Today's Observations

[billybronco1]

Took my 1936 for a ride today for the first time as new owner. Watching oil and temp gauge closely. When I first started the car oil was about 20-25 psi, left driveway temp was half way up. Temp remained at 1/2 the first 2 miles then all of a sudden shot to the top then came back down to 1/2. While idling for a few minutes oil pressure was at 15 psi and temp went all the way up again. Came home car was hot but not overheating. Keep in mind supposedly there are no thermostats installed. Does this all sound strange or should I not worry?

I proceeded to change the oil, refilled with 4 1/2 quart I was over the full line on the stick, I thought this car took 5 quarts. Previous owner was running 10W-30 full synthetic, not crazy about that idea but he was running it for six years that way, not sure I would change now. I might run 10W-40 though

[Drbrown]

Some use 10W-30 (I do) and others maybe 5w-50. I get 70 psi cold and about 15 hot. Temp variation: My OE passenger side temp sensor does that (have a mechanical sensor on left) so maybe its that, or you actually have stats and one is sticking. Can you try an aftermarket sensor/guage ?

[JSeery]

The oil dipstick marking is often not correct, you need to add 5qt of oil and then remark the stick to match. Why was the car not running thermostats, any idea?

[VeryTangled]

You won't know until you open it up, but there exists some possibility that sludge in the engine is taking up significant volume which could explain the quantity reading being high.

[billybronco1]

As far as the thermostats I'm just going on what the previous owner told me, I have not opened it yet as the therms go in the top hoses as I understand and it looks like it might be a pain the butt. Also they seem to be hard to find and not cheap.

I took the car for a second drive, now keep in mind its about 45 degrees here in Boston. The temp gauge went up and down, any time I sat for a few minutes she went up to the top, then as I drove it was mid range most the time. But after I drove a few miles I put her back in the barn, temp gauge was at 3/4 but I could here the coolant boiling and she spit out a little antifreeze from under the radiator cap. Something isn't right.

[drolston]

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For the flathead to run efficiently, it needs thermostats for at least 160 degrees (stock), but preferably higher. I run 170; many recommend 180.

That said, I would leave the thermostats out until your basic cooling problem is resolved.
First, check the obvious
- Coolant in the radiator about half inch above the core.
- Hoses not soft, kinked, or collapsed.
- Correct fan installed and working
- Distributor timing adjustment advanced, certainly not retarded.

Next, investigate the coolant in the radiator.
- No more than 50/50 antifreeze; preferably less, like protection to zero degrees, not minus 30 degrees
- test for products-of-combustion in the coolant, indicating a head gasket leak
- Watch the water flow into the top tank is vigorous at idle.

If all of that checks out okay, suspect the radiator.
- Are all the fins straight, or a lot of them laid over.
- Drain down the coolant to just empty the top tank; do the tops of the coolant tubes look crudded over? Do some of the tubes not drain down? If either is true, you can try flushing the cooling system with a good flush product, but the radiator will probably need to go to an old-school radiator shop for cleaning ($$) and repair, or re-core ($$$).

Maybe report what you find.

[billybronco1]

Hey thanks for all that. I do have a very minor head gasket leak on one cylinder, a few drops of anti freeze sits in the valve indentation under the valve. I used K-seal and it just about stopped it. "But" maybe the K-seal did more than just slow the leak, maybe it clogged up the radiator. I called the company they said it would not do that. I looked under the car and she was spitting anti freeze as I drove because its on the battery box hanging under the floor. Next time I run it I will look at the circulation before it gets too hot, thanks

[CaliforniaBorn36]

Maybe, temporarily at least, hang a cheap plastic bottle off the end of your overflow tube and see how much coolant is being pushed out while driving. On my 36, if the coolant is right at the top of the tubes it will push a bit out when it is driven. Let the radiator find it's level. If the Battery box under the floor is wet with coolant after a drive, it may be leaking elsewhere, I can't imagine losing enough to get the battery box wet considering the overflow is on the front side of the radiator

[nelsb01]

Also, think about purchasing an infrared thermometer. (the kind everyone is using to check your temperature to make sure your not covid) They are available at Harbor Freight.
You can use that to find "hot" spots on the engine and radiator.
It has helped me figure out when a thermostat wasnt working.

[Bored&Stroked]

If after some driving it is still spitting out anti-freeze, then you'll need to pull the heads and determine what the cause is. Could be a blown head gasket, could be a problem (hate to say it, but a crack) with the block.

Keep in mind, that if you don't do that, then you can get water in the cylinder - rusting the bore, ruining the rings, etc.. Water in the cylinders is not good . . . even a small amount.

Best of luck!

[billybronco1]

Originally Posted by CaliforniaBorn36

Maybe, temporarily at least, hang a cheap plastic bottle off the end of your overflow tube and see how much coolant is being pushed out while driving. On my 36, if the coolant is right at the top of the tubes it will push a bit out when it is driven. Let the radiator find it's level. If the Battery box under the floor is wet with coolant after a drive, it may be leaking elsewhere, I can't imagine losing enough to get the battery box wet considering the overflow is on the front side of the radiator

The antifreeze on the battery box is from the radiator cap boiling over I assume, because there was also a little antifreeze on the left fender and left hood vents. Today I'm going to flush the system and also will buy one of those digital thermometers. I was going to buy one before as mentioned by someone else but I could not find the temperature range specs. I was surprised a thermometer designed to take human temp would go as high as 200 degrees, is this true?

Most likely I will be pulling the radiator and having it re-cored. As far as I can tell there is no radiator replacement available for this car as mine has the indent under the tank for the fan. At some point I will need to know which thermostats to buy as I see there are several types for this year.

[JSeery]

Brassworks should be able to provide a radiator, but I would consider the recore first.

[billybronco1]

This morning I drained the radiator and put fresh water in flushed it a little, damn it holds a lot, what is the coolant capacity? It didn't look bad but you could see the remnants of the K-seal. I took her for a ride maybe 6 miles, the temp stayed right at 1/2 the whole time. When I got home I was able to remove the radiator cap (not too hot) and saw the water was circulating nicely. Now what do you think is going on? I plan to flush it again once or twice before adding antifreeze.

And how can I tell if there are thermostats installed with out removing the hoses? What do they look like on a 1936 twenty one stud?

[rockfla]

IF you plan on draining the "current" water that is in it now for more flushing, remove ONE of the upper radiator hose...... at the point you drain the "current" water and you will KNOW for sure IF they are present!!! ALSO it may be "prudent" to go ahead and get you a set to install at that same point IF they ARE missing!!!! JMO

[billybronco1]

I was wondering if you could feel it in the hose if you squeeze it. I'm not sure what these look like or where they exactly go.

[rockfla]

IF your hoses are supple enough you "might" be able to feel around the bottom of the upper hose where in goes into the water pump and squeeze enough to feel it BUT IT is entirely possible doing such "could" disrupt its position and then you might have to remove the hose to fix it!!! You might be able to just remove the top of the hose at the radiator inlet and look down inside and you would also be able to see the thermostats in there!!!!

[rockfla]

Though not exactly for a Flathead, the look is almost exactly the same. Here is a "general" look of a thermostat. It is pictures as it would sit in the hose/water pump outlet!!!! I.E. as you look inside the hose you "should" see the triangle pointed part of the thermostat.

[Zeke3]

The cooling system capacity of the 1936 Ford passenger car is 22 quarts. Ref.: Ford V-8 Service Bulletins, page 330.

[marko39]

If you have stats the top hoses will be cold until they open. Probably won't open at the exact same time.

[billybronco1]

Flushed the radiator a second time and took her for about a 10 mile drive, she ran right at the 1/2 point on the gauge the whole time, a little higher when I stopped for a few minutes. I only cruise at about 35 - 40 mph max, don't have the best brakes. What ever seems like the over heating went away after the flushing. I'm wondering if the K-seal made it overheat??? Anyways on going project, still need to figure out the therms, inferred thermometer is coming tomorrow. Seems 1936 therm is an odd ball, hard to find.

[VeryTangled]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

Seems 1936 therm is an odd ball, hard to find.

[billybronco1]

I'm seeing ones that look like this for the 1936 (bellows type)

[VeryTangled]

Yup, that's similar to the real-deal ones. I don't recognize those prongs around the top. There was another type that had a spiral to open/close the flapper.

The ones in the advert above are modern style stats put into a collar.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

I'm seeing ones that look like this for the 1936 (bellows type)

Unless you are going for a points car I wouldn't use these.

[billybronco1]

Originally Posted by JSeery

Unless you are going for a points car I wouldn't use these.

I'm not looking for points, this car will not win any, I just need two thermostats, anyone have part numbers or know who sells them for a 1936?

[JSeery]

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A 36 is no different than any of the other flatheads up to 48. If it has the same diameter radiator hoses it takes the same thermostats. The in-hose type was posted in thread #21. Or you can use a regular modern style one like shown in post #17. I can post the numbers for them if you are interested in going that way. You just have to decided how you want to secure them, there are several methods. There are several threads on this topic.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ht=thermostats

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...ht=thermostats

You were involved in the last thread I posted.

[Ol' Ron]

10/30 is the right oil, flow ,not pressure keeps the bearing cool.
Gramps

[billybronco1]

Got my inferred digital thermometer today, added my second bottle of K-seal as recommended by the manufacture, (two max) as I still have a tiny head gasket leak. As mention before I flushed the system good before adding the second bottle.

Took the car out for about 10 miles, temp gauge stayed at the half way mark the whole trip. When I got home, not sure where to point the inferred thermometer but this is what I got. Top hoses 145 & 150. Water in radiator 170 degrees, exhaust manifold 450.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

Got my inferred digital thermometer today, added my second bottle of K-seal as recommended by the manufacture, (two max) as I still have a tiny head gasket leak. As mention before I flushed the system good before adding the second bottle.

Took the car out for about 10 miles, temp gauge stayed at the half way mark the whole trip. When I got home, not sure where to point the inferred thermometer but this is what I got. Top hoses 145 & 150. Water in radiator 170 degrees, exhaust manifold 450.

I for one have been following this post from the start and I am "STILL" trying to figure out what you are looking for!!!! I "think" your positive that your car "Doesn't" have thermostat's????? IF this is the case THEN what exactly are you looking for the answer to????

[Jacques1960]

...and no obvious contaminants / debris in the first flush other than K-Seal you mention ?

[billybronco1]

Originally Posted by rockfla

I for one have been following this post from the start and I am "STILL" trying to figure out what you are looking for!!!! I "think" your positive that your car "Doesn't" have thermostat's????? IF this is the case THEN what exactly are you looking for the answer to????

I not really looking for anything other that comments from other that know more than me. This car and its issues are all new to me. I have been posting my question and observations and have got lots of friendly feedback and answers, thank you. More than one said to get an inferred thermometer because my car over heated the first time out. Just trying to get a general consensus from others who have been around the flat-heads and have had similar issues. I posted my temps today which personally seem to be okay with or without thermostats. As far as K-seal I heard from others they had success with it, before I heard that I was hesitated to use it. So just a learning curve me, I have had the car for three weeks and have learned a ton already.

[billybronco1]

Originally Posted by Jacques1960

...and no obvious contaminants / debris in the first flush other than K-Seal you mention ?

It was actually very clean. The guy before me use to run water wit "Water Wetter" in the summer and just used antifreeze to store it, so lots of change overs. But I still don't understand why my flush stopped it from over heating when no crud came out. Today I was curios if by adding another bottle of K-seal to the clean radiator would it overheat again - no it didn't after 10 miles

[Jacques1960]

In the words of that famous Ford owner Mr. Spock, “Fascinating”. Hard to imagine how a flush alone would resolve the issue without clearing debris, somehow freeing a (non existent) tstat, etc.

[Jacques1960]

...perhaps the flush did not remove the prospective debris / blockage, but did relocate it to a location where it interferes less with flow ?

[VeryTangled]

I think we've heard reports of a few drives so far.

Getting used to the scary-not helpful temp gauge will take a while for you to get to know the car. Have you spilt more than a gallon of coolant? Once you've done that a couple of times you'll know more about what's up.

Still the head gasket looms from what I gather.

Keep up the driving. Be very careful with the brakes. Keep some water/etc, fuel, flares/reflectors, and tools in the car. And make sure the tires are up to what you're trying.

Keep having fun and enjoy the V-8'ing!

The pic is when I shut down after an interstate highway run in my '36 in Maine from 2012. I assume it's 487 miles in three days touring because this was right before we put 'er on the trailer. My '35 did the similar to me when I got caught in a construction one-way wait in '18. A guy has gotta have a little fluid with him, and expect to check it more frequently than fuel! If it was running down the road with that temp I'd be sucking the seat cover upwards and looking for a place to dive out of traffic.

Adding... Many times when I park, I hop out and open the hood side(s). Helps the car cool, and get ready to go again without... Dare I say it??? Vapor lock.

[Bored&Stroked]

Most importantly (if it was mine), I would get a good modern mechanical temperature gauge - and truthfully, would probably have one for each side of the engine. Then you'll really know the actual temperatures in all driving conditions.

If you're still getting coolant into the engine (potential head gasket leaks), then that is an issue in that water or water vapor/steam will get into the cylinders and that is not a good thing - as it will rust the bores and and open valves if the engine sits.

So, you need to really keep checking this out and if it continues, then as a first step, you'll need to pull the heads, clean the chamber areas (transfer) areas in the block, inspect for cracks, inspect the gaskets (in case you have a blown head gasket), etc..

There are a few different ways that water can get into the chambers - some easy to fix (just gaskets), some will make you want to cry (cracked blocks).

Good luck!

[billybronco1]

I like the idea of an updated set of gauges, oil, temp & amps. Anyone know a good place to buy one or all for the flat head?

Today I did another couple runs about 6-8 miles each every time I get home I check the temps with my new thermometer, seems to be stable at 140 on the hoses 170-175 fluid in radiator. Also seems the K-seal did its thing, no more leak in the questionable cylinder, yeah!

But I noticed a new issue, when I shift from 2nd to 3rd at a good rpm the engine backfires. Sounds like a timing issues, what do you think? I have been reading about timing, now how does the backyard novice mechanic deal with it?

[VeryTangled]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

But I noticed a new issue, when I shift from 2nd to 3rd at a good rpm the engine backfires.

Those can only go thru the carb or the muffler and I'd drive to limit the times it happens.

[JSeery]

A sticking valve is a source for a back-fire.

[estout81]

A backfire as you described can be caused by a exhaust leak between engine and muffler.

[billybronco1]

Interesting, I have a loose fitting muffler and it leaks in front where the exhaust pipe meets the muffler. Tried muffler tape but it did not help much. I plan to buy the correct muffler from Waldrin in the spring.

[billybronco1]

So I am back on this thermostat thing. Today after a 15 mile run she was only running at about 130 degrees. Temp outside was about 65. Before I buy therms I was wondering if I should use 160 or 180 degree? Also I'm concerned on the diameter of these traditional therm will they fit in the hoses? I found this one on Macs, unless some has a part number available will this fit?

[Will D]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

So I am back on this thermostat thing. Today after a 15 mile run she was only running at about 130 degrees. Temp outside was about 65. Before I buy therms I was wondering if I should use 160 or 180 degree? Also I'm concerned on the diameter of these traditional therm will they fit in the hoses? I found this one on Macs, unless some has a part number available will this fit?

That one on Mac's says 37-48. I've used ones from Mac's for a'46 and they worked fine.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

So I am back on this thermostat thing. Today after a 15 mile run she was only running at about 130 degrees. Temp outside was about 65. Before I buy therms I was wondering if I should use 160 or 180 degree? Also I'm concerned on the diameter of these traditional therm will they fit in the hoses? I found this one on Macs, unless some has a part number available will this fit?

I'm was sure I posted on this already!!! 180 at a minimum. You can get the thermostats at any auto parts store. See post #26 of this thread, the first link post #2 list the part number.

"The Subaru Justy is what is commonly referenced, but the same thermostats are used in several different makes, models and years. The normal reference you will see is Subaru Justy 1990. They have to be retain someway. You can use wires that catch under the hoses and clamps. Or you can double clamp them (an extra champ just above where the thermostat is in the hose). There are several other methods to retain them."

Stant 14157 is a 170 deg

AC DELCO 12T4D 19114436 180 deg

NAPA THM115 180 deg

[billybronco1]

Oh, I like the Napa price at $7.00 or the Stant is $8.00 on Amazon. Here is my concern about running 180, I'm sure you know better though. If I let the temp get to 180, then its a short distance from 212 or boiling over. Knowing these motors tend to run hot anyways wouldn't 160/170 be satisfactory running temp for the engine then have a larger window to the boiling point? I'm sure my temp gauge would be pegged at 180.

[JSeery]

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The hotter the engine runs the better it is all the way around. 180 is nowhere near 212, LOL. 185 to 190 would be better, but 180 is ok. The thermostats are not going to raise the engine operating temp above what their opening temperatures are. If your engine is running around 130 it doesn't sound like it has an overheating problem. If an engine is overheating there is something wrong that needs to be addressed, which does not appear to be the cause with your engine.

[billybronco1]

Thanks for all the help I feel good about what I accomplished today, maybe I should get a gold star. And happy Veterans Day to all you other vets!

I got the Napa thermostats and installed them, pretty nice fit although not perfect so I assume there would be some fluid bypass. I used thin stainless steel airplane wire to help keep them in place. Also I installed a mechanical temperature gauge that works great. So now the original gauge measures the left side and the new gauge does the right side.

Took the car out for a few mile spin and she seemed to level out at about 180 -190 degrees according to the gauge. I checked the temps at the elbow housing with my inferred thermometer and it agreed to the 190 degrees. Car seemed to like its new hotter temperature, ran very well and seemed to smooth out, I could just be dreaming but really it did.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by billybronco1

Car seemed to like its new hotter temperature, ran very well and seemed to smooth out, I could just be dreaming but really it did.

Yep, sounds good, and it should run better at the higher temp.