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Old 06-16-2021, 03:08 PM   #1
Garcia
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Default I'm not a Model A person

Thanks to all the people who helped me with my engine problem, but I've come to the conclusion that I'm just not a Model A person. There are too many variables, and I can't keep up with them all.

My last old car was a 1952 Buick. I had to do a lot of work on it, but once I had the brakes finished, I could drive it all around for a hundred miles at a time with no problems and without being part of an organized tour. My friend has a 1956 Cadillac, and he spends his time driving it rather than working on it. That's the way I would like it.

I hadn't thought about it before, but some people like owning a car that requires membership in a club, and some people like just owning a car. I'm in the latter group.

Thanks again for all your help, and if anybody's interested in a 1931 Deluxe Roadster, let me know.
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Old 06-16-2021, 03:27 PM   #2
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

Well I definitely understand your position as I have known others like yourself in a similar scenario. The likely issue is you purchased a car that you were told was Restored, however in reality, it probably wasn't, ...and now that is affecting your joy. You must remember however, the Model-A was VERY reliable when it was new, ...and can be when it is properly and thoroughly restored to be like it was when new. A 1956 Cadillac can be a unreliable car just like a worn Model-A can, ...so it really isn't that you aren't a Model-A guy, its more than you are a poor soul that was mislead on what you were purchasing. None the less, best wishes and hopefully you will find a better quality vehicle to enjoy.
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Old 06-16-2021, 03:29 PM   #3
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

That’s why there is a menu at restaurants.

There are many different reasons someone wants a specific antique or classic car.

Find one you like and enjoy it. Good luck.
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Old 06-16-2021, 03:40 PM   #4
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

I get it.

I have been working on my 28 for a long time without even remotely trying to start it. I'm afraid I much prefer working on cars than driving them.

I was that way with racing bicycles. I was always a much better mechanic than a racer. Now I am a professional mechanic and wheel builder. I'd rather turn a wrench than ride.

Luckily we all need all types to keep it going.

Wish I could afford to buy and house another car....
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Old 06-16-2021, 03:52 PM   #5
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

Took my honeymoon in a 1950 straight eight when I was 20. I always enjoyed parking in it more than driving it!
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Old 06-16-2021, 03:56 PM   #6
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Diff’rent strokes for diff’rent folks. If you want to just dispose of that troublesome ol’ Model A, I’ll take it off your hands and even haul it away for a nominal fee.
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Old 06-16-2021, 04:54 PM   #7
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

I'm actually hoping I can sell the thing, but I'm almost nearing the level of frustration where I would pay somebody to take it away.

I feel like Mick Jagger:

Nothin' I do don't seem to work,
It only seems to make matters worse.
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Old 06-16-2021, 05:13 PM   #8
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I don't do convoys or clubs, I built mine to drive in traffic anytime I want.. double the power of a stock A, overdrive and a few other goodies..12v,modern LED lighting,f100 steering, modern radials, cast iron drums with Teds floaters and woven shoes..it can compete in CA traffic.. hop up that roadster, enjoy it..
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Old 06-16-2021, 05:51 PM   #9
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

Hmm, too bad. The Model A is a good reliable vehicle, but, like anything does require some work/maintenance. They can be difficult to drive until used to them. However, I do enjoy working on it when needed.

I drive the heck out of mine and don't even know of a local club.
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Old 06-16-2021, 06:03 PM   #10
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

Sorry to see a new owner give up on the ol' Ford. Once you get the problems worked out, they tend to be pretty fun. If they were inherently unreliable, they wouldn't be here 90 years later. On the other hand, they are 90+ years old and not all that comfortable. I wish you all the best.
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Old 06-16-2021, 06:37 PM   #11
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

I feel your pain. I am also new to model a’s but have found this website to be extremely helpful! I think i just about have my car sorted. I think.... I understand the thought of wanting a more modern car, but nothing is saying the next car is going to be road ready either. I have had many frustrations with my car but i cant imagine a car being easier to work on than the model a. Yes, some of us need some guidance in what direction to look but its doable! Your car looks great! Just need to get some bugs worked out. I think its great that you want to drive the cars though! Either direction you choose, good luck.
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Old 06-16-2021, 07:51 PM   #12
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

They do take a might bit of maintenance.
And that can take a lot your time and drive you little crazy...but not me...
no surrey buddy, nope...not at all, got both eyes on the ball...sane as ever...
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Old 06-16-2021, 08:01 PM   #13
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Required two engine rebuilds but now I hardly ever open the hood.
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Old 06-16-2021, 08:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garcia View Post
I'm actually hoping I can sell the thing, but I'm almost nearing the level of frustration where I would pay somebody to take it away.

I feel like Mick Jagger:

Nothin' I do don't seem to work,
It only seems to make matters worse.
There's a learning curve that once you get over it becomes little of an issue. Maybe step back from it for a week or two and reassess. Purdy car and you'll enjoy it once you are comfortable with it.
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Old 06-16-2021, 08:54 PM   #15
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I'm interested, what's your price? I live about 160 miles from you. 509- 670-0408. I would bring cash and a trailer.
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Old 06-16-2021, 09:06 PM   #16
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I drive the heck out of mine and don't even know of a local club.
So what do you do when your engine dies after 90 seconds and you've done all the steps in the troubleshooting book?
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Old 06-16-2021, 09:29 PM   #17
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

I understand Mr. Garcia. I just did it in reverse. I have owned and built dozens of cars,
mostly street rods. I took my Model A in trade for a 1940 Mercury sedan. I now just want to slow down and drive a slow car and enjoy working on it when needed. I don't belong to a club and don't plan on a tour, Just a cruise-in from time to time.
Best wishes.
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Old 06-16-2021, 09:29 PM   #18
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

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Thanks to all the people who helped me with my engine problem, but I've come to the conclusion that I'm just not a Model A person. There are too many variables, and I can't keep up with them all.

My last old car was a 1952 Buick. I had to do a lot of work on it, but once I had the brakes finished, I could drive it all around for a hundred miles at a time with no problems and without being part of an organized tour. My friend has a 1956 Cadillac, and he spends his time driving it rather than working on it. That's the way I would like it.

I hadn't thought about it before, but some people like owning a car that requires membership in a club, and some people like just owning a car. I'm in the latter group.

Thanks again for all your help, and if anybody's interested in a 1931 Deluxe Roadster, let me know.

I'm a bit like you Garcia. I don't like oil or grease or spanners. (I enjoy good dirt, not mud so much but dust is okay). I enjoy driving my A's and have a reputation for keeping motor cars and aeroplanes going with the minimum of maintenance. I also get considerable pleasure from simply seeing them in my garage.
Don't ever sell your A, it is the most simple car you could ever have.
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Old 06-16-2021, 10:00 PM   #19
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

Can’t you find some good help ,join your local model a club ! Model ware quite reliable
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Old 06-16-2021, 10:13 PM   #20
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

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So what do you do when your engine dies after 90 seconds and you've done all the steps in the troubleshooting book?
These cars were very reliable when they were new and there is no reason that they can not be made to be as reliable today. There has to be a reason that you are having this problem and it is most likely something very simple. Sometimes it takes a little more understanding of the car than what is covered in the repair manuals. Are you involved with a Model A club in your area. Usually, there are several members who are very good at diagnosing and help with fixing a problem such as you are having.

I did a complete restoration my self on a '30 Tudor that I have been driving for about 12 years now. I have about 17K miles on it with very few problems. I would not hesitate to start out cross country in it.

I have purchased 2 other Model A's that had been previously restored, both I would not want to get more than walking distance from my shop when I first drove them but after some sorting our and correcting some poor work done by others, both became very reliable cars.

All my Model A's are close to what they were when they left the factory, even down to the original 6 volt electrical system with a generator. I can let my cars sit for several months and they will start right up and are ready to go. I have not done anything special to make my cars reliable.

If you lived near by, I would take your car and straighten it out for you.

My opinion,

Chris W.

Last edited by CWPASADENA; 06-16-2021 at 10:16 PM. Reason: TYPO
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Old 06-16-2021, 10:42 PM   #21
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

sorry the story had an unpleasant ending because they truly are a fun vehicle. Good luck finding something you will enjoy ! Be safe! Wayne
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Old 06-16-2021, 10:54 PM   #22
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

Here is my 2 cents worth. It sounds like you got sold a bill of goods that were not quite up to what was said it was. That being said you sound like you know mechanics since you owned a 50's Buick before.

That being said, I would stop and think about each system a bit. When you buy a new to you car that has been 'mokeyed with' over 90 years, things happen. I know you want to drive the car but you don't know what the competency of the previous mechanics was. That is not your fault or the previous owner as they may not have known.

But you, may want to look each system over and make sure it matches how Henry built it in the beginning. Then move to the next system. You will be surprised at how some things got 'fixed'. Then I think you will get a chance to enjoy her more on the open road. Basically you are going to have to wrench on her either at the beginning or later in life-i.e. on the side of the road. Sorry not trying to ramble, but I think you have a good car that just needs a little love to be a great car to cruise down the road in.

Mike
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Old 06-16-2021, 10:56 PM   #23
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

Mr. Garcia:
I have sent you a Private Message regarding this. Please review and respond.

Thank you.

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Old 06-17-2021, 05:09 AM   #24
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

Quote:
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So what do you do when your engine dies after 90 seconds and you've done all the steps in the troubleshooting book?
I had a similar issue with mine when i first got it. I found that the screen inside of the gas tank was plugged with scale/rust. I ended up removing the gas line from the carburetor and blowing air back into the tank to get the junk pushed off of the screen. It hasnt had that issue since. If you try this, make sure you remove your gas cap and go easy with the air. Im not sure if this will be your fix but it worked for me. Id say its worth a try.
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Old 06-17-2021, 05:30 AM   #25
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So what do you do when your engine dies after 90 seconds and you've done all the steps in the troubleshooting book?



The engine shouldn't die after 90 seconds. If it did, I'd fix it.
The problem shouldn't be too hard to find and we're here to help. We can walk you thru it.
Just let us know the basics, like where there is power and not, if there is fuel or not.
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Old 06-17-2021, 05:35 AM   #26
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Might want to try a broken down Model T. (humor)
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Old 06-17-2021, 05:39 AM   #27
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

I bought my Model A from a reputable person, who did very good restorations. He was convinced the car was in excellent shape when he sold it to me, and most of it was in excellent shape. However, the car was parked a while before he sold it, which is about the worst thing that can happen to any car. It turns out the car had some issues that he didn’t know about and some issues developed after I started driving the car regularly. I ended up having to fix number of things shortly after purchasing the car.

I’ve had three antique cars (1957 Fairlane, 1965 Mustang, 1931 Model A), and I’ve had pretty much the same story with each of them, because all of them had been parked a while before purchase. (It seems previous owners don’t want to sell until they are convinced they are not driving the cars enough.) However, once you get the Model A sorted out, it is an incredible car. I usually meet a couple new friends each time I take it to the gas station and wherever else I go. Yes, there was a learning curve with my car (and I have much more to learn), but it generates more smiles per mile than any other car I’ve owned.

Several folks have recommended Model A clubs. I’ve been a member of 4 car clubs over the years, and, by far, our Model A club is the friendliest and most helpful of the bunch.

Oh, by the way, my Model A is more reliable than the 1957 Fairlane that I had. Lately, it’s also been more reliable than my 1965 Mustang.


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Old 06-17-2021, 07:23 AM   #28
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Well I definitely understand your position as I have known others like yourself in a similar scenario. The likely issue is you purchased a car that you were told was Restored, however in reality, it probably wasn't, ...and now that is affecting your joy. You must remember however, the Model-A was VERY reliable when it was new, ...and can be when it is properly and thoroughly restored to be like it was when new. A 1956 Cadillac can be a unreliable car just like a worn Model-A can, ...so it really isn't that you aren't a Model-A guy, its more than you are a poor soul that was mislead on what you were purchasing. None the less, best wishes and hopefully you will find a better quality vehicle to enjoy.

I was in his shoes, recently, too. This is exactly what happened to me. My '28 is a restored car and I bought it, drove it the 65 miles home and now it sits in the garage awaiting an engine overhaul missing out on summer fun. I put it up for sale once, but backed out and now I'm feeling better and buckling down for the long haul! These are great cars and I'm sure one day I'll enjoy it.
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Old 06-17-2021, 08:51 AM   #29
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I have seen club members who didn't know which end of the wrench to grab learn quickly and become comfortable driving long distances by themselves.
You don't have to join a club but that is usually the best place to find a mentor.
Often they will refuse payment for working on your car because it is such therapeutic fun for some of us.....
So don't be too quick to sell.
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Old 06-17-2021, 08:55 AM   #30
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I can’t believe what I am reading here. These are 90 year old USED cars. Most have had “many” different owners. Just like any used car, there has been no service, bad service, and good service done on them. No Carfax to check, no recalls to confirm being done. In most cases it’s a crap shoot.

On the plus side. Do you think that 50 Buick will make it to 90 years old in the same numbers remaining as the Ford Model A? How about parts?

There is junk for sale out there, whether it’s a Model A or a Mustang. Junk is just that, junk.

If your buying any antique or classic, buy it like you would your family car. As few owners as possible, have it checked out completely, if you have concerns walk away, restored contact Brent or another respected restoration shop.

They are not all low mileage beauties out there. There are however a lot of well taken care of restored and un restored Model A’s that do come up for sale. Some owned and loved by the same family for generations. They need a good new home to go to. Maybe one of these should be you next antique/classic car.

Enjoy.
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Old 06-17-2021, 09:08 AM   #31
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I had a similar issue with mine when i first got it. I found that the screen inside of the gas tank was plugged with scale/rust. I ended up removing the gas line from the carburetor and blowing air back into the tank to get the junk pushed off of the screen. It hasnt had that issue since. If you try this, make sure you remove your gas cap and go easy with the air. Im not sure if this will be your fix but it worked for me. Id say its worth a try.

Reminds me of the 1967 'Bonnie & Clyde' movie. "Dirt in the fuel line. Just blowed her away." I had this same thing with my 1955 Chevy truck some 30 years ago. The dealer worked on it and claimed it was a bad fuel pump. They replaced it and said they drove it for miles after that. Nope. It would idle just fine, but when I gave it the gas it would flat out stall. I did just what you are saying and it fixed it. I put a sock over the inlet and it was fine. They didn't give us our money back for the miss diagnosis, though.
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Old 06-17-2021, 10:11 AM   #32
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If you don't have the desire or skill to work on it then it isn't for you..buy a Honda.
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Old 06-17-2021, 10:29 AM   #33
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I'm hoping you keep it, but that is up to you. I was recently feeling exactly like you, but I'm coming out of it. I think I just bought this car too soon after my wife's death and the shock of buying a restored car that needs so much work just drop-kicked me! I turned the corner last week, I think. I'm looking forward to having it on the road someday. Hopefully before the snow flies. I keep asking questions and learning more. This really is a great group of car people that are very helpful. I've met so many people since I delved into this Model A hobby back in May. It's certainly not the first old car I've ever had and it might not be the last. (craving a Model T now) I almost bought a '38 Ford Tudor, but a friend of mine talked me out of it and said I'd be better off with an 'A'. The only complaint I would have is that it's really cramped around the pedals, but I'll get used to that. I drove it home 65 miles (without knowing anything about it) and it was really comfortable. I really am wanting to take this car on drives across the state someday! The nearest club is an hour away so I'm not sure if I'll ever get around to joining a club. We'll see.
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Old 06-17-2021, 11:05 AM   #34
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I'm actually hoping I can sell the thing, but I'm almost nearing the level of frustration where I would pay somebody to take it away.

I feel like Mick Jagger:

Nothin' I do don't seem to work,
It only seems to make matters worse.
just drive it and enjoy it
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Old 06-17-2021, 12:04 PM   #35
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The engine shouldn't die after 90 seconds. If it did, I'd fix it.
The problem shouldn't be too hard to find and we're here to help. We can walk you thru it.
Just let us know the basics, like where there is power and not, if there is fuel or not.
I started working through the steps in the Andrews troubleshooting book, and after I passed the test for a strong spark from the coil wire to ground, I did the coil test and secondary coil failed. I have a new coil on order, so we'll see what that does.

I had previously been confused about having a strong spark with a bad condenser, but I did have a strong spark, so I guess I can have one with a bad coil.
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Old 06-17-2021, 12:22 PM   #36
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I had a similar issue with mine when i first got it. I found that the screen inside of the gas tank was plugged with scale/rust. I ended up removing the gas line from the carburetor and blowing air back into the tank to get the junk pushed off of the screen. It hasnt had that issue since. If you try this, make sure you remove your gas cap and go easy with the air. Im not sure if this will be your fix but it worked for me. Id say its worth a try.
I had to do this routine when I had my 1976 MG Midget. I used to call it "burping the baby". Every time I pushed her over 60, it would sputter, then die. I'd pull over, pull the gas line (rubber on this with little to no fuel pressure in this era), blow into it and hear the burp in the gas tank. Reconnect and I was good as gold - as long as I kept it under 60 (sediment would increase with fuel flow, resulting in the snowball effect clogging the line). I eventually got it fixed after my wife finally refused to ride with me in it, but to this day we still laugh at burping the baby.
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Old 06-17-2021, 12:33 PM   #37
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

I completely get your position here, OP.

My Model A (recently acquired) has been in my family for generations, I'm totally honored to be its custodian for my time on this earth and its just so cool to have such a treasured heirloom... that being said, if I were to go out and buy a car right now, I'd buy something more suited for problem free touring and not a 90 year antique on the bleeding edge of early technology.

Hard-core enthusiasts on specialty forums who are super-super-super-super dedicated to their niche and have years/decades of study into it are going to underestimate how 'easy' things are for people who aren't similarly positioned in terms of experience, equipment, knowledge and/or available time. To those guys, spending every weekend for 4 months troubleshooting a problem is the reward. To people who just want a car to drive, that's agony.

Bottom line, if touring is your interest and you aren't very insistent on the cool factor of doing it in a 90 year old car, there are better choices in vintage autos.

Your position is a fair one. Sell your car off to someone better suited to own it and move on to something better suited to you.
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Old 06-17-2021, 12:34 PM   #38
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I started working through the steps in the Andrews troubleshooting book, and after I passed the test for a strong spark from the coil wire to ground, I did the coil test and secondary coil failed. I have a new coil on order, so we'll see what that does.

I had previously been confused about having a strong spark with a bad condenser, but I did have a strong spark, so I guess I can have one with a bad coil.
it's defiantly a learning process but you will learn it just don't give up because they are nice to drive and enjoy the country side

good luck
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Old 06-17-2021, 01:55 PM   #39
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

It is very possible to have a good condenser and bad coil. 9 times out of ten it is the other way around though. A could can short out after it gets hot and the only way to detect that is either on a machine built to do that or on the road and swap it out. You can get ‘burn proof condensers’ from the suppliers that hold up extremely well.

Another thing….if the engine sputters and dies then it is probably fuel. But if she cuts out instantly that is usually electrical.

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Old 06-17-2021, 02:27 PM   #40
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

I think Garcia has several issues with his Model A, which can be really frustrating. In an earlier post he indicated that his fuel filter was clogging rapidly. Now it seems there is an issue with the coil. It is no wonder he is ready to throw in the towel.

I have a friend who formed a partnership with a friend to start a garage that only worked on Model A's. He has done this for maybe 10 years and has helped many Model A owners with their cars. Many owners are not mechanically inclined so they were not able to sort out their cars, but my friend is very knowledgeable and was able to put the cars on the road for the owners to enjoy. I guess what I am saying is that if Garcia can locate someone who specializes in Model A's he may want to go that route. Once the car is sorted out it can be a fun car to own and very reliable.

The spark has to traverse the gap in the spark plug when the air and fuel are compressed which is harder to do than outside the cylinder. So a good fat spark at the end of the coil wire when held over the head may not be enough for a spark plug in an engine.
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Old 06-17-2021, 09:13 PM   #41
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Lightbulb Re: I'm not a Model A person

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So what do you do when your engine dies after 90 seconds and you've done all the steps in the troubleshooting book?
Figure out if it's fuel or spark and troubleshoot the bad circuit. I'm going with fuel because that's about how long the carb bowl will run at idle before it starves for fuel. You got this.
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Old 06-17-2021, 10:32 PM   #42
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

I managed to borrow a good coil, and now the engine starts right up. Unfortunately, it then fills the garage with thick gasoline odor faster than I can get the door opened.

I guess the next thing is to replace the carburetor. At this rate, I'm going to have all new parts under the hood.
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Old 06-17-2021, 11:24 PM   #43
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

Why are you trying to be a mechanic? Do you work on your modern cars? Find a shop that is competent in the Model A, and bring it in. I enjoy fixing, but realize it is NOT for everyone.
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Old 06-18-2021, 04:34 AM   #44
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

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I managed to borrow a good coil, and now the engine starts right up. Unfortunately, it then fills the garage with thick gasoline odor faster than I can get the door opened.

I guess the next thing is to replace the carburetor. At this rate, I'm going to have all new parts under the hood.
Sounds like you might feel better about keeping it? Perhaps?
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Old 06-18-2021, 05:05 AM   #45
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

You probably dont need to replace the carburetor. Likely just needs to be disassembled and cleaned. Rebuild kits for these carbs are relatively inexpensive and easy to do. The books you have should guide you through the process. You do need to know which carb you have though, so you get the right rebuild kit. Your almost there.
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Old 06-18-2021, 06:00 AM   #46
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garcia View Post
I started working through the steps in the Andrews troubleshooting book, and after I passed the test for a strong spark from the coil wire to ground, I did the coil test and secondary coil failed. I have a new coil on order, so we'll see what that does.

I had previously been confused about having a strong spark with a bad condenser, but I did have a strong spark, so I guess I can have one with a bad coil.



You said you passed the test for a good strong spark. Then the condenser and coil should be good. Do you have the original type points or the 'modern' upper plate ?
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Old 06-18-2021, 06:03 AM   #47
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I managed to borrow a good coil, and now the engine starts right up. Unfortunately, it then fills the garage with thick gasoline odor faster than I can get the door opened.

I guess the next thing is to replace the carburetor. At this rate, I'm going to have all new parts under the hood.




Which carburetor do you have ?
Have you tried adjusting it ? Set the GAV at 1/4-1/2 turn out from gently seated. Set the idle mixture screw at 1.5 turns out. Once engine is warm adjust the idle mix screw for the best idle. That screw adjusts the air, not the fuel so screwing it out makes the mixture leaner.
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Old 06-18-2021, 07:20 AM   #48
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

Another trick worth trying to confirm its fuel related. Get a can of ether/starting fluid. Remove the air filter from your carb (if you have a air filter). Start your engine. When the engine starts to die, give the intake of the carb a shot of ether. If you can keep the car running with shots of ether, it is definitely fuel related. If it doesnt work the first time try it again. It may take a couple times to get your timing right of when to spray the ether.
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Old 06-18-2021, 07:29 AM   #49
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Another trick worth trying to confirm its fuel related. Get a can of ether/starting fluid. Remove the air filter from your carb (if you have a air filter). Start your engine. When the engine starts to die, give the intake of the carb a shot of ether. If you can keep the car running with shots of ether, it is definitely fuel related. If it doesnt work the first time try it again. It may take a couple times to get your timing right of when to spray the ether.
Ether will kill spark plugs, use VERY sparingly
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Old 06-18-2021, 09:41 AM   #50
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

IMHO, the Model A is a tinkerer's car. If you don't have the desire or aptitude to turn a wrench, the Model A is not for you. Alternatively, if you have a deep wallet and a mechanic nearby and don't mind waiting for it to be fixed, go for it.
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Old 06-18-2021, 09:50 AM   #51
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

Don't give up...you are making good progress! Many of us have gotten discouraged before, kept fixing and derived a sense of satisfaction knowing we were up to the task.
The more you fix the closer will be your bond with your A.
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Old 06-18-2021, 09:54 AM   #52
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

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I managed to borrow a good coil, and now the engine starts right up. Unfortunately, it then fills the garage with thick gasoline odor faster than I can get the door opened.
Opening the door first should be a priority.
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Old 06-18-2021, 01:34 PM   #53
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

Surprise! Or no surprise--another problem

With the new coil, I burped the baby, blowing air back into the gas tank and ensured I had a steady flow. It started up and I started my stopwatch. Twenty minutes later, it was still running, so I dared to back it out of the garage and go down the alley and back. I had just gotten the front wheels out of the garage when the engine died and wouldn't restart.

This time, the fuse had blown. I didn't know where to begin in tracing the short, so I chanced just putting a new fuse in. The new fuse didn't blow, and I was able to get the car back into the garage, where I will leave it for a couple days until I calm down.

I would like to point out to those who questioned my abilities that I have been adept with wrenches and problem-solving for many years. I have rebuilt many farm engines, and I take pride in being able to change a rusty piece of steel with ants living in it into a running engine that can win a blue ribbon at the county fair. So, please don't assume that I'm a lazy moron who just wants my problems to magically resolve themselves. I'm willing to do what it takes to get this car running, but it just seems always to be presenting a new problem.
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Old 06-18-2021, 01:41 PM   #54
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

This is a JD engine I restored. I also made the coil and the box holding it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofzL-K2xyZM
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Old 06-18-2021, 01:58 PM   #55
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Surprise! Or no surprise--another problem

With the new coil, I burped the baby, blowing air back into the gas tank and ensured I had a steady flow. It started up and I started my stopwatch. Twenty minutes later, it was still running, so I dared to back it out of the garage and go down the alley and back. I had just gotten the front wheels out of the garage when the engine died and wouldn't restart.

This time, the fuse had blown. I didn't know where to begin in tracing the short, so I chanced just putting a new fuse in. The new fuse didn't blow, and I was able to get the car back into the garage, where I will leave it for a couple days until I calm down.

I would like to point out to those who questioned my abilities that I have been adept with wrenches and problem-solving for many years. I have rebuilt many farm engines, and I take pride in being able to change a rusty piece of steel with ants living in it into a running engine that can win a blue ribbon at the county fair. So, please don't assume that I'm a lazy moron who just wants my problems to magically resolve themselves. I'm willing to do what it takes to get this car running, but it just seems always to be presenting a new problem.

Glad you are back in the game and back on top! I've been there recently, too. Struggling, but gaining.
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Old 06-18-2021, 02:11 PM   #56
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

take heart.
there are a finite number of potential problems.
resolved correctly, each in turn, they should stay resolved.

you'll be glad you didn't sell.
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Old 06-18-2021, 02:19 PM   #57
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IMHO, the Model A is a tinkerer's car. If you don't have the desire or aptitude to turn a wrench, the Model A is not for you. Alternatively, if you have a deep wallet and a mechanic nearby and don't mind waiting for it to be fixed, go for it.
..and I used to think the MG Midgets and B's were tinkerer's car! Thankfully Ford wasn't plagued by Lucas Electric systems.
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Old 06-18-2021, 02:29 PM   #58
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..and I used to think the MG Midgets and B's were tinkerer's car! Thankfully Ford wasn't plagued by Lucas Electric systems.

I was going to buy a Midget, but my friend said that I shouldn't because there are too many problems with one.
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Old 06-18-2021, 02:30 PM   #59
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

CatMan, That is a nice restoration of a hit-and-miss engine. Any doubt of your abilities should be dismissed.

It sounds like you are gaining on the Model A.

The fuse will blow for a reason. Is it 20 amps or 30 amps? I have had mine blow when the hot horn wire came loose in the horn and shorted out. The sockets for the lights are another suspect area and a lot of people bypass the connector there and add single wire connectors inside the light housings. Look for frayed wires. If it happens again temporally disconnect the wire leading from the generator/alternator to the light switch.
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Old 06-18-2021, 06:48 PM   #60
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Mr. Garcia,
My offer of two days ago stands.
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Old 06-18-2021, 07:28 PM   #61
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Good afternoon...One additional thing to check with a blown fuse is the fuse holder. Some of the older ones have very poor rivets and you can move the parts of the holder around a bit...this can cause shorts...see if you can move the parts because they are loose...time for a new holder...Ernie in Arizona
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Old 06-18-2021, 07:38 PM   #62
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..and i used to think the mg midgets and b's were tinkerer's car! Thankfully ford wasn't plagued by lucas electric systems.



:d:d:d:d:d
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Old 06-18-2021, 11:45 PM   #63
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

Are you using a fuse holder with a automatic reset circuit breaker?

One of our members messed with his 29 Coupe off and on for almost a year. It would start just fine and run for a minute or two and then quit. He would try to diagnose the problem and then it would run again, only to quit. Over the period of a year, He replaced the coil distributor fuel filter in the tank generator cur out and several other items.

He thought he had the problem fixed and was going on a club out and got a few blocks from his home and it quit again. Out of desperation he called me for some help to get it back home. When I got to him, I found the car started right up and seemed to be fine. He drove another block or so and it quit again. I immediately checked for spark and there was none. I checked at the fuse holder an the starter and there was no power. I took my knife and shorted across the automatic circuit breaker in the fuse holder and it started right up. This time he had stopped right in front of a hardware store. He purchased a box of 30 amp fuses and replaced the Made in China circuit breaker with a fuse. End of problem.

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Old 06-18-2021, 11:50 PM   #64
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

I do not know all of what you have done and exactly what the symptoms are but one thing I ran across that caused all kinds of a problem was poor quality points. I have found points made in China have very little tungsten on the contact surfaces and will burn very easily. You can clean them and the car will run for a little while and then run bad and quit.

Be sure to use good quality electrical components and not the Chinese stuff.

My opinion,

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Old 06-19-2021, 12:52 AM   #65
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If it blew when you started backing, I suspect you may have also had to use the brakes, bad brake light switch? It happened to a friend, car ran great and sometimes as soon as he entered he stepped on brake, sometimes he didn't....etc...was crazy until we realized when he hit the brake pedal the fuse blew! Easy to by pass to check.
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Old 06-19-2021, 08:24 AM   #66
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Look. There’s really not very many classic automobiles that are more “simple”. This is a learning curve, like anything else that’s new or different, and it sounds like you’ve got a car that’s been neglected and abused, so you’ve got some things to remedy, and quirks to figure out. Patience, and stepping away when you’re frustrated; you’ll get there eventually. Think about it; if you had purchased another 50 Buick that had this Model A’s history of ownership, you’d be even more confused than you are right now…
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Old 06-19-2021, 10:19 AM   #67
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It is good to hear that you are still chopping away at the issues. Sometimes you just get fed up, it happens.
It sounds like you have a car with an eclectic collection of issues.
You will help the rest of us as you find the solutions since we will all (possibly) learn new things.
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Old 06-19-2021, 10:25 AM   #68
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Update on progress:
First of all, thanks to everyone who has made suggestions and pointed the way.
The fuse I have is a five dollar inline glass 30 amp fuse (not a circuit breaker) from the hardware store installed between the x and the y. Installing it was the first thing I did to the car. I took nkaminar’s suggestion and disconnected the wire leading from the generator to the light switch and haven’t had any more blown fuses. I have a new lighting harness on order.
When I got the car, there was a button for the horn attached to the steering column with cable ties. The seller told me he didn’t know why the horn button didn’t work, but that he had rigged that up as a solution. The more I find out about this car, the more I realize all the red flags I should have noticed when I first looked at it. This is indeed a learning experience, and maybe I’ll be a lot better prepared if I happen to buy another Model A.
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Old 06-19-2021, 10:38 AM   #69
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Update on progress:

The fuse I have is a five dollar inline glass 30 amp fuse (not a circuit breaker) from the hardware store installed between the x and the y.
That's one way to put it that I've never heard before.
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Old 06-19-2021, 10:40 AM   #70
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Your changing the red flags to checkered flags one at a time! With the lighting wires disconnected how about trying a small victory drive? Keep at it, take a break from it when you need!
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Old 06-19-2021, 11:05 AM   #71
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Garcia,

I’m glad you are making progress. A lot of folks are pulling for you. You’ll eventually get past the issues, and there will be a sense of accomplishment when you get there. A Model A is wonderful car to drive, and it’s an absolute fantastic conversation starter whoever you take one.


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Old 06-19-2021, 11:47 AM   #72
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That's one way to put it that I've never heard before.
D'oh! I wanted to go to the garage to make sure, and I used a place holder then forgot about it. The fuse goes between the starter and the terminal box, where it belongs.
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Old 06-19-2021, 12:30 PM   #73
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Good Morning...I forget all the things that you have corrected...have you taken a really good look at the battery ground strap? Some ground straps that are the rubber covered ones can be rotten on the inside...they will carry current until wiggled and then they don't. You might check and if not a good one, the proper one s 00 sized and about the size of your middle finger or so. Many of us use two. One connected to the transmission and the other to the frame...often we mount them from a marine terminal on the positive post of the battery. The marine terminal makes it easy to mount two ground straps on the positive termainal...Ernie in Arizona
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Old 06-19-2021, 12:49 PM   #74
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I hope that you find the right vehicle to suit your style.
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Old 06-19-2021, 04:45 PM   #75
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Well I definitely understand your position as I have known others like yourself in a similar scenario. The likely issue is you purchased a car that you were told was Restored, however in reality, it probably wasn't, ...and now that is affecting your joy. You must remember however, the Model-A was VERY reliable when it was new, ...and can be when it is properly and thoroughly restored to be like it was when new. A 1956 Cadillac can be a unreliable car just like a worn Model-A can, ...so it really isn't that you aren't a Model-A guy, its more than you are a poor soul that was mislead on what you were purchasing. None the less, best wishes and hopefully you will find a better quality vehicle to enjoy.
If all the little things like wiring and carb and ignition are bad chances are the big things are bad too.
I would advise you to make a plan for how to make thecar do what you want it for.
A mechanical restoration would be reliable,.
replacing parts as you go will not.


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Old 06-19-2021, 05:29 PM   #76
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

Quote:
Originally Posted by john in illinois View Post
If all the little things like wiring and carb and ignition are bad chances are the big things are bad too.
I would advise you to make a plan for how to make thecar do what you want it for.
A mechanical restoration would be reliable,.
replacing parts as you go will not.


John
If the car in his avatar is the car that he is working on, id say it has gone under some sort of restoration already. I think its a little early to say that he needs a restoration. Im thinking it has probably been restored but not sorted. We all have different views of what a restoration includes. However any rebuild/restoration will require some tinkering to get the last bugs out. Wether it be from human error or faulty products. Keep plugging away Garcia, many smiles to come.
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Last edited by Slowmotoring; 06-19-2021 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 06-19-2021, 06:11 PM   #77
Garcia
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

Thanks, john in illinois and Slowmotoring. I drove around the neighborhood for two miles today, and I think some of the other problems are showing up now that the engine will keep running. First of all, I have a lot of vibration, and it appears to me that the crankshaft is not steady in its bearings. Second, the steering seems to be hard and with a lot of play, but that might be because I'm used to the steering in a Corolla. The transmission grinds and grunts, but I'm pretty sure that's because of operator error. My wife, who is usually smarter than I on about everything, says I need to take it slowly, visit neutral along the way, and pay attention. It's going to need more work, but it's not the horror show it was a week ago.
What novice would not have fallen for this ad:
For Sale: 1931 roadster Older restoration with less than 400 miles. Run and drives great. Paint shows some age but looks very nice from a few feet. Interior is great, with new clutch, pressure plate, and throw out bearing, new valves, valve guides and muffler. Comes with side curtains and car cover.
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Old 06-19-2021, 06:21 PM   #78
Anteek29
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

Model A trannys do not have synchronizers so double clutching works best
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Old 06-19-2021, 07:02 PM   #79
Garcia
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

For those who wanted to see more pictures, I've thrown together a google site:

https://sites.google.com/view/1931-roadster/home
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Old 06-19-2021, 07:41 PM   #80
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

Shifting clue, be sure the right hand "idle" arm is as slow as the car can stand. You want the transmission as slow as it can be when shifting, but here's a secret....when going from first to second and second the third PUSH THAT SHIFTER HARD TO TO THE RIGHT so the car knows you are in command... seriously...a hard hold to the right when shifting really helps and remember the goal of first gear is simply second gear and the goal of second gear is simply third gear... in other words you should be in third by 15 to 20 miles an hour tops no revs like a motorcycle. These are just lawn mowers......HA HA HA now I'm banned....
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Old 06-19-2021, 07:52 PM   #81
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

Pictures look nice. I got my A last fall and have about 1500 miles on it since the salt has washed off the roads. Im still grinding gears occasionally. Ive found that its a lot easier to shift smoothly if you keep the rpms on the low side. You’ll get a feel for it and be able to start shifting at higher rpms. Paul shinn has a lot of how to videos on you tube that are very handy to watch. He has at least one on how to shift. Some people double clutch. I just do a 5 second count and seems to work good. You have to play with the timing based on rpms though. Maybe double clutching is the better way. Many ways to skin a cat...

mine steers pretty stiff as well. Im thinking thats why henry installed such a large steering wheel for us to crank on.

I have found that the timing plays a pretty big role in the vibrations of my car. Wether it be at idle or cruising down the road. When i got my car it had roughly 100 miles on it since its restoration in 1995. My journey started with fuel issues and it stalling much like yours to blowing fuses much like yours but from a short in the horn. And several other minor issues along the way. Point is, if your car only has 400 miles on it since it was restored, it probably hasnt been sorted. Your going to have issues that pop up after a restoration no matter the depth of the restoration.

Did you have other issues on your test drive other than the vibrations and the clunky tranny?
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Old 06-19-2021, 10:59 PM   #82
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

Good looking Model A,

I suspect the basics are OK, it will just take some sorting and you will have a good car.

Hang in there and now that you can actually drive it, you can take it a step at a time and in the end, you will have a nice car that you can drive with confidence and enjoy.

My opinion,

Chris W.
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Old 06-20-2021, 12:03 AM   #83
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

As far as shifting, as others have said, double clutch and eventually, you will find the timing of the shift to stop double clutching; but it is still a pretty slow shift. Use the 600W oil recommended for the trans, it helps. The Model A trans is geared for first and second up to like 35 mph, then a big gap to 3rd for high speed driving (45-50 mph). When this car was manufactured, a lot of roads were still unpaved so first and second were appropriate. I changed to a 1935 trans to get better gear ratios for modern driving. However, many, many drivers stick with the original trans.
As for steering, make sure your joints are lubed in the steering linkage. These respond well to fresh lube. Later, you can check alignment and check for worn parts but just to get a few miles to get used to the car, lube the steering joints, the king pins and check for lube in the steering box. As I recall, the steering box will take the same 600W oil (as does the rear end).
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Old 06-20-2021, 12:12 AM   #84
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Default Re: I'm not a Model A person

BTW, just had a look at your posted pictures. Sure is a pretty car. Sure looks like a good foundation to build from. I think the car will eventually win you over and you will need to change the title of your posting thread. Kinda like Green Eggs and Ham :-)
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