Disc Brakes V Bendix Brakes-Which performs best??

[Mart]

The original question was which is better. Disk brakes are better.
Is a dual master better than a single? Yes if it is a factory designed unit with all the built in extra travel available at the pedal to make the remaining circuit still work if one should fail. You probably wouldn't have that in a conversion of an existing application, especially one with pedals that go down to the floor.
What is your intended usage? That is probably the most relevant question. Just pootling around the local area? Or high speed runs on busy highways in rush hour.
If just pootling, then it may be ok to just stick with drums.
If multiple stops from high speed are envisaged then go with a power disk conversion.
Do you have a lot of experience driving this truck? Has it actually scared you? Are the brakes in good condition? Or are you worrying about a scenario that hasn't happened and may never happen if the working envelope of the vehicle is taken into account?

If it were an open wheel hot rod and looks were paramount, then sticking with drums is normally the obvious choice. But in a fully fendered pickup then a sympathetic conversion to disks would be unnoticeable and would probably be ok if done correctly. The main thing to consider is increasing the track width. A conversion that has minimal track width increase would be better.

You have the answers to the questions and should be able to make an informed decision.

Mart.

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by aussie merc

not denying that discs have taken over for several reasons cost being one reliability being another since they self adjust

The rear Bendix drum brakes also self adjust, so in that factor they are equal.

[Robz51]

I put disc brakes on my merc and there is a noticeable difference. My reasoning is simple. Do I value my car and do i want to destroy it by slamming into a Honda that has twice the braking ability than my car has? Cars and driving habits have changed in the past 70 years.
Rob

[miniceptor86]

The brake debate! Somewhat akin to the oil debate. Dino vs synthetic vs a blend. Drums vs vs 4 wheel discs vs disc drum combination. The drum brakes on my ‘39 work fine and I won’t consider changing them. Yes it takes a heavier foot as they are not vacuum boosted. Yes I have to think ahead and prepare to stop earlier and descend hills with their limitations in mind but it’s one of the reasons I like driving it. Back to a a more involved driving experience. I like the Armstrong steering, 100 hp, three speed on the floor etc.

[1948F-1Pickup]

I read all the comments on the "greatness" of drum brakes and my conclusion
is that drum brakes have their place on museum-pieces not driven in the real world. I like nostalgia too but there's really no feeling worse than when something won't stop. I've been in that situation and I prefer to never be along for that ride.
The issue is mainly friction material-related and the fact that the main players
in that business haven't really updated their offerings in friction materials used in brake shoes since the removal of asbestos from their toolbox.
Sure, there is Porterfield. I had them on my F1 for awhile. They're ok shoes. In a loaded vehicle application, they don't provide a huge improvement in repetitive stopping that you might want to see in heavy traffic or for elevation changes.
After 25 years of being involved in the automotive aftermarket working for ACDelco, Akebono Brake Corporation and Global West, I decided to design my own setup. This, after taking a close look at Wilwood and some of the other sellers of front disc brake kits.
I didn't want ridiculously huge front discs/calipers, bearing adapters and some strange mis-mash of parts. I did want to use my original 15" rims and not affect track width.
Having already switched to a dual reservoir drum master from a '68 Mustang, I merely removed the residual valve on the rear port and bolted on my front disc, using the original drum hubs. (master cylinder reservoir capacity is enough to handle the caliper piston's displacement)

No bearing adapters, uses original wheels, track width 1/4" less than factory and great stopping.

[Ol' Ron]

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I think application of the vehicle is the issue. Having an old car with stock engine and local driving, the orginal brakes in good working order is more then adequate. However, up grading the power and speed, interstate driving, converting to a better braking system is a must.
Gramps

[tubman]

The stock brakes in my '51 are just fine, thank you, I can lock 'em up any time I want to. Since there are no mountains (an few large hills) in Minnesota, I don't see any time I would have the need to it more than once in a row. I have to believe that it now comes down to tires.

[HD]

Leave the orig. brakes alone, I have a 53 Ford F100, I restored 30 yrs ago with all NOS orig. Ford brakes and brake parts, i drive it all the time, it stops fine, I do not know why a lot of people want to change to disc or power brakes, they must have old worn out systems, I recently saw a poster someone made, It tells the true story, Henry Ford says I did not build these cars to put Chevrolet engines in.

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by HD

I recently saw a poster someone made, It tells the true story, Henry Ford says I did not build these cars to put Chevrolet engines in.

Maybe Henry said it but at one point in time Henry did use GM parts.

[Ross F-1]

Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT

The rear Bendix drum brakes also self adjust, so in that factor they are equal.

No self-adjusters until the early '60's, I believe those are F-100 brakes.

I have totally stock type brakes on my F-1. I've driven it cross-county on interstates much of the way, in heavy traffic at times, and in the mountains where 6 - 8% downgrades are common. Several panic stops. I've never had brake fade, and as Tubman says I can lock them up if I wanted to (with 235/75 tires too). The same brakes were factory well into the 60's on F-100's that were heavier.

In my lifetime, I've had 4 M/C's fail -- every one of them was a dual. Always seems to be the front circuit that fails, and having only rear brakes may be better than none, but not much.

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by Ross F-1

No self-adjusters until the early '60's, I believe those are F-100 brakes.

My self adjusters are installed on a '51 Merc on which the brakes are virtually identical to F100 brakes.

[1948F-1Pickup]

Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT

Maybe Henry said it but at one point in time Henry did use GM parts.

If you work on a lot of different cars and I mean actually fix stuff, not merely doing R&R "mechanical work," you rapidly find out that there's quite a bit of sharing between manufacturers.
This goes on to this day but it isn't quite as prevalent as it once was.

[waynet]

[QUOTE=Mart;2057726]The original question was which is better. Disk brakes are better.
Is a dual master better than a single? Yes if it is a factory designed unit with all the built in extra travel available at the pedal to make the remaining circuit still work if one should fail. You probably wouldn't have that in a conversion of an existing application, especially one with pedals that go down to the floor.
What is your intended usage? That is probably the most relevant question. Just pootling around the local area? Or high speed runs on busy highways in rush hour.

Great reply Mart.
Which braking system performs best is in relation to long down hill braking and urban "slam the brake on" driving. Going up hill is more controllable than going down hill. So are drum brakes reliable enough for more modern hilly road surfaces where the down hill speeds are higher than first gear gravel roads as in the early day's?

[Ross F-1]

Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT

My self adjusters are installed on a '51 Merc on which the brakes are virtually identical to F100 brakes.

I should have said no Ford Trucks used self-adjusters until the early 60's. With modern shoes and hardware they can be added to the original brakes.

[5851a]

One thing I have noticed where disk brakes excel over drums is after driving through deep water but we don't do that anymore. If your truck is stock and well maintained and driven as intended you shouldn't have much fade problem. If you do switch make sure you know what every component is exactly for replacements.

[SoCalCoupe]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

I think application of the vehicle is the issue. Having an old car with stock engine and local driving, the orginal brakes in good working order is more then adequate. However, up grading the power and speed, interstate driving, converting to a better braking system is a must.
Gramps

You summed it up in as few words as possible. Agree with it all. One of my first hot rodding upgrades will be front discs.


Why? In some circumstances they really will shorten your stopping distance. They don't like to lock up and skid like drums. As we all know, when you skid, stopping distance increases dramatically.


Driving styles have changed. In heavy traffic, you don't get to choose your following distance. Driving on the interstate is like driving on a NASCAR track. The 3-second interval taught in drivers-ed 40 years ago, like turn signals, is viewed as a sign of weakness. As soon as you open up that interval, someone with Big Brakes and 4-piston calipers will cut in front of you and use them. I want to stop as well as they do.


Living in Southern California I pretty much have to get on the interstate to go anywhere.


Having read a lot, front disc brakes and rear drums work fine so long as you have a proportioning valve. Most of the braking power needs to go to the front wheels. Riding a bicycle with hand brakes seems to prove this out. In other words, rear disc brakes don't do a whole lot for braking performance. If you already have rear drums and convert to front discs, just get a proportioning valve.

[Bored&Stroked]

And if it hasn't been mentioned, if you're upgrading your brakes, also think about the tires on your vehicle. What type of tire and the contact pattern width (tread width) play a significant role in stopping distance and time.

While some folks like original bias ply tires for looks (stock width), I'm not one of them for a regularly driven vehicle in various traffic and weather conditions. Upgrade your tires (and potentially your rim widths) - if you're also thinking about newer/better brakes.

I remember when my parents first put Michelin Radials on our 68' Ford station wagon - was like a completely different car (handling, braking, road conditions, etc). The same is true on my 32 Cab - I went with Excelsior Radials from Coker -- expensive yes, but a much better tire than the 600x16 bias ply tires that were on the car.

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by 1948F-1Pickup

No bearing adapters, uses original wheels, track width 1/4" less than factory and great stopping.

Would be fantastic if you shared the actual part numbers and various mods you did to create your system. Obviously you mounted the rotors on the backs of your original hubs - would be cool to know what you did and how you did it.

Nice work!

[1948F-1Pickup]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Would be fantastic if you shared the actual part numbers and various mods you did to create your system. Obviously you mounted the rotors on the backs of your original hubs - would be cool to know what you did and how you did it.

Nice work!

Thanks. I did an informal poll and received about 2% positive feedback on producing the kit, so I just did the system on my truck and that was it.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=293628

It's merely 65/66 Mustang calipers, a pair of spacers cut with a water-jet and two caliper brackets I fabricated. The only other tricky part was latching onto the 10 wheel lug studs sourced from Dorman, because they had obsoleted them when the aftermarket switched rotor availability on that GM application to a simpler 1-piece design. (I would have had ARP make up the wheel studs for my kit, if I had produced it)