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Old 11-17-2019, 07:10 PM   #41
GB SISSON
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Default Re: Interesting read in Hemmings about restoration costs.

I have a friend who grew up in LA in the 60s and remembered the Earl Shieb guy at the end of the paint job painting the tires in one smooth circlular stroke with tire black to cover the overspray.
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Old 11-17-2019, 08:59 PM   #42
Jeff/Illinois
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Default Re: Interesting read in Hemmings about restoration costs.

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I've seen Bob Green's green 71 Torino in person. My former salesman sold him his original grabber blue 71 convertible at Mount Carmel, PA. (Kuzo Brothers Ford Mercury). Jack and I had the same reaction when looking at the car "they never had that good of panel gaps, ect. from the factory". We both thought the restoration cost had to be north of 100k. He has a 69 Mach 1, 428 4speed that I think has around 5k miles. I remarked to Bob the fit and finish on the 2008 Shelby GT 500 we sold him was 100% better but I'd still give a body part for the 69 Mach 1.....
You're probably right on the restoration cost, and, the guy did a lot of the work himself. Could you imagine hiring out that level of restoration. Yikes.

I guess bringing this back to Model A Fords, the same applies. Those guys that have those beautiful 490 plus point Fine Point Judging Model A's have a lot of sweat and money in the cars.

I'm glad they do. I love seeing them, and will never be at that level myself so I gladly look over their cars.

One thing I like about the Model A News from MARC, is the pages of DETAILED photos they publish on the Fine Point cars. Amazing stuff.
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Old 11-18-2019, 08:13 AM   #43
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Default Re: Interesting read in Hemmings about restoration costs.

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Yeah, you can almost stake your life on not being able to have one restored in 6 months. They only do that type of thing on TV shows!!


Using your analogy of a 30-40 year old restoration that has not been driven, the thing I have typically seen is these cars were parked and not used for a reason. Granted there will always be exceptions but generally it is because the vehicle performed unreliably or poorly where there was usually an issue with it every time it was taken out of the garage, so it just stayed in the garage. Therefore my advice is budget for the worst and hope for the best.

So depending on expectations and goals, my minimum maintenance advice to that newbie would include an engine rebuild by a reputable rebuilder. Just because an engine has new bearings from 40 years ago does not mean the job was done correctly with proper materials. Next would be tires and tubes. Next would be a complete mechanical brake rebuild bringing everything back with factory specifications. A complete steering assessment would be in order too. I would also budget for a gas tank restoration and new radiator and hope those are not needed. Then you get into lesser thought of items such as battery, generator, carburetor, distributor, hoses, lube change-outs, etc. Realistically, the parts alone on these items alone will easily surpass the initial purchase price.

And for what its worth, I can tell you that from experience that buying a running/driving car for more money does not always make it a better value. Spending a few extra thousand dollars on a vehicle that has a running engine yet needs the engine to be rebuilt (out of bearing shims, improper bearing material, etc.) does not make it a better value. Buying a 'restored' vehicle where the Seller suggests the brakes and steering probably only need to be adjusted, and maybe a quick tune-up to make it "ready to drive anywhere" generally is found to be far from factual when it is then parked in the Buyer's garage.




I do agree that "in theory" it does makes sense to buy a collector car that is already restored, ...however most buyers will tell you that finding one that has truly been restored (-or even repaired correctly) is very difficult. Most collector vehicles available on the market are really 'Repair & Repaints' that generally leave their new owners disgusted at their purchase as they quickly learn their vehicle seemingly is a money pit. For that reason alone, I find that is the sole reason why having one restored makes sense to them.


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I know of a fellow that bought what looked like a very nicely restored car at a BJ auction. It was pretty much a half decent paint job and little to no mechanical work. He paid a premium because it looked so nice only to end up spending a lot more to get it running in top shape. I have bought many a motorcycle at auction and my only advice is buyer beware!
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Old 11-18-2019, 12:40 PM   #44
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Default Re: Interesting read in Hemmings about restoration costs.

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I know of a fellow that bought what looked like a very nicely restored car at a BJ auction. It was pretty much a half decent paint job and little to no mechanical work. He paid a premium because it looked so nice only to end up spending a lot more to get it running in top shape. I have bought many a motorcycle at auction and my only advice is buyer beware!
77Birdman that very same thing happened here at home to a rather wealthy farmer friend that goes to our church.

He was at the B-J auctions about 4 or 5 years ago and plunked down cash for what he thought was the Vette of his dreams.

That dream turned into a nightmare after the car was sent back here and he was able to really go over it. He is mechanically talented and knows his way around cars. He told me that they wouldn't let him really look the car over when he was there, that they rudely ran him off. I didn't know they would do that.

He cusses those guys every time we bring them up at the coffee house
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Old 11-18-2019, 12:47 PM   #45
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Default Re: Interesting read in Hemmings about restoration costs.

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77Birdman that very same thing happened here at home to a rather wealthy farmer friend that goes to our church.

He was at the B-J auctions about 4 or 5 years ago and plunked down cash for what he thought was the Vette of his dreams.

That dream turned into a nightmare after the car was sent back here and he was able to really go over it. He is mechanically talented and knows his way around cars. He told me that they wouldn't let him really look the car over when he was there, that they rudely ran him off. I didn't know they would do that.

He cusses those guys every time we bring them up at the coffee house
Was it the seller that ran him off, or B-J?


I think I can understand if it was B-J. If my car was for sale I would not want just anybody/everybody crawling all over my car if I was not present.
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Old 11-18-2019, 02:33 PM   #46
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Was it the seller that ran him off, or B-J?


I think I can understand if it was B-J. If my car was for sale I would not want just anybody/everybody crawling all over my car if I was not present.
Not sure I'll ask him next time I see him. I think it was the B-J people
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Old 11-19-2019, 09:35 AM   #47
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Default Re: Interesting read in Hemmings about restoration costs.

I have not been to a BJ auction, dont know how they are, I have bought and sold m/c's through Mecum with success. I dont think I would ever buy online after seeing a bike one time that looked amazing that I had to have. At the last minute I was able to swing the trip to FLA and attend. In person the bike was a POS! The cost of the trip more than paid for itself in the aggrevation and waste of money I would have spent on it.
We have a local Richie Brothers that sells mostly construction related stuff. I have bought a lot from them in the past, they put the stuff on the lot with keys in the ignition, you can start them, run them, check hydraulics, just about anything else. Takes most of the guess work out.
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Old 11-19-2019, 10:25 AM   #48
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Default Re: Interesting read in Hemmings about restoration costs.

I'm sure that I am reiterating what has been said, but many car people have no idea what goes into paint and restoration. It's not hours. It's months or even a year on one vehicle, but they think you should do it for a couple grand. Not happening, so they go away angry. I do my own paint and bodywork on my own cars and leave it at that.
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