Stromberg Distributor Question

[Flathead Fever]

I hear of so many problems with the 59A electronic distributers. Some guys love them and other have tossed then and gone back to stock. I must have twenty 59A distributers sitting in a box. I'd probably just use one of those stock ones if I ever get around to building a flathead. I've never had a set of points leave me on the side of the road. I ran early Mustangs with factory dual point distributers as daily transportation and never once had a problem with one as long as I changed the points as required. They go up to maximum rpm and beyond without missing. Besides, I just like the nostalgia of points. I know it's not as precise, but for street use there just fine. I was professional fleet mechanic with 300 vehicles and points kept us busy. I would bet I had just as many cars came into the shop with a bad electronic pickup or failed computer as I had bad points but that was a long time ago and the electronics have gotten better. The problem is people don't replace the points until the engine finally quits; they do require "maintenance". The biggest thing today is getting quality points; there is a lot of junk for sale. I keep the old parts catalogs so I can use the part numbers to pick up NOS Motorcraft points off of eBay for older Fords. At the phone company we stocked Motorcraft for the Fords, Delco for The Chevys and Standard (deluxe) Blue Streaks for the Dodges and Plymouths. Those were all exceptional parts. I've been ouit of the mechanic business for 15-years, I'm not sure what's available now.

[busmania]

Originally Posted by hueyhoolihan

ya, i know, it's been a while, but...

the question i have, is where and how do i mount the external coil it will be needing?

I mounted mine right above the distributor. I pulled the top bolt from the timing cover and replaced it with a stud and some double nuts. Then used the coil bracket in said stud. See photos.


IMG_3891.jpg

IMG_3892.jpg

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by busmania

I mounted mine right above the distributor. I pulled the top bolt from the timing cover and replaced it with a stud and some double nuts. Then used the coil bracket in said stud. See photos.


Attachment 567296

Attachment 567297

[hueyhoolihan]

exactly what i was looking for! thanks

it looks to be mounted horizontally just above the distributor cap as you noted, kept the standard sparkplug wire lead tubes and ran each set of four wires as they exited the tubes between the coil (if necessary) and the timing cover...clever. nice and neat and cooled by the fan. excellent!

BTW, mind me asking where you found that clamp?

[busmania]

If I remember correctly the clamp came with the coil.

[hueyhoolihan]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by busmania

If I remember correctly the clamp came with the coil.

well the distributor, coil and wires have been delivered but have yet to open the box, so will do that. probably today.

as i have yet to get the engine to even turn over with a 6 volt battery, it will be a few days at least before installing the distributor coil and wires. as i am waiting on delivery of new 00 battery cables before removing the 8v battery, their puny cables and removing excess paint from around the grounding studs on the firewall.

then i can install the 6v battery and if it will start the car, only then will i attempt to replace the current distributor with the e-fire and the new coil and plug wires.

one step at a time, i guess.

[hueyhoolihan]

deleted

[hueyhoolihan]

deleted

[Drbrown]

My experience was with Pentronix modules getting sensitive after some use and burning out. I think that electric systems that have been changed to use an Alternator is more prone to throw a voltage spike than a stock generator. Jim Lindner use to be our go to guy re electronic ignitions and he couldn't solve the burn out problem BUT had a friend who mounted a stock voltage regulator to his alternetor !

[hueyhoolihan]

installed 00 battery cables and cleaned paint off and around grounding lugs yesterday...car now starts on a 6v battery. so will be installing e-fire distributor, wires and coil soon.

may move grounding wire from firewall lug to one of the starter's mounting bolts. and possibly remove what may be unnecessary grounding straps...depending on the outcome of a few tests.

i think i might remove the sparkplug tubes too. not sure if they will be a hinderance or help with the new distributor. thus far, i've found them more of a hinderance than anything else.

[hueyhoolihan]

installed the e-fire today...

car didn't start, will be double checking installation tomorrow. ...not that i didn't do that today. and i'll be researching possible errors i've made in the installation. i'll be doing that this evening...all evening.

here's what i did today:

i first removed the old distributor, coil and wires and their tubes.

then i installed the e-fire distributor, connected the wires to the cap and sparkplugs according to their document, then connected coil wire to the new coil (also from Stromberg).

then the white distributor wire was connected to the wire that i removed from and powered the diver's helmet coil. that wire, i assume it will now power the e-fire's electronics. then connected the black wire to the negative post on the bew coil (stromberg e-fire 44 1.5ohm coil) and then used my own wire to connect the positive post on the new coil to the engine so as to ground it. then, after it failed to start, i verified the e-fire is getting 6v current to its white wire when ignition is turned on.

have yet to verify i'm getting spark to plugs, or getting spark out of coil. i need a remote starter switch for that and i don't have one. i'll be hopefully picking one up tomorrow at Harbor Freight or Napa.

a bit of a disappointment, i'll admit...

the only thing i can think of that could be wrong is that i've got a ballast resistor or resistor wire between the ignition switch and the distributor's white wire. and i may have, the truth is i don't know as if yet. anyway, if so, it's possible the e-fire distributor is not getting the correct amount of voltage it needs. geez, i hope that's the problem because i can't think of anything else at this time.

if so, the remedy would be to run a wire directly from the ignition switch to the white wire on the distributor, thus bypassing any ballast resistor. ...big PITA and don't want to do that.

[KiWinUS]

Did you wire it as per E-fire instructions? For the 6volt E-fire the wiring is different than I have ever seen. The one I tried started right away but just didn’t sound right I replaced with a used crab and engine ran like a Swiss watch. Sent E-fire back and had a stock crab rebuilt. If wiring to E-fire was incorrect it may have now damaged it. Sorry I don’t remember their wiring schematic.

[busmania]

On mine I have to run a “button” spacer between the efire and cam. Otherwise the efire shaft is too short to engage the cam. Could this be your issue? Is the efire spinning when you turn the starter?

This part
https://www.google.com/search?q=flat...shop=apv&pvs=0

[KiWinUS]

6volt Stromberg wiring

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by KiWinUS

6volt Stromberg wiring

[hueyhoolihan]

latest update on the e-fire distributor...it's not good.

note that this post is with respect to the Stromberg E-Fire Electronic Distributor (6v positive ground) and to a lesser extent the Stromberg E-Fire High Performance Sparkplug Wire Kit.

this comment assumes that the E-Fire distributor and E-Fire sparkplug kit bought from Lucky's Speed shop were the latest up-to-date offerings from Stromberg.

first the distributor...

installing the distributor was straight forward until i found that one of the three bolts that hold the distributor to the timing cover will not fit past the driver's side cap's retaining clip! (if anyone at Stromberg ever even tried to install their three hole distributor on a flathead timing cover they would have noticed it!) it's close, but it does not fit unless one of the six sides of the bolt head is shaved, preferably all six. which afterward means that neither a standard socket nor a box wrench will fit it. and even an open end wrench becomes problematical. i suppose one could source a shorter bolt, but then...well...who knows where that will lead?

to be fair, i guess it's possible. although unlikely, that the three well-worn bolts that secure my distributor housing are not originals and that the originals were a few millimeters shorter and so would fit, but there's no excuse, IMO, for the following...

a more egregious engineering oversight involves the rotor.

every rotor on every distributor i've ever seen has some method of securing the rotor to the distributor's shaft. it usually involves a clip that creates a bit of friction. they usually "snap", gently into place. sometimes a small screw into the end of the distributor's shaft. but there is no such provision on my E-Fire distributor's rotor. and it doesn't look to me that one ever existed. the rotor slids over the "D" shaped end of the distributor shaft, but with at least a 1/16" of space all around it! such that when attempting to mount the distributor housing to the timing cover, the rotor falls to the ground! essentially the rotor only maintains it's position WRT the eight posts in the cap by trapping it between the cap and the shaft! can this be?

so it was not surprising that the car would not start and with an hours worth of work ran for about five seconds then stalled and would never start again! of course, i assumed i had done something wrong and spent entire two days double checking everything, until i discovered that the rotor was essentially flopping around inside the cap!

i have since removed it and am now running and starting well with my old OEM diver's helmet distributor from 1941.

now the E-fire sparkplug wires...

because i could not easily reuse the sparkplug wires on the old diver's helmet distributor, i bought the Stromberg recommended High Performance Sparkplug Kit.

the connectors to the sparkplugs must be crimped on by the purchaser, as is common in most sparkplug kits i've installed (and i have installed successfully a couple of them), and so the boot must be threaded over the end of the sparkplug wire before trimming off the insulating material around the core.

a brief description of the sparkplug wire's construction: the Stromberg E-Fire High Performance Sparkplug wires have 1) a conductive filament core, surrounded by 2) a thin coil of metal about a two millimeters in diameter, surrounded by 3) black rubber several millimeters in diameter, surrounded by 4) a fancy colored multi-stranded nylon braided sheath that is in turn covered with a 5) clear plastic sheath.

and here's the problem...the inside diameter of the boot is WAY TOO SMALL to accommodate the wire that must pass through it, even with a generous amount of the very slickest of silicone lubricant. the clear plastic and the fancy braided nylon simply bunch up as one desperately attempts to push the boot over the wire. why do they bunch up? because the clear plastic outermost sheath is not bonded to the nylon that is in turn not bonded to the black rubber!

i have a suspicion that the boots did fit at one time but only before they added the fancy (unbonded) nylon sheath over the rubber and before they realized the nylon was not up to the heat and/or abrasion it was experiencing in the engine bay and decided to add yet another layer (unbonded again) over the (unbonded) nylon layer.

this accretion of (unbonded) layers inevitably increased the diameter of the wire but the boots in the kit were never changed! the crimps suffer a similar problem, but to a lesser degree.

two eight hour days and about $700 wasted; the distributor will sit on the shelf or be thrown out, the wires are already in the trash, and now i have, of course, no need for the Stromberg 44 coil. all in all a bad show, IMO

[KiWinUS]

Originally Posted by hueyhoolihan

latest update on the e-fire distributor...it's not good.

note that this post is with respect to the Stromberg E-Fire Electronic Distributor (6v positive ground) and to a lessor extent the Stromberg E-Fire High Performance Sparkplug Wire Kit.

this comment assumes that the E-Fire distributor and E-Fire sparkplug kit bought from Lucky's Speed shop were the latest up-to-date offerings from Stromberg.

first the distributor...

installing the distributor was straight forward until i found that one of the three bolts that hold the distributor to the timing cover will not fit past the driver's side cap's retaining clip! (if anyone at Stromberg ever even tried to install their three hole distributor on a flathead timing cover they would have noticed it!) it's close, but it does not fit unless one of the six sides of the bolt head is shaved, preferably all six. which afterward means that neither a standard socket nor a box wrench will fit it. and even an open end wrench becomes problematical. i suppose one could source a shorter bolt, but then...well...who knows where that will lead?

to be fair, i guess it's possible. although unlikely, that the three well-worn bolts that secure my distributor housing are not originals and that the originals were a few millimeters shorter and so would fit, but there's no excuse, IMO, for the following...

a more egregious engineering oversight involves the rotor.

every rotor on every distributor i've ever seen has some method of securing the rotor to the distributor's shaft. it usually involves a clip that creates a bit of friction. they usually "snap", gently into place. sometimes a small screw into the end of the distributor's shaft. but there is no such provision on my E-Fire distributor's rotor. and it doesn't look to me that one ever existed. the rotor slids over the "D" shaped end of the distributor shaft, but with at least a 1/16" of space all around it! such that when attempting to mount the distributor housing to the timing cover, the rotor falls to the ground! essentially the rotor only maintains it's position WRT the eight posts in the cap by trapping it between the cap and the shaft! can this be?

so it was not surprising that the car would not start and with an hours worth of work ran for about five seconds then stalled and would never start again! of course, i assumed i had done something wrong and spent entire two days double checking everything, until i discovered that the rotor was essentially flopping around inside the cap!

i have since removed it and am now running and starting well with my old OEM diver's helmet distributor from 1941.

now the E-fire sparkplug wires...

because i could not easily reuse the sparkplug wires on the old diver's helmet distributor, i bought the Stromberg recommended High Performance Sparkplug Kit.

the connectors to the sparkplugs must be crimped on by the purchaser, as is common in most sparkplug kits i've installed (and i have installed successfully a couple of them), and so the boot must be threaded over the end of the sparkplug wire before trimming off the insulating material around the core.

a brief description of the sparkplug wire's construction: the Stromberg E-Fire High Performance Sparkplug wires have 1) a conductive filament core, surrounded by 2) a thin coil of metal about a two millimeters in diameter, surrounded by 3) black rubber several millimeters in diameter, surrounded by 4) a fancy colored multi-stranded nylon braided sheath that is in turn covered with a 5) clear plastic sheath.

and here's the problem...the inside diameter of the boot is WAY TOO SMALL to accommodate the wire that must pass through it, even with a generous amount of the very slickest of silicone lubricant. the clear plastic and the fancy braided nylon simply bunch up as one desperately attempts to push the boot over the wire. why do they bunch up? because the clear plastic outermost sheath is not bonded to the nylon that is in turn not bonded to the black rubber!

i have a suspicion that the boots did fit at one time but only before they added the fancy (unbonded) nylon sheath over the rubber and before they realized the nylon was not up to the heat and/or abrasion it was experiencing in the engine bay and decided to add yet another layer (unbonded again) over the (unbonded) nylon layer.

this accretion of (unbonded) layers inevitably increased the diameter of the wire but the boots in the kit were never changed! the crimps suffer a similar problem, but to a lesser degree.

two eight hour days and about $700 wasted; the distributor will sit on the shelf or be thrown out, the wires are already in the trash, and now i have, of course, no need for the Stromberg 44 coil. all in all a bad show, IMO

Very detailed prognosis. Thank you. Basically the same end results as I had. Pure junk. Stick with the great Ford distributor.

[alchemy]

Huey, you seem to like installing new fangled parts on your old Ford, when others have recommended to just rebuild the original parts. I’m glad you learned this lesson this time. I sure hope you get the gist for your spindle “problem” too.

[Flathead Fever]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

My concern here is tuning. Without a vacuum signal, How can the ignition timing be controlled for loading conditions of the engine. Did I miss something
Gramps

I'm assuming those aftermarket carb style distributors have mechanical weights inside to provide the advance. My '66 Shelby GT-350 has a factory dual point mechanical only advance distributor. Most of the HIPO Ford engines in the 60s only had the mechanical advance timing, no vacuum advance. It was because when you mashed the gas the vacuum dropped to prevent pinging, but then you were losing power. You didn't want the vacuum advance backing off the timing under acceleration on a high-performance car so on they were equipped with mechanical advance only distributors. They worked just fine; except you had to run premium gas because of the compression but also because of the mechanical advanced timing. I 've never looked at one of the new distributors, something on those new Ford flathead electronic distributors has to be providing the advance so I assume it has weights and springs inside. If a dual point Ford distributor can take a 289 to 7000 rpms without a misfire, I figure a dual point crab distributor on a flathead can do the job at 5000 rpm.

[busmania]

Interesting. If you take the clip that holds the cap on, off, the 3rd bolt slides in no problem. Then put the clip back on. Then that bolt is there forever, even when you take the distributor off it just hangs out in the spot on the distributor.

I did not have the same wire issues and honestly am having a hard time following. I will re read.


Edit - re read again
Re rotor- that’s strange. Maybe the wrong one? I’ve ordered 3 stromberg rotors and all have fit no problem.
Re wires- sounds like something was sent wrong.

I don’t mean to defend this kit but I’ve had nothing but a positive experience with mine. Your review seems a little similar to the Amazon 1 star review that are like “the package arrived damaged” is that a problem? Absolutely but it doesn’t speak to the actual product. In my opinion, you were sent the wrong parts. Who did you order from?perhaps I’m wrong but the wrong size boots and wrong rotor don’t mean the stromberg itself is bad.

Not trying to be a dick but EVERY running problem I have had (and there’s been a few) that I post about on this forum everyone goes “it’s the stromberg, no doubt.” Guess what, not a single running issue ended up being stromberg related and mine is running strong. Your mileage may vary. Oh, one time I overheated my engine massively and the rotor metal piece detached from the plastic. Can I blame stromberg, sure, but their rotor
Probably isn’t designed to run in extremely overheated summer temps. I’m glad the rotor failed before the engine fried quite honestly.

Everyone can flame away, I’m ready to take it as an inexperienced hot rodder that happens to actually think their stromberg is running great. Got My stock crab waiting(that I bought the last time everyone thought my issues were stromberg related…turned out the brand new fuel pump with 4 miles on it was bad) in the wings for when the stromberg actually shits the bed.

Also, nothing you stated says the actual distributor is bad…unless I missed something? Aftermarket parts take some tweaking and refining (new plug boots). Nothing new. I may be a Flathead newbie but I’m no aftermarket parts newbie spanning several makes and over 30 years hobby experience.