the block (which is now plugged) and plugging the current oil supply hole in the side of the valve cover. It should be an easy modification - you will probably need to get a slightly longer piece of tubing and new ferules to fit and make the appropriate bends. When you're done, I believe your oil filter system will function better.

Others might want to chime in with other opinions.

I looked for this "pressurized" oil hole on the passenger side of the block and only saw a flat blade screw with a locking nut straight up from the drain plug in the pan. It looks like a pressure adj. screw. Is this the one mcgarrett is refering to? Thanks.

alexiskai · 01-24-2023, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stickshift

I looked for this "pressurized" oil hole on the passenger side of the block and only saw a flat blade screw with a locking nut straight up from the drain plug in the pan. It looks like a pressure adj. screw. Is this the one mcgarrett is refering to? Thanks.

It's this guy right here (see photo). It opens to the oil path just above the pump.

Tbh, I'd feel more comfortable if someone would weigh in here who has experience using a bypass filter like this on a Model B engine. The oiling system on the B is different. Before I made a change I would want to confirm I wasn't messing something up.

stickshift · 01-24-2023, 10:54 PM

yes, that's the one I'm talking about. It has a set-screw and a lock nut inserted. I suppose that if I remove it and put in a fitting, it would have full flow. I'm with you on the confirmation, there's no hurry.

J Franklin · 01-25-2023, 12:13 AM

On a model A it would go to the orifice shown in post #16. You have a bypass filter. It may be plumbed to work on your B engine correctly. Unscrew the filter and have sombody crank the engine and see if oil spews out.

stickshift · 01-25-2023, 01:57 PM

I followed JFranklin's suggestion and pulled the new filter I put on two days ago and I drained 12 oz. of oil out of it. The oil was pretty dark, really black for being two days old. I guess the dipper sumps tainted the new oil, although the dipstick oil looks clean. At least I know oil was flowing into the filter. Then I cranked the engine with ignition off and after 10 sec. a fast drip/slow trickle came out of the filter housing hole. I guess it works? Here's a picture of the pick-up tube and screw I was talking about. I'm tempted to pull the screw out and see if it's a flow adjustment.

5lugnuts · 01-26-2023, 04:00 PM

Your filter has two drains and no feed. You have one drain to the valve chamber and one drain to the timing gear. You have no pressure flow through the filter. What you mentioned as a flow adjustment screw is actually the pressure flow from the oil pump (oil feed) it should go to your filter.

Bob C · 01-26-2023, 04:32 PM

That is not a drain to the valve chamber it is a feed from the oil passage that
supplies oil to the main bearings.

01-23-2023, 01:58 PM	#2
alexiskai Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Mebane NC Posts: 2,350	Re: 1931 AA oil filter It's kinda hard to tell from the photo, but it doesn't look like you have the oil sending line coming off the block above the oil pump. If that line wasn't installed then the filter is not getting any oil flowing into it, which would explain why it doesn't get warm. The folk wisdom to puncture the anti-drainback membrane is not necessary. However I would suggest getting a new filter if you're going to work on it at all – no telling how old that one is or what's been done to it, especially if the previous owner failed to properly install the kit. Here's a post with a similar kit, you can see the copper line coming into the fixture. https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showp...85&postcount=1

01-23-2023, 02:55 PM	#5
alexiskai Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Mebane NC Posts: 2,350	Re: 1931 AA oil filter That's interesting, I haven't seen one before with the intake line coming off the B valve cover like that.

01-23-2023, 08:10 PM	#6
stickshift Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2023 Location: Grass Valley, Ca Posts: 246	Re: 1931 AA oil filter Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I pulled off the oil tube and elbow fitting and there was oil in the tube. The old filter had oil in it too. I used a small screwdriver and pushed it in the fitting hole. There was a blockage but I don't know if it was gasket material, or carbon buildup. Got it all put back together with fresh oil and new filter and ran for 30 minutes. It didn't seem as warm as I would think it should be so I took it for a run. My driveway has a 20% grade for half a mile, all up hill. After doing that, it was warm to the touch, but not hot like the engine. Maybe I'm just not used to this kind of filtration. I know it's only a partial filtration so flow is very low compared to a fully pressurized filtration. I tend to over-think things so I'll let it go and check it the next oil change. __________________ Stickshift 1915 Model T touring 1931 Ford Model AA Flatbed

01-24-2023, 12:41 PM	#7
81ls1camaro Member Join Date: Jun 2022 Posts: 58	Re: 1931 AA oil filter Even in a modern engine it takes a considerable amount of time for the oil to come up to temperature. At idle it may never reach operating temp. This is why Royal Purple told me not to run my vehicles in the winter unless I plan on driving a good distance. It creates more moisture than it removes, and I was one that ran my vehicles for 5 or 10 minutes in the winter to think I was keeping it from sitting so much. The filters seem much hotter on more modern vehicles, but a new car runs at over 215 degrees coolant temperature, some model A fords never see 165 degrees at the coolant, let alone the oil.

01-24-2023, 04:41 PM	#8
mcgarrett Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Waxahachie, Texas Posts: 949	Re: 1931 AA oil filter I've not seen any oil filter arrangement using an oil feed line from the valve cover either. With this current setup, I doubt if much oil is actually getting into and out of the filter. Since your engine is a Model B, it appears that the oil filter plumbing on your truck was set up to allow for clearance of the fuel pump, which sort of makes sense, but prevents any real oil pressure from getting to the filter as it should. I would think that since you are not using the fuel pump, you would get better results by moving the oil line to pick up pressurized oil from the hole in the passenger side of the block (which is now plugged) and plugging the current oil supply hole in the side of the valve cover. It should be an easy modification - you will probably need to get a slightly longer piece of tubing and new ferules to fit and make the appropriate bends. When you're done, I believe your oil filter system will function better. Others might want to chime in with other opinions.

01-24-2023, 06:19 PM	#13
stickshift Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2023 Location: Grass Valley, Ca Posts: 246	Re: 1931 AA oil filter The engine number matches the serial number on the title. That's explains why the engine was re-stamped. I saw the blankoff on the side of the block but didn't know what if was for. I guess I'll have to start researching "B" engines now. The way the oil filtration is now just gets a gravity feed from the what collects in the valve cover from what I can see. I'll follow mcgarrett's suggestion and it should be better than what I have now. I've had the truck less than a month and every day is a new adventure. Thanks guys for helping me along my journey. __________________ Stickshift 1915 Model T touring 1931 Ford Model AA Flatbed

01-24-2023, 07:51 PM	#14
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,959	Re: 1931 AA oil filter There should be pressure, albeit low, going to the filter. It should be readable.

01-24-2023, 10:54 PM	#17
stickshift Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2023 Location: Grass Valley, Ca Posts: 246	Re: 1931 AA oil filter yes, that's the one I'm talking about. It has a set-screw and a lock nut inserted. I suppose that if I remove it and put in a fitting, it would have full flow. I'm with you on the confirmation, there's no hurry. __________________ Stickshift 1915 Model T touring 1931 Ford Model AA Flatbed

01-25-2023, 12:13 AM	#18
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,959	Re: 1931 AA oil filter On a model A it would go to the orifice shown in post #16. You have a bypass filter. It may be plumbed to work on your B engine correctly. Unscrew the filter and have sombody crank the engine and see if oil spews out. Last edited by J Franklin; 01-25-2023 at 12:24 AM.

01-26-2023, 04:00 PM	#20
5lugnuts Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Clermont in Central Florida Posts: 111	Re: 1931 AA oil filter Your filter has two drains and no feed. You have one drain to the valve chamber and one drain to the timing gear. You have no pressure flow through the filter. What you mentioned as a flow adjustment screw is actually the pressure flow from the oil pump (oil feed) it should go to your filter.