Now What

[Richard in Anaheim CA]

I replaced a broken starter bendix spring a while back and solved a problem.

I drove into the garage a couple of weeks ago and when I tried to start it a week later I got a thump instead of a start. I put the charger on the battery and was rewarded with another thump. OK the starter is "Jammed". I tried to rock the car to break it loose, I invited about half a dozen big guys over to rock it. It wouldn't budge.

Today I removed the starter. It came out easily but the engine still would
not turn over either rocking the car in gear or with the crank or with a brass drift punch on the flywheel ring gear.

Before I drop the pan or pull the engine, has anyone else had a problem like this or suggestion of a less aggressive approach to diagnosing this problem?

Richard
Anaheim CA

[Kurt in NJ]

Take out the spark plugs, perhaps coolant is in a cylinder

[BrianH]

Did a Bendix bolt fall out of the starter and jam the flywheel?

[Benson]

For Folks that read this thread in the future and do not know about broken starter Bendix BOLTS problem:

When ever a starter bolt or spring breaks it is always a good idea to remove broken bolt and pieces from flywheel housing BEFORE starting the engine after the repair.

One of many possible results, is if it jams at high RPM (like when going over a bump), sometimes the flywheel housing can be broken when bolt jams.

[ronn]

make sure you used the correct length bolts in the proper holes........

[Ray64]

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Im with #4 on the starter bolt jamming the flywheel

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Richard, if I am understanding you correctly, the engine was in a 'running & driving' condition a week ...and prior to that you replaced a broken Bendix spring. As Brian is alluding to above, I also suspect there is something that has jammed between the ring gear and the flywheel housing.

My suggestion is, -first, I guess you need to determine how much of a 'gambler' you are. It is possible that rocking the vehicle with the transmission in high gear will dislodge it HOWEVER it is also possible to crack the flywheel housing trying to dislodge it. If you dislodge it, are you lucky enough to be able to retrieve it with a magnet, and set of finger grippers, or maybe grease on the flywheel?? (I'm generally not that fortunate or that lucky! )

If it was me, I think I would remove the rear axle assemble, then the transmission and have a look see as I think it is faster (-and easier) to get to the flywheel area that way vs. removing the hood, radiator and finally the engine.

[Oldbluoval]

Been there, done that!
Wouldn’t it have been great if Henry had put an inspection plate at the bottom of the housing?
Oh well…that was then, now is now. Couldn’t expect every situation!

[Big hammer]

Remove the spark plugs and try turning the motor backwards with the crank pulley nut, or putting it in low gear and pushing backwards, or putting in reverse and pushing forward. If that doesn’t happen go at it by rear end removing transmission removing. Don’t drop the engine oil pan, nothing in there that will help ( hopefully you where just upset)

[Bob Bidonde]

After you get the engine free, deep-six the Bendix and install a modern starter drive unit. Good luck getting it unstuck. There are some suggestions above.
If the Bendix you have taken out is all intact, the problem might be a bolt or Bendix part from a previous failure. Try easy fixes first.

[Richard in Anaheim CA]

Thanks for the responses. I wanted to let you know I'm going to let her sit for a while and think about it for a while. I have a spare Model A or 2 and enough other problems to keep me out of trouble for a wile.

1. There is no coolant in the cylinders
2. The starter and bendix is in fine shape since I fixed it.
3. When the bendix spring broke the bold was still captive so not in the housing
4. Yes the engine was running fine with no noises when I parked it last.
5. Yes I probably broke the housing. We really shook it.
6. I can't use all the fish and retrieve any part that is in the housing because it is jammed tight
7. I have used the "modern" tractor bendix replacement and won't do that again.
8. I have removed engines and I have removed rear ends and it's debatable which is best.That is why I am going to turn my thoughts to something else for a while.
A wee bit of scotch on ice comes to mind.

Thanks guys,
Richard

[Tom Endy]

Richard:

Check that the starter ring on the flywheel has not walked forward and jammed the flywheel. Reproduction flywheel ring gears do not fit tight. Best to have them pinned to the flywheel when installing one. Jim Nichols' shop can do that for you.

Make sure the three starter bolts are the correct length 3/8-16X 1", if too long they will jam the flywheel.

Tom Endy

[31 Woody]

You had Scotch? Geez, you only offered us a box of donuts for coming over to help rock it for you last Saturday. I feel cheated.

[ModelA29]

Originally Posted by 31 Woody

You had Scotch? Geez, you only offered us a box of donuts for coming over to help rock it for you last Saturday. I feel cheated.

Where is the "like" button?
PS - you can keep the ice.

[Dan1929]

I have had this happen on 2 different cars and we had to push them backwards while someone holds the clutch in while in third gear then let it out fast.

[john charlton]

Worth a shot ,remove the radius bushing setup and pull the a frame down . You will see the felt block it is secured by the cross pin . Remove the cross pin and the felt block should be able to be moved to one side or removed . You then might be able to see


any bendix debris in the hole and maybe remove some. The only downside is that you might not be able to refit the felt block . You will have to refit the cross pin so the bolts wont revolve when you put the ball cap setup back . The felt is to lubricate the radius cap with oil that has leaked from the rear main bearing . You can refit a new felt block when you do your next clutch job anyway . I have had good success using a very powerfull magnet on a wand down the starter motor hole and was very surprised at how many bendix bolts, washers etc I retrieved .

John in sunny but cold at night Chandler AZ .

[Jim Brierley]

Pull the engine, install your Burtz engine, problem solved!

[Benson]

About getting parts out of Flywheel housing:

1. If engine is a Model A with Model A oil pan, flywheel housing and model A transmission then engine must be removed

EDITED added BLUE TEXT after the word removed

OR transmission, whichever is your favorite method of getting into flywheel housing.

Unless Post #16 above works for you!


2. If engine is Model B AND oil pan (un modified B oil pan) and transmission are Model B then removing the oil pan WILL allow the removal of broken parts from flywheel housing because the bottom of Model B flywheel housing is attached to B oil pan.

3. Also some model B oil pans (like this one) have an access hole in bottom of flywheel housing where parts can be removed if they are not jammed against flywheel upper or lower housing.

[amclass]

What does the cotter pin at the bottom hole actually do? I have it on my A engine as well and have seen it on other engines too. Couldn't find an answer in "Model A for dummies" ...

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Benson

About getting parts out of Flywheel housing:

1. If engine is a Model A with Model A oil pan, flywheel housing and model A transmission then engine must be removed.

Unless Post #16 above works for you!

Why does the engine need to be removed?

While that definitely a way of doing it, from my experience it is much faster to remove the Rear End over removing the Engine. Especially if it is a nice car where there is the potential for scratching paint. Even the Ford Repair Charges booklet listed changing (Removing & Replacing) an Engine at a cost of $8.00 and changing (R&R-ing) the Rear Axle at $4.00. Add the Transmission R&R once the axle assembly is out, and you are around $6.00 vs. $8.00.